1950's Super Elliott

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WyvernRH
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1950's Super Elliott

Postby WyvernRH » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:38 pm

Due the kind assistance of another forum member (thanks Col). This Super Elliott arrived this weekend.
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It has benn repainted<sic> in gold and turned into shopping bike by it's original owner (AFAIK) by adding flat bars, mudguards, carrier and a SA front dynohub. The reason I'm assuming it's the original owner is despite the changes it is still running a double fixed at the back!
All the bits apart from the bars/front wheel/saddle seem original. The rear wheel is Bayliss Wiley double fixed steel with an alloy 40h rim. chainset is a high end steel Williams5 pin affair stamped 'AS' for 1953 and the stem is a Phillpe alloy.
I'm not sure if the mudguard tabs and fork lighting boss are original or done when the frame was re-painted.

Frame number is E48489 under the bottom bracket
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It has some pretty spiffy headlugs and most interestingly Tecalmit oiler points for the head bearings (also for the b'bracket, no crappy flip top oilers here!)
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This makes me think maybe the mudguard tabs etc MIGHT be original if someone has gone to that trouble on the original build.
Has a 'Universal' very short reach brake on the front, tube for a brake at the rear but no brake (hey it's a fixie!)

The pedals are interesting too. I have no real idea what they are, Sheffield maybe? The end of axle oilers are very neat. Anybody know what they are?
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Currently I'm going with the 1953 date on the chainset, given the 'curved cup' headlugs and the general kit fitted. I have a mind that is a racer/trackie that was also required to do daily commuting, thus the brake fittings and (maybe) the mudguard tabs.
If anyone has any idea about dates, equipment, frame numbers, what the bike colour etc might have been when new all contributions gratefully accepted as my knowledge of 50's Oz bikes is very limited!

As an addendum the Phillipe stem lived up to it's reputation, as I undid the clamp bolt this happened.. :shock:
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Richard
Last edited by WyvernRH on Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RobertFrith
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Re: 1950's Super Elliott (maybe?)

Postby RobertFrith » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:20 am

Bummer about the stem. Pedal... the Speedplay Pedal Museum has a few contenders, none with a grease nipple in the cap though. I guess the early Sheffield is the most likely as it came in a few different models. The Philips Credalux is similar but with it's own distinctive cap. The only other one like it is the 70's Rabeneick.
What's the plan?

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WyvernRH
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Re: 1950's Super Elliott (maybe?)

Postby WyvernRH » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:54 pm

Well the plan currently is:
1) strip the bike down and check for solidity,
2) find suitable replacements for the front wheel, stem and bars (Sydney Retro in two weeks time!)
3) de-rust and re-finish all the chrome bits as necessary.
4) repaint/re-sticker the frame,
5) re-assemble.

Point (4) is the sticky one. Firstly there seems to be no-one willing to do even single colour paint in the Hunter area so probably this is going to be a trip to Sydney and a long wait while it works it's way to the top of Star Enamelling's backlog. Also I have no idea what the bike might have looked like. It may have been elaborate as in Mario's example or it may have been plainer. The image I have in my head at the moment is plain colour, lug lining and a pointed white panel on the seat post.

Richard

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WyvernRH
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Re: 1950's Super Elliott (maybe?)

Postby WyvernRH » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:58 pm

Some bad news, I finally got time to strip the frame and found that someone has used a gas welder to weld (really weld, not braze) the chainring to the back of the flange of the drive crank! A quick whiz with the grinder to remove the crud shows that major, major engineering is in order if the crank is to be salvaged, the weld is full penetration in places and is along all the edges of the crank flange- chainring interface. Chainring is a write-offwhatever... Given the state of the chrome on the crank I'm not sure salvage is a worthwhile option. Sad cos these were high-end model cranks. Anyone got a spare top-end r/h Williams 5 pin crank? :cry:

Richard

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: 1950's Super Elliott (maybe?)

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:40 pm

Richard,
I will follow your project with interest.
I recently was the transporter of a similar period Super Elliott for some of the painting phases. It is owned by someone I have known for a few years.
It was repainted to an exceptionally high standard by Daniel Stone (same painter as my EA Boult) then to get the handpainted lining done. Back to Daniel for clear coating. The detail is all hand painted. The lining, scrolls and feathers is done in Adelaide by a trained signwriter who had many discussions with the Super Elliott frame painters.
It is a track bike, and will be ridden on the track
Image

Image
images from Daniel Stone Autopaint

Mario is now back from holidays and should offer his comments soon. Mario also has some numbers in his Super Elliott database.


Philip

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WyvernRH
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Re: 1950's Super Elliott (maybe?)

Postby WyvernRH » Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:33 pm

Clydesdale Scot wrote:Richard,

It was repainted to an exceptionally high standard by Daniel Stone (same painter as my EA Boult) then to get the handpainted lining done. Back to Daniel for clear coating. The detail is all hand painted. The lining, scrolls and feathers is done in Adelaide by a trained signwriter who had many discussions with the Super Elliott frame painters.
It is a track bike, and will be ridden on the track
Philip


Wow, That is a very high standard of finish indeed! I'm afraid I won't be aiming quite that high, just single colour with lug lining was what I was thinking of, assuming I can find someone to do the single colour of course :? .
I will have period parts so maybe the next owner can add the fancy work....
On the parts front it is looking like only the rear rim is going to be salvagable. I've already mentioned the chainset problems but in addition the cups and axle are 'modern' Japanese (and stuffed), the headset is brinelled and the rear hub is shedding chrome like an old collie dog.
Looking like total replacement parts time. Good news is I had a play with my new USB endoscope thingy inside the tubing and internally the frame seems in very good condition. Also found another stamped number '68' right at the top of the r/h side of the seat lug. The numbers were stamped next to each other but 'laying down on their backs' so to speak.

Currently stripping the old paint off to check for cracks in the frame. I've been doing this layer by layer in case there is some of the original finish left but sadly the 'painter' seems to have stripped or sanded back the frame and given it a thick coat of gray undercoat beneath the Dulux gold finish.

Given the colour of the braze and the quality of the brazing I would say the mudguard tabs are not original but are done quite well so I might keep them. The rear brake bridge tube seems to use the same braze as the rest of the frame and is very neatly finished so it probably is original? Down tube next and we can see if the pump pegs look original or not. They look a bit like an addition to me at the moment.

Quick question for our Aussie bike experts. It came to me with 27" wheels. Even with narrowish tyres things were a VERY close fit and the front brake is one of those ultra short Universal types. Even with a tubular track wheel (700c/622) clearances are not massive and I will need to use a short brake. So could this frame have been built for 26x 1 1/4" or is it just a tight track/road frame of the time?

Richard

Richard

silverlight
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Re: 1950's Super Elliott (maybe?)

Postby silverlight » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:20 pm

Hi Richard
Have sent a PM

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singlespeedscott
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Re: 1950's Super Elliott (maybe?)

Postby singlespeedscott » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:37 pm

Posting to watch the progression of the build
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WyvernRH
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Location: Newcastle NSW

Re: 1950's Super Elliott (maybe?)

Postby WyvernRH » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:32 pm

Numbers are popping up all over this frame. I mentioned above that the numbers 68 (or 86) appeared clearly on the r/h side of the seat lug.

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Well on investigating a crack in the paint on the top of the seat lug I find that the '86' is actually the end of the frame number stamped around the seat lug!

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Why would you need the number under the 'Bracket AND around the seat lug? Except for the last two numbers the seat lug numbers are very shallow stamps which would have vanished under the original undercoat IMHO.

Also, it was pointed out to me that the Tecelmit braze-ons in the head tube are unusual. Would these have been add-ons at the re-paint like the mudguard tabs or would a fast, tight frame like this have had these from new? The owner obviously worried about this sort of thing with cap-end oilers in the pedals as well.

Richard

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WyvernRH
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:41 pm
Location: Newcastle NSW

Re: 1950's Super Elliott (maybe?)

Postby WyvernRH » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:56 pm

Reviving an older thread to let folk know I am working on getting this one back on the road. I am experimenting with various paint removal methods and I have used paint stripper on this frame. The paint, especially the thick undercoat has been hard to remove! Unfortunately removing the paint has revealed the reason for the thick undercoat. It looks like this bike was sitting out in the weather before it was re-sprayed and the tubes have pitted quite badly. Odd cos there does not seem to be any serious corrosion internally.
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Still recoverable but will need a good painter.
Another problem is that the forks are quite a way out of line side to side and for-aft. I think this happened when someone squeezed the Dyno Hub in the front and 'set' the forks by eye. Not a real problem, the forks seem in good nick otherwise so I'll be able to re-set them once all the paint is stripped off.
Still not sure if those mudguard tabs are coming off or not....

Richard

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