1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

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WyvernRH
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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby WyvernRH » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:52 pm

Torana68 wrote:carzy to ask I know but I've done the occasional rim , some oval , some crazy shapes and I've always managed to pull them into something usable, I know there are limits but just how bad are these?


Yes, + 1 on this. Dented is possibly fatal, Slightly oval is just a challenge to the wheel builder (within reason of course :wink: ) But seriously, if you can't eyeball it, then it is fixable. I have pulled Dunlop Steel racing rims back into true from slightly oval many times. Having never seen NOS I'm not sure they ever came totally round :P Not knocking your chap but modern guys have got used to the much better modern tolerances in manufacturing.

If you want to get seriously anal about it there are people who can re-align out of true motorcycle steel rims to truth (round and alignment) I have had this done for a Ducati in Newcastle NSW, I'm sure Perth has the facilities. Bet they can do steel bicycle rims.

Richard

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RobertFrith
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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby RobertFrith » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:47 pm

WyvernRH wrote:Yes, + 1 on this. Dented is possibly fatal, Slightly oval is just a challenge to the wheel builder (within reason of course :wink: ) But seriously, if you can't eyeball it, then it is fixable. I have pulled Dunlop Steel racing rims back into true from slightly oval many times. Having never seen NOS I'm not sure they ever came totally round :P Not knocking your chap but modern guys have got used to the much better modern tolerances in manufacturing.
If you want to get seriously anal about it there are people who can re-align out of true motorcycle steel rims to truth (round and alignment) I have had this done for a Ducati in Newcastle NSW, I'm sure Perth has the facilities. Bet they can do steel bicycle rims.
Richard

Does the fact that they're alloy rims make a difference?

Torana68
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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby Torana68 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:53 pm

steel are a lot harder to sort, alloy you have to watch tension more (you wont pull a nipple through a steel rim , well shoudnt) , I feel modern wheel builders haven't done it and don't want to, "sausage factory" wheels are where they are at.
Ill add I have made a set of 28 x 1/3/8 into a 700c set by removing section of rim, re welding, welding all the spoke holes up, re drilling them THEN made them perfectly round....... take that LBS mechanics :)
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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby RobertFrith » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:43 pm

Adrian is anything but a sausage factory wheel builder :-) He's not an LBS, he is a perfectionist and I trust him. I had him check my measurements and cut custom spokes for my Flash wheelset a while back and was very happy with the service. In any case I'll be building the wheels, he's just providing spokes and in this case rims.

This bike will not be a wall hanger; I'm contemplating riding it in this year's Beverley Heroic half of which is gravel.

My intent was to rebuild the wheels in order to replace the spokes and front hub both of which were badly corroded, as well as cleaning the rims. I have a strong preference for using the original rims but Adrian has advised against it. I'll revisit this with him in the light of you guys' experiences :-)

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WyvernRH
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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby WyvernRH » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:53 am

RobertFrith wrote:
WyvernRH wrote:Yes, + 1 on this. Dented is possibly fatal, Slightly oval is just a challenge to the wheel builder (within reason of course :wink: ) But seriously, if you can't eyeball it, then it is fixable. I have pulled Dunlop Steel racing rims back into true from slightly oval many times. Having never seen NOS I'm not sure they ever came totally round :P Not knocking your chap but modern guys have got used to the much better modern tolerances in manufacturing.
If you want to get seriously anal about it there are people who can re-align out of true motorcycle steel rims to truth (round and alignment) I have had this done for a Ducati in Newcastle NSW, I'm sure Perth has the facilities. Bet they can do steel bicycle rims.
Richard

Does the fact that they're alloy rims make a difference?


Ah,should have re read the thread instead of scanning thru the pics. I had assumed you had the steel P&M rims. Now I have well known dislike of period alloy rims for general riding use so, while if they are not much out, yes they would be fixable I would not do it personally. Not so much for the ovality but from possible structural problems.

Richard

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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby Torana68 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:40 am

Id give them a go, but I wouldn't go long distance on them , like daily running or racing....anything old can break but the older things get the closer to end of life things become. Maybe have a display set and a ride set?
"He's not an LBS" didn't mean say he was it was just a general comment on the modern LBS
Last edited by Torana68 on Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby RobertFrith » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:32 pm

I already have a couple of bikes that share a period wheelset, a display wheelset isn't a bad idea.

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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby RobertFrith » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:33 pm

The rim sized caustic bath, there are a pair of 26" rims in the middle and a band of cardboard about 100mm high on the outside. I pushed some heavy plastic into the channel between them and stapled it in place near the top edge of the cardboard.
Diggers caustic was mixed at the recommended dilution of 60g per litre of cold water, I was able to cover a rim with 4 litres. After some initial frequent checks I set a timer and turned the rim over every 10 minutes with a bit of agitation in between turns.
It bubbles away generating explosive hydrogen so the garage door was open for ventilation. The initial checks looked alarming patchy, hence the agitation. Ultimately the surface evened out in appearance after an hour and a quarter for each rim. I rinsed carefully with vinegar and water at ~1:10 and then with tap water.

Image

Satin ano finish as purchased

Image

After; left side post rinse a little duller but otherwsise similar in appearance to the new rim. The right side has had pretty quick rub with Autosol.

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MelodyWheels
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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby MelodyWheels » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:14 pm

I'm lurking here RobertFirth...

What are you doing?

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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby RobertFrith » Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:29 am

Haha... busted! Just tidying those new rims up a bit :-)
I did look into accelerating the dulling of the zinc plated spokes but I think 6 months of sea air will do the trick. Wheels are now built. I'm going to use the original rim tape and tyres for the time being. I've been faffing around with brake cable outers and brake pads. The original cable outers are intact but a bit bent and frayed, If new cable will move in them sufficiently well I'll retain them, I'm not hopeful though. The original Fibrax brake pads are rock hard, anyone know if any of the Koolstop profiles will fit the Fibrax shoes?

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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby Torana68 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:56 am

Originals are reasonable easy to find or did you want something that will work better?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-Vintage-F ... SwGtRX0uMJ

not the same number but they are probably out there ......
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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby RobertFrith » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:15 am

First set of Fibrax's were too short. Koolstop Weinmanns measure up well so I have a set of them on the way.
I am today in receipt of some repro Shockstop hoods, now fitted. Thank you Philip!
Handlebar ends have been corked for safety. A friend thinks he may be able to source some Ohmoid tape which would be good for tidying up the patchy area.
Brake pads and a new tube in the back wheel and we're rolling.

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:46 am

we need photos!
very keen to see how the pads fit when they arrive. (I need the same)

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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby RobertFrith » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:46 pm

Can't do it justice in my messy garage. Photos will have to wait till the weekend. I realise I am also short mod matching toeclips, I'll just put the mismatched pair back on for now.

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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby RobertFrith » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:17 pm

Quick update, still no photos though. I've put in about 50km on this bike now, including a few laps of Kings Park on Friday.

I pumped some new grease through the hubs which were spinning nicely. The fresh grease and some miles have obviously loosened up the internals sufficient to reveal some play in both hubs. The front has significant play. So I'm putting in new bearings.

I found a matching Brooks toeclip for a reasonable price on eBay. It's in the UK and the seller is asking more for postage that the clip. Question from two weeks ago remains unanswered. I picked up a pair of Lapize clips with a very similar look, and suitably patinated, from the retro cycling marketplace. They'll do for now, just need some straps.

The Koolstop Weinmanns fit in the old brake show holders nicely. Retro Shockstop rubbers and cable ties from Philip arrived and have been installed.

If I can get this all together in the next couple of weeks I reckon I'll ride it in the Beverley Heroic.

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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby RobertFrith » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:56 am

A long overdue update on this bike. I rode the Beverley Heroic on it and have done a dozen other rides since, it has about 400km under it's belt since October last year. I picked up a pair of Lapize toeclips prior to the Beverley so had matching sized clips for that ride. I've subsequently bought the matching Brooks clip and reinstated those. I still haven't tapped the oiler port thread, it's the only job left.

It's a lovely bike to ride. The seat post is a tad short but all the same I've found the bike comfortable and fast (for me). The brakes work surprisingly well.

Anyway I finally got around to photographing it. The bike retains the equipment it was bought with, with the exception of the cable inners and outers, rims, spokes, tyres, wheel bearings, brake pads, and one Brooks toeclip. The poorly repaired chainset has also been replaced with a period correct Williams chainset.

I removed the sellotape holding the rear brake cable in place and replaced it with some of Clydesdale Scots' reproduction cable ties. While I was at it I added a pair of his repro Shockstop rubbers. For rides I swap out the original B17 saddle for a modern Brooks swallow. With the exception of the badly rusted spokes I have kept all of the removed parts.

A pic below, the rest in this Flickr album

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:32 am

very well done.

The lubrication point doesn't take the regular size nipple?
Is it threaded or have a pressed in fitting?

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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby RobertFrith » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:24 am

It's threaded but too small to accept any of the oiler ports or grease nipples I have, nipples and ports that easily fit other bikes of the period.

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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby twitwalk » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:31 pm

Hi Rob,
Gulp!! Now you've got me worried! Why do you swap out the B17 with the Swallow? I've just purchased an older B17 for my rebuild which I trust will be okay for longer rides....
Cheers
Viv

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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby Johnj » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:33 pm

twitwalk wrote:Hi Rob,
Gulp!! Now you've got me worried! Why do you swap out the B17 with the Swallow? I've just purchased an older B17 for my rebuild which I trust will be okay for longer rides....
Cheers
Viv


Having broken a couple of older Brooks saddles, including a B5N, I go cautiously with them. They're becoming a rare resource. I've got a modern titanium Sprinter for the odd occasions I do track on my Speedwell Olympic, reserving the vintage Swallow for display. The vintage Professional survived a trip to Tibet, but it's developing cracks around the rivets, so I will be retiring it from rough riding.

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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby WyvernRH » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:16 pm

RobertFrith wrote:It's threaded but too small to accept any of the oiler ports or grease nipples I have, nipples and ports that easily fit other bikes of the period.


Hmm, this sent me scurrying to the 1958 5-star that I am restoring, currently sans paint after blasting, oiled up and waiting for a respray. I realize this frame is from a decade later but it it is still using a standard British bottom bracket casting. I checked the oiler hole and as usual the threads were clogged with old paint, crap etc and nothing would thread in, so I used a 2BA finishing tap to clear out the threads which slid thru with minimum resistance, no new theads cut. After this, a NOS flip top oiler went in first time, still a little tight mind you. So maybe all you need to do is run a 2BA tap thru? I can send you an flip top oiler if you need one.

Richard

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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby RobertFrith » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:00 am

Thanks Richard, I'm going to take it down to a friend who has the taps, I've just been putting it off as it means cleaning out the BB, not to mention finding a mutually agreeable gap in two busy diaries. I have a little stash of preloved and new oiler ports, thanks for the offer though :-)
Last edited by RobertFrith on Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby RobertFrith » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:03 am

twitwalk wrote:Hi Rob,
Why do you swap out the B17 with the Swallow? I've just purchased an older B17 for my rebuild which I trust will be okay for longer rides....
Viv

The B17 is just in such nice condition, it looks barely used. I think it would be fine but would obviously wear with use. The Swallow, which I had, also sits a little higher and with the seat post at it's limit the extra 15mm makes a difference.

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Re: 1947 Malvern Star 5 Star

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:01 am

If you need a slightly longer seat post (ie you are at the limit and are concerned about damaging the seat tube), ask a friendly mate with a lathe to turn you up a section and have it interference fitted to your current seatpost to extend it deeper into the seat tube.
Keep the joint line below the top of the lug.

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