Advice on Hubs

stomach_bug
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Advice on Hubs

Postby stomach_bug » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:02 pm

Hi everyone!

Hoping for some advice on hubs - posted my latest project on the ''post your beauty' sticky, hoping for some specific advice on hubs for new wheels!

Here's the patient, a stunning 1989 Malvern Star triathlete: Image Image
Triple butted cromoly frame, used for about 50-100km a week for trips to work, errands and as a general 'if it's within 15km and I don't need to carry 15kg I'll ride' type bike, often on mediocre Melbourne roads. I'm hoping for it to be a forever-type bike, and training myself to maintain and keep it once it's in a state to handle that job. I'm aiming to build it to a standard that it'll outlast me.

The since the photo was taken she's had a new sealed bearing headset installed, replaced saddle with my old brooks, replaced the tyres with some conti gp 4000 II's and a through clean and re-grease of hubs and BB along with rust treatment on most loose parts. She's riding a treat but there's more to do and I need some advice:

It's come time for the nitty gritty of her transformation: I'm aiming to bring her in to the modern age with an 11 speed silver campy centaur groupset and some new wheels (don't worry vintage nuts, I'm saving all the parts should I want her back in original shape!! :lol: ).

I have my eye on H Plus Son Archetype rims with DT swisse champ spokes and am in need of advice on hubs - I've been looking at velo orange grand cru 36h hubs (https://velo-orange.com/collections/hubs/products/grand-cru-4-bearing-hub-135mm-spacing-11s-1. They'll look the part, fitting the silver/white look I'm after but I'm having some trouble working out whether or not there are other, better options out there that I'm missing, short of phil wood's $20million dollar offerings.

This post has been a longwinded way of asking - Has anyone encountered nice, long lasting vintage-looking sealed and/or cartridge hubs?

I'll happily take advice on my project as well!

Thanks in advance,
'Bug

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10speedsemiracer
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:25 am

Think you'll be better off with the non-disc, 130mm version for that frame :

Image

https://velo-orange.com/collections/hubs/products/grand-cru-touring-hub-11-speed-130mm
Mmm, SunTour

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10speedsemiracer
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:58 am

Or the White Industries T11 :

Image

which also come in silver, just didn't see a pic in silver.

http://www.whiteind.com/t11
Mmm, SunTour

stomach_bug
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby stomach_bug » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:54 am

10speedsemiracer wrote:Think you'll be better off with the non-disc, 130mm version for that frame :

Image

https://velo-orange.com/collections/hubs/products/grand-cru-touring-hub-11-speed-130mm


my bad - meant to link that one!!


10speedsemiracer wrote:Or the White Industries T11 :

Image

which also come in silver, just didn't see a pic in silver.

http://www.whiteind.com/t11



ouch - about AUD$400 for just the rear hub. are they that much of an improvement over the $200 velo orange?

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10speedsemiracer
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:28 am

I've only ever used a White Industries single-speed freewheel. Very high quality component, friggin' expensive but was a build for someone who wanted an uber-reliable s/s commuter which ruled out the cheapie chinese Dicta bits and I couldn't find a Shimano unit at the time. Very loud clicking on coast/backpedal but is still going strong as far as I know (built it a few years ago on a George Robinson frame).

The VO stuff is good quality, and I was also thinking that some of the Velocity hubs would be cool but I don't think they do Campag (just Shimano/SRAM)...

Image

...here's their website if you feel like having a look around :

http://www.velocityusa.com/product/hubs/road-rear-hub
Last edited by 10speedsemiracer on Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
Mmm, SunTour

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10speedsemiracer
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:32 am

Actually, thinking about it, I think the Velo Orange hubs would be ideal. Velo Cycles in Carlton are agents for VO if you don't feel like waiting for shipping. Whether they have anything in stock, I do not know.
Mmm, SunTour

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Thoglette
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby Thoglette » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:12 am

Also look at SunXCD (decended from SunTour)
Image
http://sunxcd.net/hubs/

Note that there's buggerall difference between 10 and 11 sp hubs
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10speedsemiracer
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:56 am

Thoglette wrote:Also look at SunXCD (decended from SunTour)
Image
http://sunxcd.net/hubs/

Note that there's buggerall difference between 10 and 11 sp hubs


Funnily enough my first thought was something SunTour but the Campy 11sp put paid to that. These look very tasty.
Mmm, SunTour

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Thoglette
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby Thoglette » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:41 am

10speedsemiracer wrote:Funnily enough my first thought was something SunTour but the Campy 11sp put paid to that. These look very
tasty.

Very tasty. They claim campy/shimano options for the 130mm hub.

The umours "out there" suggest that the campy and shimano 11sp are so damn similar that either will work anyway.
Image

I've been running a bunch of shimergo combinations (e.g. Old campag RD with new Campy shifters and Shimano 10sp cassette) and some work really well. It takes quite a bit of mismatch to start making funny noises/misshifts - about the same as using 7sp shifter on 8sp cassettes (ask me how I know :-)
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familyguy
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby familyguy » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:17 pm

Campy 11s is 1.3mm wider than 10s according to Sheldon's spacing sheet. Worth asking Suntour if they are planning/making an 11s body.

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Thoglette
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby Thoglette » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:19 pm

familyguy wrote:Campy 11s is 1.3mm wider

Which you should be able to chew up with the lock ring... 8)
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familyguy
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby familyguy » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:41 pm

You'd reckon so. The first gear is spaced in somewhat, so having the large flange might mean the spokes hit the RD in the big cog.

stomach_bug
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby stomach_bug » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:50 pm

10speedsemiracer wrote:Actually, thinking about it, I think the Velo Orange hubs would be ideal. Velo Cycles in Carlton are agents for VO if you don't feel like waiting for shipping. Whether they have anything in stock, I do not know.


Thanks so much for the tip! I'm still leaning towards the velo orange, they seem to hit the sweet spot for looks/price/reliability/compatibility (reading a few reviews).


Thoglette wrote:Also look at SunXCD (decended from SunTour)
Image
http://sunxcd.net/hubs/

Note that there's buggerall difference between 10 and 11 sp hubs


Now these are nice, but at $50 more than the velo orange are they worth it?

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Thoglette
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby Thoglette » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:06 pm

stomach_bug wrote:Now these are nice, but at $50 more than the velo orange are they worth it?

If you have to ask the question, the answer is "no".

Aesthetically, there's no comparison. The Velo Orange are "nice enough" but the SunXCD are almost swoon-worthy (the RD definitely is). And they are positively cheap compared to NOS "collectables".

Whether one can justify spending that sort of $$ is another thing altogether.
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stomach_bug
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby stomach_bug » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:42 pm

Thoglette wrote:
stomach_bug wrote:Now these are nice, but at $50 more than the velo orange are they worth it?

If you have to ask the question, the answer is "no".

Aesthetically, there's no comparison. The Velo Orange are "nice enough" but the SunXCD are almost swoon-worthy (the RD definitely is). And they are positively cheap compared to NOS "collectables".

Whether one can justify spending that sort of $$ is another thing altogether.



Reasonable!!
I watched a vlog today of a fellow with the sunxcd's, looks like he at least had a mechanical failure with them. I'll save the money for some good quality cable sleeves and go with the velo's I rekon! Not exactly scientific but without anything else to go on it's tricky.

Thanks so much everyone!

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Thoglette
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby Thoglette » Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:09 pm

stomach_bug wrote:I watched a vlog today of a fellow with the sunxcd's, looks like he at least had a mechanical failure with them.

One vlogger?
I'll keep my salt-shaker handy: SunXCD is run by an ex-president of Suntour, so he should know what he's doing. Never less, new products always have their challenges in the first production run.

I'm in the middle of convincing myself that the RD is better value than a c. 2000 DuraAce long cage RD, so I'm biased.
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stomach_bug
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby stomach_bug » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:40 pm

Thoglette wrote:
stomach_bug wrote:I watched a vlog today of a fellow with the sunxcd's, looks like he at least had a mechanical failure with them.

One vlogger?
I'll keep my salt-shaker handy: SunXCD is run by an ex-president of Suntour, so he should know what he's doing. Never less, new products always have their challenges in the first production run.

I'm in the middle of convincing myself that the RD is better value than a c. 2000 DuraAce long cage RD, so I'm biased.



As I said, it's not a scientific approach but I can only go on what I can find. Learned the hard way over time not to pay attention to brand names, doubly so when they're expensive!

It's a shame nobody stocks it that I can see online - I'm a fan of having it in my hands before I buy :(

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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby Jonda500 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:52 pm

Hi, newbie post...

I have just found an unusual 5 speed cassette style steel rear hub after taking apart an old chrome 27" wheel I removed from an old ten speed racer parts bike.

Sorry I haven't mastered the art of using photo hosting sites yet, I will have to describe it with words instead. It is larger diameter than normal with weight saving holes drilled (like is common in front hubs). The non drive side has the bearings inside the spoke flange like a front wheel hub but the drive side has them outside like normal (so the drive side spokes are 3mm shorter!). The cassette consists of 4 splined sprockets in a bundle held on by the 5th sprocket which screws onto the outside of the freewheel spline. It looks like there is enough length left of the freewheel splines to screw on a sixth sprocket. The splines have no master spline (one smaller) like modern ones, instead they are all equal. Anyone know of any of these 5/6 speed cassettes available to buy? The one I have is standard 14-28 - I would like a more wide range setup with at least a 32T 1st and would then customise 2nd 3rd and 4th's sizes. (I have seen 40T sprockets available but only in the modern master spline type.)

Thanks in advance for any replies. Sorry for the long winded post and for hijacking the OP's thread...
John

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Thoglette
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby Thoglette » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:48 pm

Jonda500 wrote:The cassette consists of 4 splined sprockets in a bundle held on by the 5th sprocket which screws onto the outside of the freewheel spline. It looks like there is enough length left of the freewheel splines to screw on a sixth sprocket. The splines have no master spline (one smaller) like modern ones, instead they are all equal.


Ok, questions:
1. can you see a brand name anywhere? (e.g. Shimano)
2. how many splines? (e.g. 9 for Shimano, 4 for Sun Tour)

But I'll put a beer on it being Shimano Uniglide
Image (Sheldon again)
If it is, you have a range of options, as it's almost the same as modern 7/8 speed stuff.

However, there was a wide range of freewheels which had one or more screw on sprockets holding on a pile of splined sprockets, so YMMV
E.g. Suntour had three different ones - here's a "perfect" body
Image (Sheldon again)

Photos would be really good. Put them on imagur or similar
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10speedsemiracer
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:02 pm

Would also be leaning towards a Uniglide hub....pics would be good though.
Mmm, SunTour

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P!N20
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby P!N20 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:30 pm

600EX?

Image

Jonda500
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby Jonda500 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:39 pm

Just went out to the shed and realised I have melded two wheels into one in my confused head - sorry! (doing too many projects at once!)
The cassette hub is actually standard dimensions and style with Shimano Japan stamped on it:

Image

The unusual dimensions hub has nothing stamped on it anywhere! Is this a rare hub?

Image

Image

Thanks Thoglette, looks like it's a uniglide, will modern cassette sprockets fit these splines?
John

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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby Jonda500 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:43 pm

Oops - you already answered my question in the picture :oops: Thanks, John

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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby ironhanglider » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:21 pm

Modern cogs will fit on the uniglide spline with a bit of modification if you are keen to do it. A fixed cog will also screw onto the threads, and a 3/32" cog will work with the cassette, but you may need to be creative with spacers if you want indexing to work.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Advice on Hubs

Postby uart » Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:03 pm

Jonda500 wrote:Looks like it's a uniglide, will modern cassette sprockets fit these splines?
John


John they don't fit without modification due to the one narrow (alignment) spline on the newer Shimano cassettes.

If however you drill out the three rivets and disassemble to individual cogs, then its a very simple job with a file to widen the one narrow spline to make them fit. Seriously, I do this all the time to keep my retro rides supplied with new cogs as they wear out. I just use the edge of a regular sized flat file, and each cog takes about 1 minute to modify.

In my case I'm just using them with old non indexed systems and the alignment is irrelevant to me. This also means that I can mix and match cogs as I please (to make custom arrangements for whatever terrain I'll be riding). If you're using indexing however, you probably should mark each of the narrow splines with a center punch mark before filing, so as to maintain alignment when assembling onto the freewheel.

BTW, you don't need to replace the rivets. The freehub holds everything in place.

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