Carbine Resto - Not sure of year?

[scooter1971]

Here's the seat post now unstuck. As its threaded it wouldn't pull out, so had to wind out instead.

It has some lettering that i can't read but tried to photo it below.
Not sure if it is correct for 1950's, does anybody know for sure?

[bicyclepassion]

I have a Carbine, number #12916, same head lugs, same cranks, same AM date code on Williams 3 pin Chainwheel, Sturmey Archer hub date code 6/50. All original one owner bike. Believed built in c1950. (Maybe1951?) original paint. 27" wheels. Details and extensive photos under 'Ride media, retro reviews' Google it. Your chrome bike is a ripper! Warren.

[scooter1971]

Yes, i found yours on that page while searching before i knew what brand mine was and it was the lugs that i noticed, then the emblem made sense. Strangely my emblem is not as defined as yours ?

The cranks etc... all seem original then, if mine looks half as good as yours when its finished I'll be v.happy.

Thanks

[scooter1971]

Still having trouble removing the drive side cotter pin but hasn't prevented some well-needed polishing commencing over the weekend, must be a few decades since it's seen this kind of attention. The chrome seems pretty solid considering the age, worst is on inside of non-drive side chain stay (in the 'crease') so it's hidden away which is lucky.
There's a couple of rust bubbles here and there under TT and back of seat stays but the chrome is still holding firm at these spots, so will leave as is, maybe they laid the chrome on thicker back then? Bit of haze/ scratches around top of seat tube, couple of dents in TT. All in all pretty good for an almost 70 yr old machine.
Some old red reflective tape (indicative of a previous life) had gone like concrete so took a while to get off. Emblem has remains of what looks like brown paint which makes sense so gives a direction for future there is also same brown paint towards top of seat tube.

Strangely, although the chrome is surprisingly good the underlying surface of some frame components (Head Tube and lugs mainly) show some pitting and seems 'unfinished' somehow, having said this, i only have experience with 70's/80's chrome frames so thinking techniques improved over the years?
Would be great to hear any feedback from other 'old chrome frame' owners out there on this point.
Cheers all

[scooter1971]

Update, the weekend here was a bit wet so I tried all the tricks i knew to remove drive side cotter pin... Started with my Local Bike Store's pin press, progressed to a vice (with socket over end) press, then the drill. 5 drill bits, one hack saw blade and a broken build stand later the pin is still in the crank, shorter from both ends but still stuck fast.

Might try the motorcycle mechanic guy down the road next, does work on my old ducati and has a 2 ton bearing press which should get things moving.

[10speedsemiracer]

I hate doing cotter pins but have had to do a few..in the past I had an old ball joint cone or steering knuckle removal tool from the 50s (unknown orugin) which just squished them out but the crank was unusable thereafter. If the crank means nothing to you might be worth a trip to Super cheap. ...

[ldrcycles]

This may not be news to Kid Carbine but I came across an old article while doing some research, apparently Bruce Small of Malvern Star bought Carbine from Fred Walcott in 1926- https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... rchLimits=

[bicyclepassion]

there is a CARBINE branded roadster model in the 1929 Malvern Star catalogue.

[scooter1971]

I hate doing cotter pins but have had to do a few..in the past I had an old ball joint cone or steering knuckle removal tool from the 50s (unknown orugin) which just squished them out but the crank was unusable thereafter. If the crank means nothing to you might be worth a trip to Super cheap. ...

Thanks, 20 or so drill bits later and I'm not far from finishing, unfortunately there has been some damage to the crank so I think it will be a new set after all.

A brooks saddle arrived today, so that cheered me up.

[Millfield Velo]

I've had a Carbine brought into my workshop for assessment this week. Plan is to restore, but no decisions made on equipment spec yet.

https://www.millfieldvelo.com.au/carbine-tricycle/

Early opinions are that it's an original three-wheeler, but i'm looking for more info on age and original decals. Any help from the Carbine experts here would be appreciated!

[M1carbine]

Hey there, was trying to contact Chris Daly to bring him up to date on my carbine which he helped me out with in 97, would much appreciate it if he could contact me please. I tried to up load photos of my bike here but was unable to work it out.

[P!N20]

I tried to up load photos of my bike here but was unable to work it out.

Try this:

http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewt ... =6&t=23303

[scooter1971]

G'day, hard to believe almost 2 years have gone by.
The Carbine was popped in the back of the shed while i worked on a few BMX COVID builds that were getting long in the tooth. (i don't mind putting projects away for a while and taking time thinking about directions for builds etc...)



Back into now, as noted the crankset drive cotter pin wasn't budging so went to the mates 'big press' which sadly deformed the crank without popping the pin (not blaming anyone...), so had to enlist the angle cutter which finally did the job. Turns out the BB spindle (TDC no.9) which i was trying to save, had already succumbed to bearing face fatigue and is unusable. The remainder of the contents of the BB turned out to be ancient dry grease, bearings in various styles of unroundness and metal detritus, i hate to think that someone actually rode it like this.!



These are some of the new parts going towards the build-

1950's GB 'KROMO' Spear Point (to replace the SR Alloy 70's stem that came on the bike)
1972 Brooks Competition lightweight saddle (not 50's but looks the part and will do for now) (replaces the no-name 1970's black vinyl saddle)
Old Stock Gripfast Wing Axle Nuts
New Vee Rubber 28 x 1 3/8



In the mail-

1950's Williams C34 fluted crankset (Same as original but fluted version)
TDC no.9 BB spindle. Cups and cotter pins (same as original)
Old stock chain, looks like it could be 1950's...!
"Old" Raleigh Freewheel to replace Mid 70's S.Y (Japan) item that came with bike
"Old" Raleigh Seat Post nut/bolt in nicer chrome than original.
"Old" Raleigh chrome chain axle holders.

To think about-

Bars are flaky chrome moustaches probably 70's, theyre kinda cool but would like some 50's GB's or Major Taylors or similar in chrome so please let me know if you have something you can sell.
Pedals were Lyotard quills, 60's - 70's and in bad shape so have to go. Looking for something English 1950's in good condition if anybody has something?


Now for the wheels... You may have read how i was looking for period alloys but with a few hrs to kill one Sunday i started sanding the silver spray bomb off one of the rims. Didn't take long to hit metal and what lovely metal it is. The steel is blue burnished and has the hand made 'punch?' marks from the wheel machining process which were filled with bog to make them look smooth. After taking out the filler (big job) you are left with a lovely patination of the original steel rim making process. I have decided to re-use these rims and leave the patern showing. One of the layers of paint was British Racing Green (which kinda makes sense for the mid 50's) so thats the colour I'll go with. I will re-use the original spokes and nipples, could re-paint the spokes in silver to look like galvanised (unless someone can recommend a cheap gal service) and stripping remaining chrome off nipples back to brass.
Original Bayliss hubs seem pretty good after a wipe over and will re-pack before buiding up the wheels.




So the build philosophy is keeping everything original to the bike that is usable but if not able to be resurrected, then the new parts should have been available approx mid 50's, replacing like for like brands as much as possible.

I'm going to add photo's in following posts.

Thanks for reading!

[scooter1971]

Wheel getting ready for painting after layers of paint and filler removed-

[scooter1971]

1973 Brooks Competition saddle, will do until something correct era turns up.

[scooter1971]

BTW, I havn't been able to find any info on this threaded seat post that came on the bike.



Does it look familiar to anyone?

[Tmuir]

Looking at the photo of the writing on the seat post could it be 'Walton & Brown' they were around from the 1920s to the 1950s and I think in the late 40s were purchased by Brampton but Brampton continued to use the name into the 50s.
They also used to make frame tubing that was popular as it air hardened, so after brazing it was actually stronger rather than tempered like other carbon steel frames.
https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Walton_and_Brown

My late 1930/40s Kookaburra bicycle's bottom bracket is Walton & Brown, I know they also made most frame parts, never seen a seat post before though.

[scooter1971]

Thanks for the info.

I've been looking at that stamping for a long time, trying to decipher what it might be.
Yes, i can see WALTON there now!

[scooter1971]

Its rubbed off a bit but I reckon its 'WALTON' can't see 'BROWN' but there are some other characters.
I'm going with this unless someone else has a better idea!
Thanks again.

[scooter1971]

So with cranks and BB out i have weighed the frame, came in at approx 2220g ( on digital kitchen scales)
Forks approx 845g

Does this sound about right?

[scooter1971]

Disappointment.

Crank set arrived today, condition not far off as described.

Description was -

"1950s 48t Williams cottered chrome chainset in Mint condition with fluted 170mm arms and 9/16 pedal threads"

Turns out they are 1962 (ZC code)



Lesson learnt = late night bidding and red wine don't mix...

[scooter1971]

A new TDC No.9 BB set arrived today in good condition.
These new cups are a later vintage to the bike, so as the existing ones have pretty good surfaces I'll keep these and just incorporate the new spindle.

[WyvernRH]

Disappointment.
Crank set arrived today, condition not far off as described.
Description was -

"1950s 48t Williams cottered chrome chainset in Mint condition with fluted 170mm arms and 9/16 pedal threads"

Turns out they are 1962 (ZC code)
Lesson learnt = late night bidding and red wine don't mix...

You know what, I bet they look exactly the same as a 1950 set except for the letter code.
Williams didn't change stuff often after WWII, it meant investing money in new tooling....
Put a bit of grease over the codes and no-one will know.

Richard

[scooter1971]

Yeah, unfortunately they're slightly different between 50's/60's decades otherwise yes i would have made do with them.



Of course a 'rational' person would just make-do and get on with it!...

[scooter1971]

Meanwhile, have been working on the wheelset.

Spokes are to be rubbed back, Penetrol'd then Galmet gal spray which is closest i scould find to original galvanised finish. Nipples have now been hand stripped back to brass and will install them like this.



Rims to be Penetrol'd then finished in British Racing Green.
Also...found British Tube Mills Stamping (BTM) under the paint so will try to preserve this. Here's some pics of BTM cycle wheels manufacture from Aussievelos which fits with the patternation on the rims, great to add this provenance and glad I kept them.




The "...high speed, high precision electrical rolling mill..." room!