Australian Tube Products Stem Cap Project

[QuangVuong]

Following on from this thread, there were plans of creating a reproduction stem cap for the Australian Tube Products stem, dubbed, 'The Ray Gun' stem. Australian Tube Products (ATP) was a company that made handlebars and stems for bicycles. In the 1950’s, they produced this stem, which was constructed from a few steel tubes which were brazed together, and a plastic cap which was inserted into the rear of the stem. This prevented users from injuring themselves and to keep water and contaminants out of the stem. Over the past 60 years, the plastic cap was either lost or deteriorated from UV exposure.

This is Imwit's stem, missing most of the chrome plating.




And for a bit of fun, here's a quick model of the stem.




The 2 more important dimensions are labelled. The internal stem diameter is approx ~19.0mm, and the outer at 22.2mm.


The stem cap was drawn up as a model in Solidworks from measurements of an original cap. Thanks to WyvernRH, old steel Bikes, and Imwit for providing the measurements, and Clydesdale Scot for providing a nice vector trace of the stem cap. This is what the final model looks like.






And a section view. The wall thickness is ~4mm.


Here are the primary dimensions. The stem cap insertion is set at 20mm, whereas the internal diameter of the stem is 19mm. The oversized stem cap allows for users to sand down the cap to suit individual stems.


A 3D printed component is printed out layer by layer. The finer resolution each layer is, the better surface finish there is, however, this also increases the printing time. Here are 2 short videos of the process of 3D printing. The print settings was of a semi-hollow internal structure, which saves material and speeds up the printing process.
https://vimeo.com/160329583

https://vimeo.com/160329651

And the completed print


You can clearly see the internal structure here.


The original cap is in the middle. The red cap on the left was printed in ABS from a UP PLUS 2 3D printer(above) at the fastest printing speed, with a semi-hollow honeycomb structure, and 0.25mm resolution in the Z axis. This took about 20 minutes to print. The grey cap was printed in PLA from the Aldi 3D printer at a similar printing speed, and a 0.1mm resolution in the Z axis. This took close to 2 hours to print, however it resulted in a better surface finish.




grantw was of great help too. He has access to a 3D printer and printed the very first few test caps. These caps were printed from an earlier model and gave us an indication on what needed to be fixed. The following pictures are of the final model. The one on the left is printed in ABS, and the right in PLA. I believe due to the older printer, and software, the prints that came out aren't as good as the Aldi or UP printers.

Gaps can be clearly seen, particularly on the ABS print on the left.






This is the original stem cap in a stem.


This is a reproduction stem cap in the same stem. The insertion diameter of the cap had to be reduced a bit to fit.


From a different angle of the original cap


Now with the reproduction cap


After speaking to WyvernRH and old steel Bikes in person, and showing them the test prints, they were happy with the shape. I will be doing a small batch of prints, so if you are interested, please reply here with the number of caps you are after, and colours. I am not certain on pricing as of yet, but once I've got some idea on numbers, then I can get a quote. Of course the more popular colours will be cheaper, but if you're after a certain colour do let me know and Ill try to get it printed for you.

For those who have access to a 3D printer, or would like access to the STL files, here is a link to them. The larger file is the best quality STL file, whereas the smaller file is what I used to print the caps above.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/84nsp1c3mfs3 ... JtL_a?dl=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[hugh stone]

Very nice - I can see 3D printers being very useful for restorations.

[yugyug]

Great write up QV, like the attention to detail.

What can you say about the design of the original cap back in the 50s? I guess it takes its visual style from the 'streamline' trend, but I find its red color a bit strange. They were produced in other colors too?

[bigfriendlyvegan]

I've been waiting for you to start applying that engineering degree to bike restorations. Well done! There are tons of cool retro bits with missing plastic components. Having the original plastic parts, however, increases the value of the part, so the 3D printer will effectively devalue the hen's teeth out there. Be careful QV, the retro grouches will be out there trying to stop you to protect their investments.

[grantw]

Nice work QV. They've come out really well.

[Clydesdale Scot]

These look right.
They will encourage the use of the stems, and the plug is a very good replica.
The story QV has given is excellent, and the product reflects his very high standards.

I have an interest in keeping the old components in use. That means we will often need to fabricate good looking reproductions, which on close examination can be identified as such.
I have been responsible for a few, the Shockstop 'honking' rubbers and the cable bands. They allow the bikes to reflect the components that were available in the day, without substituting later period-incorrect items.

A few days ago I had a discussion with the company that makes these items for me and asked if they could make me a section of a Dare handlebar grip I provided, but in red, to replicate the pattern of the yellow piece left over from the Hobbs build. They will try for me. If it works then I can cut small sections and use them on the Pennine CO2 pump (the Mark 2 version).
To me having the Pennine CO2 pump on the EA Boult is important. A few years ago I bought two of the later models and they were also missing the lever. Good for the spare parts box and the price was right. I already had the earlier version on Dad's Spearman and I can use the lever as a template for a replacement on the Mark 2 model.

The one I will use on the EA Boult had red cloth handlebar tape replacing the original fitting. Dave was consulted on fitting the Osgear to the Hobbs. That was when he saw the Dare handlebar sleeves I had just installed. He stopped talking for a few seconds, just looking at them. After a long pause he told me it was one of his tasks back in England in the 1950s to cut up the red Dare handlebar sleeves and install onto the Pennine pumps. More about Dave and the Pennine pumps is at Classic Lightweights

That surely must rate as Retro Grouch. If it means that the Pennine Pump Mark 2 will be on a bike the way it was originally sold, all the better I say.

One day it would be wonderful if one of these Australian Tube Products Stem Caps brings a smile and a memory revived and retold.

Thanks again Quang.

[yugyug]

It's really fantastic that old, durable parts from 50 years ago can be continued to be used appropriately with replacement parts. It's also an opportunity to reflect on the design of contemporary bike products and their future obsolescence. Perhaps the Australian Tube Products can be forgiven for using an obsolescent stem cap back then, but manufacturers should know more nowadays. For example, everyone's seems to be going crazy for the new Knog bell, but I wonder how it's plastic parts will hold up over the decades.

[munga]

Reading this gives me a similar feeling to that which i get when i think about Chris Howard from Cyclo Retro pantographing early parts. A laser engraver (and his post-processing) does such a good job that you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference unless you are quite familiar with the originals. I appreciate the skill and the passion, but at the end of the day, he's making forgeries. At least your caps are obvious reproductions. People source original components for the rarity and the background story. Buying fakes (no matter what the hobby) is dirty.

[Clydesdale Scot]

Munga,
A very valid point you raise and I am curious where you draw the line. It is always a challenge when you want to use a period item. And we all have our own lines drawn in the sand.
There are many reproductions available to keep bikes going. I offer these as examples of the challenges we face. The older the bike, the greater the challenge.

A number of companies have reproduced saddles that they previously stopped making. Is it OK to reintroduce an out of production model even when made by the same company?
Tony Colegrave does fantastic work using the original stamps when recovering Brooks saddles. It would be sad to stop using the bike when the leather finally goes or do you put a saddle on it which was wrong for that bike?
Is it OK for a Brooks saddle to be butchered by the owner or one of the many cottage industry options of the day but not do it today?

There are plenty of decal suppliers doing very high quality work. Or do you leave the bike with a rusting frame or wrong later paint?

There are plenty of reproduction brake hood suppliers making very good versions, some it has been suggested have access to the original moulds. Or do you ride without cushioning provided by the hoods? But the riders of the day DID have cushioning if they wanted it. Last night I ordered a set of off white reproduction Weinmann brake hoods from Reciclone. The levers are the early ones and they originally came with white hoods. My other options were either not use a part that so closely defined a brakeset, or use a poorly fitting generic reproduction in 'gum' or a black colour with 'Cane Creek' down the sides, or try to find some very rare originals that would probably split when I installed them.
The white hoods will go on the blue anodised brake levers which will be used for the 'Ace Special'. I thought these brakes were from much later, but after researching them they were first produced in 1957.

You mentioned Cyclo Retro pantographing but not Greg Softley who also sells pantographed parts, including chainrings. Although it could be argued that Greg's are better than the original cottage industry previously producing the items. The infamous Polish Panto Butcher's work clearly could be distinguished from the original. But I would not choose it.

The challenge we face.

[maccayak]

I think as long as parts are sold as reproductions and they are of an equal or better quality than the original then I have no problem with that. Can get messy if the original supplier of the part is still in business, then I think approval needs to be sought. Trademark and Copyright laws also come into play. A reproduction in my opinion is not fake, selling a reproduction as an original is. If that makes sense.

[Clydesdale Scot]

but how do you ensure the 'reproduction' tag stays with the product?
Like this story

[bigfriendlyvegan]

To take all of this to a deeper level...have a look at essentialism (or more specifically Mereological essentialism) and the Ship of Theseus. There's also a Japanese philosophical concept that deals with the need for something to be used to fulfill its destiny, but I can't remember the name for it now, sort of like the Japanese equivalent of funktionslust (to throw a German concept in here).

I'll go back to working now rather than procrastinating.

[bicyclepassion]

I suppose everyone knows about the legendary XY Falcon GTHO Phase 3. They made 300 of them, but unfortunately only 658 of them have survived.

Personally, I am gratefull to the folks who are making these ATP knobs, and also very pleased that someone is making repro gum hoods for Campagnolo brake levers, and other similar parts that enable us to complete our restorations.

BTW, is someone going to remake the matching red plastic handlebar plugs that go in the end of the ATP bars?

Warren

[QuangVuong]

I suppose everyone knows about the legendary XY Falcon GTHO Phase 3. They made 300 of them, but unfortunately only 658 of them have survived.

Personally, I am gratefull to the folks who are making these ATP knobs, and also very pleased that someone is making repro gum hoods for Campagnolo brake levers, and other similar parts that enable us to complete our restorations.

BTW, is someone going to remake the matching red plastic handlebar plugs that go in the end of the ATP bars?

Warren

If I have the time, and there is enough interest, I could go into other designs. Happy to take in suggestions.

What do the ATP bars and bar end plugs look like? All I have is this set from Danny. But it doesn't have the bar plugs.

[utedeej]

Good work Quang et al. Although I don't have a n ATP stem, I am very appreciative of the work that you have put into making these available for all.

[munga]

Munga,
A very valid point you raise and I am curious where you draw the line. It is always a challenge when you want to use a period item. And we all have our own lines drawn in the sand.
There are many reproductions available to keep bikes going. I offer these as examples of the challenges we face. The older the bike, the greater the challenge.

A number of companies have reproduced saddles that they previously stopped making. Is it OK to reintroduce an out of production model even when made by the same company?
Tony Colegrave does fantastic work using the original stamps when recovering Brooks saddles. It would be sad to stop using the bike when the leather finally goes or do you put a saddle on it which was wrong for that bike?
Is it OK for a Brooks saddle to be butchered by the owner or one of the many cottage industry options of the day but not do it today?

There are plenty of decal suppliers doing very high quality work. Or do you leave the bike with a rusting frame or wrong later paint?

There are plenty of reproduction brake hood suppliers making very good versions, some it has been suggested have access to the original moulds. Or do you ride without cushioning provided by the hoods? But the riders of the day DID have cushioning if they wanted it. Last night I ordered a set of off white reproduction Weinmann brake hoods from Reciclone. The levers are the early ones and they originally came with white hoods. My other options were either not use a part that so closely defined a brakeset, or use a poorly fitting generic reproduction in 'gum' or a black colour with 'Cane Creek' down the sides, or try to find some very rare originals that would probably split when I installed them.
The white hoods will go on the blue anodised brake levers which will be used for the 'Ace Special'. I thought these brakes were from much later, but after researching them they were first produced in 1957.

You mentioned Cyclo Retro pantographing but not Greg Softley who also sells pantographed parts, including chainrings. Although it could be argued that Greg's are better than the original cottage industry previously producing the items. The infamous Polish Panto Butcher's work clearly could be distinguished from the original. But I would not choose it.

The challenge we face.

firstly, i don't wish to discredit Quang's work. I think he's filling a need for the love of the game, because those caps simply aren't available anywhere for love or money. Well done for having a go.
secondly, Chris Howard does build a lot of cool stuff of his own - the engraved 10- and 11-speed parts come to mind.
in hindsight, my first post sounds like the voice of a crotchety old man with an axe to grind (perhaps it is).

your examples such as saddle skins, repro decals and consumable brake hoods aren't really in the same vein, but then i suppose nor should i be commenting about pantographing.
geoff scott is pantographing his own parts with his own brand, and that's what it should be about.

if you're reproducing a part because it is simply no longer available (as quang is), then there's an element of nobility to it. if you're ripping off something to make a buck, well, i think it shows a lack of integrity.

making fakes is making fakes.
line drawn.

[yugyug]

There's also a Japanese philosophical concept that deals with the need for something to be used to fulfill its destiny, but I can't remember the name for it now, sort of like the Japanese equivalent of funktionslust (to throw a German concept in here). .

I asked my Japanese wife about that and she's not sure either, though we would both like to know. Will consult the in-laws.

She did remind me about "mouttanai" which the concept of never making waste - this fits with the theme of this thread too. There are a hell of a lot of Japanese terms and idioms for such things.

My own take on issue of "fakes" and reproduction, repair or replacement components is that it is utterly ethical and necessary to use products as long as possible and repair them as needed, but supply chains, manufacturing conditions and provenance should also be transparent as a matter of ethics too.

[grantw]

I thought that funktionslust was the equivalent of Csikszentmihaly's "flow", or the engagement in a task for the tasks inherent rewards, not for an outcome. Love of the work essentially.

[bigfriendlyvegan]

I thought that funktionslust was the equivalent of Csikszentmihaly's "flow", or the engagement in a task for the tasks inherent rewards, not for an outcome. Love of the work essentially.

Correct, which is why I didn't use it here, but the concept I'm looking for is similar. If we take funktionslust as being joy in doing what you're good at, the idea I'm seeking is fulfilling an objects destiny by using it for what it was designed for. Basically, functional joy. It's gotten into my head now and I've been reviewing Japanese aesthetics, JS Mills' utilitariansim, and so on, but nothing is catching. The closest I came was beausage, which is beauty through usage (coined by Grant Petersen of Rivendell bikes), but that refers to the aesthetics of patina, scratches, chips etc. On further reflection, the idea I'm after may not even be Japanese and I may have just linked beausage to Japanese philosophy because their philosophy and aesthetic are pretty much the same thing.

[grantw]

I'm with you, and have a vague recollection of the term from something I read somewhere, but I am a Librarian so that happens a lot

[hiflange]

if you are interested, please reply here with the number of caps you are after, and colours.

I'd like one red one please

[Clydesdale Scot]

and confirming that I was after a red one for a cycling friend.

[old steel Bikes]

This has been interesting reading and are really at two minds about what's original and what's fake.
Warren's comment about the XY GT HO PH3 is right. Being part of these clubs and also part of the National body before.
I am fortunate to own a number of GT Falcons that were not worth nothing when purchased. All are restored as where used as daily drivers.
So when is something a fake?? good question that has caused for heated debates about many GT Falcons when the price went through the roof
So here are my thoughts on this matter. Some people will disagree and some might agree. It is still nice to make your bike as original as you want it to be.
You re build a car or bicycle you build it as you would like it and that is how it should be. It belongs to you. (NOT A FAKE)
You then decide to show it. You put it a category that you want it to be judged again your choice. But now it is the judge's decision what category it belongs Original, Restored or Modified. (NOT A FAKE)
Now you decide to sell it as restored original with reproduction parts as advertise (NOT A FAKE)
Now you decide to sell it as original and do not come good with the truth about the build if it is not what it is (NOW IT IS A FAKE)
looking forward to hearing other comments on this matter it will make for interesting comments I can ashore you.

On another note here are a couple of handle plugs not shore what brand
The dark colour one came on a set of later model steel track bars and only have one but would fit into small diameter handle bars
The white ones came on the bars pictured with APT stem . So not shore if the white ones are ATP or not Warren may help with this I have never removed

Danny

Some old school handle plugs photos





First photo as removed

[maccayak]

This has been interesting reading and are really at two minds about what's original and what's fake.
Warren's comment about the XY GT HO PH3 is right. Being part of these clubs and also part of the National body before.
I am fortunate to own a number of GT Falcons that were not worth nothing when purchased. All are restored as where used as daily drivers.
So when is something a fake?? good question that has caused for heated debates about many GT Falcons when the price went through the roof
So here are my thoughts on this matter. Some people will disagree and some might agree. It is still nice to make your bike as original as you want it to be.
You re build a car or bicycle you build it as you would like it and that is how it should be. It belongs to you. (NOT A FAKE)
You then decide to show it. You put it a category that you want it to be judged again your choice. But now it is the judge's decision what category it belongs Original, Restored or Modified. (NOT A FAKE)
Now you decide to sell it as restored original with reproduction parts as advertise (NOT A FAKE)
Now you decide to sell it as original and do not come good with the truth about the build if it is not what it is (NOW IT IS A FAKE)
looking forward to hearing other comments on this matter it will make for interesting comments I can ashore you.

But what about if the reproduction parts are purchased through the original manufacturer? You can go on and on.
Have also been plenty of stories out there about people who make fantastic quality car reproduction parts that have been sent legal letters to cease operations because they are not licensed by the original manufacturer to produce copies.

Anyway I like the effort that has gone into the red plugs, keep up the good work.

[bicyclepassion]

The white handlebar plugs look like the ATP ones. If they are the same hard, brittle plastic as the stem knob. That's the form and shape of them. I have not been able to remove them without breaking them.

The green ones definitely not ATP.

I have only seen them in red, but who knows how many colours they came in.

I should point out that I only assume they are ATP, as they are the same plastic, and the red ones exactly the same colour as the stem knob. And similar mounting, that is, they have a slight taper, and once they are in, they are in for good.

Warren.