Going back to the classics

JW0370
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Going back to the classics

Postby JW0370 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:24 am

Hi folks.
First post from a newbie. After many years of MTB and carbon roadies, I am looking to buy a classic steel-frame roadie from the 80s/early 90s. I grew up riding a (raleigh) Carlton Cobra my old man had, and then a Gitane 10-speed that i got second-hand for my b/day.
Anyway, oddly I am missing that 'classic' geometry of a straight top-tube and even the downtube-based shifters. Plus the ride quality of steel, of course.
Getting back on topic: can anyone tell of of any second-hand/classic bike shops in Sydney? I realise most bargains seem to pop up on Gumtree and ebay these days but if there is a place i can start searching that'd be great. Same question goes for Melbourne, too, as i am occasionally down there for work.
Ideally, I am after a Colnago (i know - isn't everyone!) but Pinarello, Bianchi, Peugot and Gitane would all be potentials as well. Condition-wise, it can be a bit knocked around as i would ride it as a 'beater' for a while then start any restoration if need be.
Anyway, apologies for lengthy post but keen to hear any/all advice and tips!
Cheers,
JW

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GaryF
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby GaryF » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:46 pm

Hi JW0370, I like the choice in bikes that you're after. I'm sorry I can't help you very much with a bikeshop that deals with 2nd hand, but good quality, racing bikes from the late 80s early 90's as I am not in the areas you want to target - especially Sydney.

I can appreciate why you want to visit bike shops in your search as there's nothing quite like seeing and touching a bike as opposed to a photograph or 20 of a potential bike purchase. That being said, I have bought bikes/frames off the internet and have generally been pleased but there has always been something about the bike/frame that hadn't shown up in the photos.

I used to live in Melbourne and I used to haunt a 2nd hand bike shop in Moorabbin (southern suburb) called Bicycle Recycle. I don't know if it still exists. It used to sell great bikes at reasonable prices but the prices did start to rise about the time I left Melbourne. Of course other bike shops did sell the odd older bike of great heritage but you had to do the rounds to get a handle on what was around.

My real reason for responding to your thread starter is to find out your size? What size bike are you after? I know condition is not really a concern but the better condition the bike is in, the better you would like it.

Best of luck with your search.

JW0370
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby JW0370 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:53 pm

Hi GaryF.
Yes, sorry should have mentioned sizing. I am 181cm with a longer torso, slightly shorter legs. So would probably be after a frame in the vicinity of 55 to 58cm? Guessing there, of course.
And yep, have definitely not discounted online purchases!
Thanks!
cheers,
JW

Mozziediver
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby Mozziediver » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:30 pm

Couple of other places you might try. Not likely to have top end stuff, but you never know!

http://www.cyclesaloon.org.au They have a lot of repaired bikes, frames, and bits.
And their images on https://www.instagram/cyclesaloonau/

CERES bike shed
http://thebikeshed.org.au/
Got a mid range 80s Apollo from these people a couple of years ago.
They sell "as is" and show punters how to fix stuff.
Moz
------------
Surly LHT, '74 Raleigh 20 folder.

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P!N20
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby P!N20 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:52 pm

I'm 180cm and ride a 56, so you're in the right size range.

We all get misty eyed over the Italian holy trinity (myself included,) but don't discount Australian manufacturers which were just as good - if not, better. Kenevans, Paconi, Bundy - keep your eye out on Gumtree and ebay, good deals come up all the time.

Here's just a few off the bat:

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/heidelb ... 1173332963

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/patters ... 1177974936

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/caulfie ... 1164307062

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/brunswi ... 1177892486

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/heidelb ... 1174736319

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10speedsemiracer
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:31 pm

Hi JW0370. As you'd probably gathered there are a few of us steel-is-real fans here. Finding what you want in a shop means descending into Hipster-ville, at least in Melbourne. There are a few selling classic stuff, but at ridiculous/laughable prices (try $850 for a Shogun TrailBreaker MTB or $1500 for a Repco Superlite converted to flat bar). I think online will be the way to go, or even the member to member sales thread on this forum.
And don't discount the Japanese bikes of the 80s. A high-end Fuji/Apollo/Koga Miyata or even Shogun makes for a very nice ride. My training bike (until Friday night and an oblivious Camry) was a Shogun Samurai. Surprisingly nice to ride, albeit on modern wheels, tyres, brakes and a 12-28 cassette.
Last edited by 10speedsemiracer on Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:42 pm

JW0370 wrote:Ideally, I am after a Colnago (i know - isn't everyone!) but Pinarello, Bianchi, Peugot and Gitane would all be potentials as well.


But they are foreign (with attendant issues with different threads). And from what I understand the top end were good. But they made many midrange models. And they don't seem interested in their past.
One exception is Gios Torino, where they are proud of their past. That is my only 'continental' bike.

If you are from Sydney, read up on the best of the local frame-builders for the period of your interest, then hunt for one and cherish its local history.


have a look at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/retrocyclingmarketau/

but read viewtopic.php?f=23&t=33573 first

NASHIE
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby NASHIE » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:38 pm

Raced a Colnago back in the 80s, but a few years ago getting back into cycling found myself drawn to buying a Aussie built Clamont frame. Columbus SLX, just loved restoring and riding it, and half the fun was sourcing parts for the build, so don't rule out just finding a frame and building up from there. Son is racing a 90s Ken Evans steel frame with current ultegra. While i was a die hard down tube shifter have over the last couple of years upgraded to brifters, and she is currently getting a chorus 11speed makeover. Currently riding a vitus 992 frame i bought but never got around to restoring so she looks rough, but weights in at 8kg and is also a blast to ride. Some modern wheels etc and the old girls easily match the modern carbon gear :wink: . Enjoy your search and build.

NASHIE
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby NASHIE » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:42 pm



Thats a nice frame at a good price

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10speedsemiracer
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:49 pm

NASHIE wrote:


Thats a nice frame at a good price


Actually I think that's a bit ambitious price-wise, but no doubting, a nice frame. This seller is also heavily active on fleabay, as BIKES213. Appears to sell nothing but dismantled bikes and components, have never bought from him (is a bit overpriced) but I know someone who has. Good seller apparently (sells a lot of old wheelsets).
Mmm, SunTour

NASHIE
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby NASHIE » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:20 am

10speedsemiracer wrote:
NASHIE wrote:


Thats a nice frame at a good price


Actually I think that's a bit ambitious price-wise, but no doubting, a nice frame. This seller is also heavily active on fleabay, as BIKES213. Appears to sell nothing but dismantled bikes and components, have never bought from him (is a bit overpriced) but I know someone who has. Good seller apparently (sells a lot of old wheelsets).


No good chromers or anyone interested in bike frames in WA, so good chrome is a win win, as it would probably cost you the frame price to send east for chrome work. If frame was local, and perhaps another colour i would be all over it.

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P!N20
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby P!N20 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:42 am

Clydesdale Scot wrote:And they don't seem interested in their past.


They are if they're trying to sell you one of their current wunder bikes.

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P!N20
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby P!N20 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:46 am

Buy this - Geoff Scott built Conceicao in Belconnen. Ignore it's current guise as a fixie, nothing's been ground off so it's all good:

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/belconn ... 1176491455

Needs some love, but no major damage.

If you don't buy it, I might.

Edit: actually it looks as if the derailleur hanger has been removed. Bugger.

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singlespeedscott
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:14 pm

What is your saddle height? For classic steal bikes and to maintain the right aesthetic, ie not the hipster massive seatpost extension, use the Lemond frame sizing method of 0.65 x inseam. This measurement is for centre of the BB spindle to the centre of the seatpost/top tube intersection.
Image

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QuangVuong
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby QuangVuong » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:39 pm

P!N20 wrote:Buy this - Geoff Scott built Conceicao in Belconnen. Ignore it's current guise as a fixie, nothing's been ground off so it's all good:

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/belconn ... 1176491455

Needs some love, but no major damage.

If you don't buy it, I might.

Edit: actually it looks as if the derailleur hanger has been removed. Bugger.

Mr Gypsy who is selling that bike is working with Kumo, so a dropout replacement could well be an option.
VillaVelo, by the Vuong brothers

Blog: https://villaveloframes.wordpress.com/
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P!N20
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby P!N20 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:10 am

^ Oh right, I kinda know Gypsy from FoA and bought some stuff off him when he was at Gear.

Imwit
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby Imwit » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:16 pm

JW0370 wrote:Getting back on topic: can anyone tell of of any second-hand/classic bike shops in Sydney? I realise most bargains seem to pop up on Gumtree and ebay these days but if there is a place i can start searching that'd be great. Same question goes for Melbourne, too, as i am occasionally down there for work. JW


Cicli Spirito in St Leonards.

And in Melbourne there is a couple down laneways off Johnstone St near Smith St in Collingwood. Mottanai is one. The other ill find tomorrow. does Pony bikes still exist? In the west / north Melbourne area. Probably worth a look

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Howzat
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby Howzat » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:36 pm

Clarence St Cyclery in Sydney sell brand new steel Clamont frames.

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10speedsemiracer
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:45 pm

Imwit wrote: Cicli Spirito in St Leonards. And in Melbourne there is a couple down laneways off Johnstone St near Smith St in Collingwood. Mottanai is one. The other ill find tomorrow. does Pony bikes still exist? In the west / north Melbourne area. Probably worth a look


These are the type of shop I'm talking about, with the exception of Cicli Spirito, I don't know him aside from his eBay presence / pricing.

The Melb retro/classic bike scene (retail) tends toward overpriced low-mid range stuff (have seen $1500 being asked for a Repco Superlite which had somehow become a flatbar, and somehow this bike was sold).

Find something that appeals to you in your size, online or at a swap meet, and either do it up yourself or find a nice friendly LBS based on recommendation, to do a refurb for you within your budget (in Melb this would be Abbotsford Cycles or someone similar). Find a straight, rust-free frame, even better if it has good paint.
Everything else is manageable or replaceable or upgradeable, depending on your feelings about originality.
Mmm, SunTour

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:44 am

10speedsemiracer wrote:These are the type of shop I'm talking about, with the exception of Cicli Spirito, I don't know him aside from his eBay presence / pricing.


Cicli Spirito is run by Ben Kamenjas, an occasional contributor here (under the user name Spirito)

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P!N20
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby P!N20 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:36 pm

Imwit wrote:does Pony bikes still exist? In the west / north Melbourne area. Probably worth a look


Sure does, they have moved again, now on Victoria St just up from Capel St in North Melbourne. Quality and quantity varies. However, Sasha is a great mechanic and has got me out of a pickle on many occasions.

Pedal Cyclery in Preston is another, but as was mentioned earlier, mostly mid range stuff at top dollar prices. I can forgive bike shops a bit for high prices - I mean, they have businesses to run and you're getting something that can be ridden away, unlike Gumtree stuff which can throw up any numbers of surprises and may need stuff repaired or replaced.

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10speedsemiracer
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:01 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:What is your saddle height? For classic steal bikes and to maintain the right aesthetic, ie not the hipster massive seatpost extension, use the Lemond frame sizing method of 0.65 x inseam. This measurement is for centre of the BB spindle to the centre of the seatpost/top tube intersection.


Exactly this, possibly the most accurate advice in this thread. A classic bike needs classic sizing methodolgy.

Also, in your initial post you mentioned some alternatives including Peugeot. A late 1980s Peugeot with the HLE frame is surprisingly comfortable and resilient. I've resto-modded one recently to Shimano 105 9sp with all the bits incl Mavic Aksiums, 28mm rubber, modern dual pivots and brifters, and it was amazing to ride. Has been sold, and I'm working on a 2nd one which will be Rx100 8sp etc.
Point being, there are a few of these frames floating around, like the late 80s to early 90s Avoriaz, and the late 80s Aubisque. Came with either Shimano Rx100 or Exage and good components. Just make sure you get a seat post with the frame...
Mmm, SunTour

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10speedsemiracer
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:07 pm

Clydesdale Scot wrote:
10speedsemiracer wrote:These are the type of shop I'm talking about, with the exception of Cicli Spirito, I don't know him aside from his eBay presence / pricing.


Cicli Spirito is run by Ben Kamenjas, an occasional contributor here (under the user name Spirito)


Am aware, hence my disclaimer.
Mmm, SunTour

uart
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby uart » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:25 pm

10speedsemiracer wrote:
singlespeedscott wrote:What is your saddle height? For classic steal bikes and to maintain the right aesthetic, ie not the hipster massive seatpost extension, use the Lemond frame sizing method of 0.65 x inseam. This measurement is for centre of the BB spindle to the centre of the seatpost/top tube intersection.


Exactly this, possibly the most accurate advice in this thread. A classic bike needs classic sizing methodolgy.

TBH I find the formula 0.65 x inseam to be ok, but right about the small end of my comfort range. This is just from my personal taste, but I find 0.68 x inseam to be around the upper limit to what I'm nicely comfortable on. So my formula for a classic bike is a seat tube length (c-c) of somewhere between 0.65 x inseam and 0.68 x inseam.

BTW. Typically the centre to top measurements will be around 2 cm longer, though it can vary +/- a bit depending on the length of the little bit of tube the protrudes above horizontal top tube part of the lug.


Also, in your initial post you mentioned some alternatives including Peugeot. A late 1980s Peugeot with the HLE frame is surprisingly comfortable and resilient. Just make sure you get a seat post with the frame...
25.0 mm anyone. :D

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GaryF
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Re: Going back to the classics

Postby GaryF » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:05 am

Bike fit for me when inspecting a 'new' bike:

A rough guide, and surprisingly accurate, is to do 'the little tea pot'. I flatten my right hand and hold it parallel to the ground. Why right hand? Just habit I suppose.

What's my left hand doing? Initially waving freely up at about a 45 degree angle - haha. Then it has to hold the bike I'm inspecting.

I place the right thumb on the point of my right hip and then compare the underside of my right hand to the seat height of the bike I'm inspecting.

If the seat on that bike can be adjusted to fit under my hand, and still visually look to be at a 'good height', not too high or too low, I can generally jump on board the bike and be reasonably comfortable.

I've checked this with all the bikes I have owned over quite a few years and, after adjusting the saddle height to give me my optimum bend at the knee whilst riding, the saddle height, when standing next to the bike always complies with my 'little tea pot' rough method of testing seat height.

I seem to always be able to find this 'little tea pot' position easily. Perhaps you could find a similar, and repeatable, position on your body to perform a similar inspection of a 'new' bike.

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