1946 Hetchins Super Special Build

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: 1946 Hetchins Super Special Build

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:29 am

Gordon1 wrote:Fair call Clydesdale Scot especially about a bidding war. Luckily I wasn't involved in one for mine. While it wasn't as cheap as the Gios roadside find it was very well priced for a fully restored frame (even though I prefer original). I won't tell you as you won't be happy.

Willing and eager seller converted this not so eager buyer into an eager buyer when the price was halved from it's reasonable original asking price.


As Hilary Stone noted in the Proceedings of the 4th International Cycle History Conference: "The small makers with unorthodox frames were targetting discerning clubmen with an above average amount of money in their pockets. The unorthodox frames were virtually always the most expensive in their range"
As you purchased your frame for below its market value, there must now be a remaining sum in your pockets to spend on other cycling items (that is assuming you are a discerning clubman :wink: )

Danny, how about photos of the parts curated for your lovely green curly Hetchins?

old steel Bikes
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Re: 1946 Hetchins Super Special Build

Postby old steel Bikes » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:59 pm

Clydesdale Scot wrote:Danny, how about photos of the parts curated for your lovely green curly Hetchins?
[/quote]

These will be the parts that will on the bike when completed as things have changed during the build as some parts did not fit or work due to their design and what I was trying to have them do.

A couple Issues

I was going to 700c rims the GB brakes where to long so Burlite where used but the Burlite levers would not fit the handle bars so GB will be used

ImageIMG_0058 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageIMG_0119 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

I was also going to use round Chater Lea cranks but the gap between the chain ring and the crank is different to the fluted Chater Lea cranks so trying to get he chain on the big the changer hit the crank arm

ImageIMG_4720 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageIMG_4716 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr


Steering

Have no photos of the Handlebars

GB Stem

ImageIMG_0216 (2) by Danny Brooks, on FlickrStem GB Girder

Brakes

Burlite

ImageIMG_0062 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

GB Levers

ImageIMG_1929 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr



Chater Lea Cranks with Alloy Chater Lea Adaptor. Chater Lea Tommy Bar Pedals with GB Toe Clips


ImageIMG_2410 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageCl Adaptor by Danny Brooks, on Flickr


ImageIMG_3257 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

Gears

Simplex very old Clydesdale Scot tells me no info on these I am sure he will update the info on these parts. I will put some info on the gears a bit later as looking at these was not real sure how they where going to work a did not want to mark the paint So did a trail setup n another bike to have some idea how the setup will be required

ImageFront changer by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageRear Changer by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageIMG_0262 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

Wheels

Harden Hubs old Fiamme Rims and 14 gauge SS spokes. If you look at early photos these wheels had sprint rims so had to be rebuilt

ImageHubs by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageHetch rims by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

Seat

Images-l1600 brooks by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageIMG_2621 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr


Every thing gets pulled off to run gear cables and sort the gears out.

ImageIMG_2282 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

one of the stage build photos

ImageIMG_0343 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: 1946 Hetchins Super Special Build

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:20 pm

The rear derailleur is the rarer Italian made Campione Del Mondo (lever) or Champion Du Monde version of the French made Simplex Champion de France. Simplex had a number of manufacturing plants outside of France, and this is one example. The set was purchased from Italian seller.
It is a single pulley and pre-dates the two pulley Simplex Tour de France.
Details are set out in the 1937 catalogue to be found at the V-CC library.
A more comprehensive account of the development of early Simplex derailleurs can be found in Raymond Henry's 'Fifty Years of Development of Simplex Derailleurs' presented at the 6th International Cycle History Conference
(the Proceedings are also in the V-CC library)

The two pulley TDF would not be period correct for 1946.

The front changer is even rarer. The early Simplex rod changers are the Tour de France which preceded the more commonly found Competition rod changer. see the Classic Lightweights page on Simplex and the page on Rod front changers.
Whist there are many similarities with the Tour de France model, they have a closed cage, where this one is open.
The cage is original
ImageSimplex FD 2 by philip.knight, on Flickr

and it does not appear in the very comprehensive Simplex Derailleurs of the World. I have had someone search through without success.
The closest I have found is the Simplex Randonneur (see Velobase) but it does not have the cutouts on the cage.

So it is a rare and very early example, and would appear to be of the period. I bought that from France.
Most suitable for a 'rich kid'.
The Chater Lea round arm cranks were released in March 1948, so a little too new for a period correct build.

Parts for a 1946 build are very hard to source. (see p11 'Continental accessories' of Cycling 30/10/46) There had been little opportunity to design new parts, so most designs were from before the war. Shortages were extreme. The devastation to manufacturing was immense; and cycling component manufacture was not spared. A summary of the British cycling can be found in the 25/12/46 edition of Cycling starting at p534
In addition, there was a deep suspicion of 'continental' practices such as massed start racing and gears. See the article at page 344 of Cycling (23 Oct 1946).
Derailler gears generated unwanted friction (p10 of Cycling 30/10/46)

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Re: 1946 Hetchins Super Special Build

Postby Gordon1 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:38 pm

Damn you old steel bikes, now I think I want Burlite brakes for my build.

Clydesdale Scot, I don't really know if I'm discerning and not many clubs will let me in so I'm not sure what to do with my spare millions.

Where I am discerning (or at least cautious is where my photos are stored) as I won't do flickr etc so feel free to post any of the photos you have of my work in progress.

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RobertFrith
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Re: 1946 Hetchins Super Special Build

Postby RobertFrith » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:31 am

The Simplex front changer you have was made for one year only; 1947, quite a rare beast.

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Re: 1946 Hetchins Super Special Build

Postby old steel Bikes » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:38 am

I struggled with the front changer and at one stage I was not going to put it on the bike. As actually working out how to make it work as it should took some time moving it around but it does.

I have added a photo of the drive line of the bike. To change from the big chain wheel to the small chain wheel using this model changer the chain must be on the largest cog on the cluster.

Looking at the photo the outer side chain guide is so shorter and if the chain is on any other sprocket the changer does not make contact with the chain (IT ACTUALLY GOES OVER THE TOP OF THE CHAIN). Back in it's time it would have been cutting edge for bikes

Danny



ImageIMG_4774 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

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RobertFrith
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Re: 1946 Hetchins Super Special Build

Postby RobertFrith » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:42 am

My 1947 only claim for the front derailleur may have been a bit rash and I should have referenced it.
I originally read about them here
Mark Stevens has a 1947 Gillott with one.
An ex WAHCC member has a 1948 Rossignoli with one.
The Simplex Competition, which possibly superseded the TdF, was available from 1949.
There is a photo of a new one here that dates it as 1947

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WyvernRH
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Re: 1946 Hetchins Super Special Build

Postby WyvernRH » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:02 pm

old steel Bikes wrote:I struggled with the front changer and at one stage I was not going to put it on the bike. As actually working out how to make it work as it should took some time moving it around but it does.
I have added a photo of the drive line of the bike. To change from the big chain wheel to the small chain wheel using this model changer the chain must be on the largest cog on the cluster.

Looking at the photo the outer side chain guide is so shorter and if the chain is on any other sprocket the changer does not make contact with the chain (IT ACTUALLY GOES OVER THE TOP OF THE CHAIN). Back in it's time it would have been cutting edge for bikes

Danny


Now I've never set one of these up so I'm guessing here but looking at the close up on Flicker it looks to me if you could drop the front changer by at least another 5-8mm which would help the down change considerably I would have thought?

I know from setting up other models of old clanger changers (Cyclo, Huret etc) that sometimes what looks right just does not work as expected so maybe not? :)

Richard

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: 1946 Hetchins Super Special Build

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:45 pm

RobertFrith wrote:My 1947 only claim for the front derailleur may have been a bit rash and I should have referenced it.
I originally read about them here
Mark Stevens has a 1947 Gillott with one.
An ex WAHCC member has a 1948 Rossignoli with one.
The Simplex Competition, which possibly superseded the TdF, was available from 1949.
There is a photo of a new one here that dates it as 1947

Thanks for this. I was curious where you had found the date identification.
They all seem to be caged, and marked with the Patent details. Whereas Danny's has no cage and no Patent details.
A check of the V-CC 1946 'Cycling' scans shows a number of Champion Du Monde derailleurs on high-end private bikes for sale. I recall reading that in the early post-war years much of the 'Continental' components were brought back to Britain by travellers to the Continent as stock numbers were so low that they couldn't be reliably sent in volume to the British wholesalers.

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Re: 1946 Hetchins Super Special Build

Postby RobertFrith » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:30 pm

The Randonneur variation
Image

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: 1946 Hetchins Super Special Build

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:26 am

RobertFrith wrote:The Randonneur variation

is the same model as I referenced above
The closest I have found is the Simplex Randonneur (see Velobase) but it does not have the cutouts on the cage


The cutouts on the cage clearly distinguish they are different. The pressings also do not follow the same shape as the cutouts, so the tooling wasn't shared.
Berto in The Dancing Chain provides two versions.
ImageSimplex rod by philip.knight, on Flickr
(4th edition p157)
If these dates are correct, Danny's version is unlikely to predate the manufacture date of Berto's 1946, and with the cage cutouts on the version presented as a 1947 on the Japanese site likely to have come after Danny's. I suggest it was the forerunner of the one found on Velobase, giving a production date 1946-1947.
When I sold it to Danny, I said I considered it rare and likely to be a very early version.

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Re: 1946 Hetchins Super Special Build

Postby old steel Bikes » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:44 am

WyvernRH wrote:[Now I've never set one of these up so I'm guessing here but looking at the close up on Flicker it looks to me if you could drop the front changer by at least another 5-8mm which would help the down change considerably I would have thought?

I know from setting up other models of old clanger changers (Cyclo, Huret etc) that sometimes what looks right just does not work as expected so maybe not? :)

Richard


Richard

As always thanks for your input.

I can not remember why this is the final position as I had it setup twiceand the first time it was just time to walk away. The second time I changed the smaller chain wheel to a larger size and the cranks. At this point in time the setup worked quite well so took all the measurements before attaching it to the Hetchins as I did not want mark the paint.

Looking at the photo and what you have said it looks like it would work but I am sure I would have tried it but can not be certain. So at the moment it will be staying like it is as I really do not to mark the bike anymore than there is on it.

Danny

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Re: 1946 Hetchins Super Special Build

Postby old steel Bikes » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:19 pm

It is complete it has taken over 12 months to get it to this stage. It has been a fun build learning and sourcing the parts is time consuming but well worth the time when you stand back and see the end result.

Great to ride there ae a few bits I would like to improve on if I can find the parts but does really matter. What does matter is everything works fine and handles really well. The bike is a bit short for me so one thing I will chase up soon will be a longer stem.

As I am not very good with words and there is a parts list and I like to see photos. So here are some in what I think best describes the bike I hope you find them interesting

Danny

ImageIMG_4913 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageIMG_4915 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageIMG_4916 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageIMG_4917 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageIMG_4918 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageIMG_4919 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageIMG_4920 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageIMG_4921 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageIMG_4922 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageIMG_4923 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageIMG_4924 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageIMG_4925 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageIMG_4926 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageIMG_4928 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

ImageIMG_4929 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

Last one

ImageIMG_4930 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr

old steel Bikes
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Re: 1946 Hetchins Super Special Build

Postby old steel Bikes » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:52 pm

[quote="old steel Bikes"]I struggled with the front changer and at one stage I was not going to put it on the bike. As actually working out how to make it work as it should took some time moving it around but it does.

I have added a photo of the drive line of the bike. To change from the big chain wheel to the small chain wheel using this model changer the chain must be on the largest cog on the cluster.

Looking at the photo the outer side chain guide is so shorter and if the chain is on any other sprocket the changer does not make contact with the chain (IT ACTUALLY GOES OVER THE TOP OF THE CHAIN). Back in it's time it would have been cutting edge for bikes

Danny


ImageIMG_4774 by Danny Brooks, on Flickr
[

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singlespeedscott
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Re: 1946 Hetchins Super Special Build

Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:13 pm

Looks fantastic
Image

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: 1946 Hetchins Super Special Build

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:38 pm

A wonderful result with great attention to detail.
As I have written before, it is a very hard period to get it right.
It can be tempting to borrow components from a few years later. That would make it easy.
But it would blur the timeline.
An excellent bike for those that appreciate the detail.
Nice one Danny.

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