What tool actually did the pinning of badges onto vintage frames?

feelthewheel
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What tool actually did the pinning of badges onto vintage frames?

Postby feelthewheel » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:35 pm

A recent post about a Cinelli stem (viewtopic.php?f=23&t=99676) and viewing restorations with removal and re-pinning of cast/pressed badges had me thinking about what tool framebuilders originally used to do this job. I would qualify that I'm talking about the small, rounded-off brass/copper pins and not pop-rivets. What actual tool would fit the pin, create enough pressure once applied (I'm guessing some sort of rivet-type tool) for it to remain in place as well as rounding off the head? I have in mind that the pins before application look like a slug-gun pellet (just with a rounded head), and the tool somehow pressed/flattened the hollow rear of the pin against the internal side of the lug.

And given the passage of time and updated manufacturing techniques, would any of these still exist (and the pins) or have they been consigned to the scrapheap? Every restoration I've seen so far that's taken cast/pressed badges off for painting has either glued them back on or used modern pop-riveting (which looks either a bit naff or risks falling off due to a weak adhesive bond - and some of these badges are super-rare).

Does anyone have any thoughts/images? Or have the actual tool in their collection? Look forward to seeing what everyone can share on this topic!

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P!N20
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Re: What tool actually did the pinning of badges onto vintage frames?

Postby P!N20 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:45 am

Rivet press

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I would have gone down this route if I had found a replacement badge for my Pinarello. Alas, I never found one and used a decal instead. There were no holes in the head tube, so it probably never had a riveted badge to start with.

Apparently the original rivets, or drive screws, are hard to find. I bet the rivet press is a valuable bit of kit, too.

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WyvernRH
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Re: What tool actually did the pinning of badges onto vintage frames?

Postby WyvernRH » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:07 pm

Gosh, that's the cleanest rivet press I've ever seen! Mostly they've been 60 years old and battered.
There is also a headbadge rivet that you tap in with a drift and hammer. It has a small round head and a twisted fast thread body. I use a largish nail punch as the drift and a couple of taps drives it into the frame and the 'thread' grips the metal. They protrude only a mm or so from the inside (depends on the badge) so you can file the excess off if you so wish. I've got a jar of them somewhere, I'll try and get a picture up. These days I must admit I generally stick to alloy pop rivets and fill the hole with Liquid Metal or soft solder to make it look better.

Richard

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QuangVuong
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Re: What tool actually did the pinning of badges onto vintage frames?

Postby QuangVuong » Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:52 am

These are the twist rivets Richard is talking about.
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VillaVelo, by the Vuong brothers

Blog: https://villaveloframes.wordpress.com/
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WyvernRH
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Re: What tool actually did the pinning of badges onto vintage frames?

Postby WyvernRH » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:43 am

That's the one. Here is another custom made headbadge rivet press. Very cool, I might think about making one of these.
(mine won't look anywhere near as well finished mind you...)

Image

Richard

feelthewheel
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Re: What tool actually did the pinning of badges onto vintage frames?

Postby feelthewheel » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:05 am

Thanks for this information everyone! If the tools still exist (or they can be 're-made' - as shown by that fancy modern jobby in WyvernRH's post), what are the pin sizes? I would guess some old and obscure imperial sizing? And can the still be purchased? I've got a few English frames with headbadges that I'd like to make sure look original.

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: What tool actually did the pinning of badges onto vintage frames?

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:56 pm


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WyvernRH
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Re: What tool actually did the pinning of badges onto vintage frames?

Postby WyvernRH » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:42 am

You know, just thinking.... a minor mod to a small size long arm G-Clamp would probably do the job (as below) Just need to modify the squeezing surface with a locator dimple and drill a clearance hole in the arm of the clamp to clear any protruding bits of the rivet inside the headtube

Image

Richard

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WyvernRH
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Re: What tool actually did the pinning of badges onto vintage frames?

Postby WyvernRH » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:48 am

Hey, just found this. You can still buy the tool! The 3" clearance one would do the trick on most frames but they are REALLY expensive!

https://www.rivetsonline.com/solid-semi-tubular-rivet-tools/hand-rivet-squeezers

Also on e-bay when you know what to look for, still expensive....

Richard

PS as an aside I have seen brass machine screws used on some British frames, dunno if they were original mind you

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WyvernRH
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Re: What tool actually did the pinning of badges onto vintage frames?

Postby WyvernRH » Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:04 pm

OK, quick stop at Bunnings on the way home from shopping and acquired a good quality standard G-clamp, They don't have 'long' clamps in stock but this one reaches at least just past half way on all the frames I tried it on twixt 22" and 23.5". Cost $11.00.
Ten minutes work with an angle grinder and drill and we have a headset rivet press. Not something I'd want to use putting 5000 rivets into an aircraft but for two rivets occasionally it works fine. I did a quick test with a bit of tin as a dummy head badge and a scrap frame tube and it worked well. May need a recess in the anvil for thinner badges/tubing.

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Go make one!

Richard

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