Watch Out for Bad Second Hand Carbon Fibre

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Watch Out for Bad Second Hand Carbon Fibre

Postby AUbicycles » Wed May 29, 2013 10:12 pm

This is a general warning as I look into a specific sale.

The title says it all - a second hand carbon fibre bike (or gear) needs to be a well considered purchase and you NEED to inspect for peace of mind.

If you are selling carbon fibre gear, a frame or a complete bike be honest in your description if there has been any damage or an accident. Not only is it fraudulent if a defect or damage is not disclosed (on any thing sold here actually) but the nature of carbon fibre and the way that it fails tends to be sudden and 'explosive' so that knowing selling a damaged or cracked carbon fibre gear can put the safety of the buyer at risk.

For bargin hunters - go the extra yard to check it out or get it professionally checked.
If you have serious suspicions about any equipment being offered for sale here, you can report the post (for moderater consideration) or PM me.

For genuine sellers who do the right thing, keep up the good work!
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by BNA » Thu May 30, 2013 12:56 pm

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Re: Watch Out for Bad Second Hand Carbon Fibre

Postby sumgy » Thu May 30, 2013 12:56 pm

Admin,
While agreeing whole heartedly that you need to be careful and check your potential purchase throughly, I do not believe that there is anyone in Australia capable of "professionally" checking your potential purchase.

It is definitely a case of Buyer Beware.
I would certainly be checking out the seller just as much as the merchandise.

Just my 2c worth.
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Re: Watch Out for Bad Second Hand Carbon Fibre

Postby trailgumby » Thu May 30, 2013 1:20 pm

http://carbonbikerepair.com.au/

These guys are certified by the Department of Aviation:

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Re: Watch Out for Bad Second Hand Carbon Fibre

Postby m@ » Thu May 30, 2013 2:02 pm

trailgumby wrote:http://carbonbikerepair.com.au/

These guys are certified by the Department of Aviation:

Well, that's odd... the certificate is dated 1994, but the Department of Aviation only existed until 1987. I guess Transport probably kept using the same paperwork to save on stationery...
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Re: Watch Out for Bad Second Hand Carbon Fibre

Postby sumgy » Thu May 30, 2013 7:40 pm

trailgumby wrote:http://carbonbikerepair.com.au/

These guys are certified by the Department of Aviation:

Image


Well I will put it this way.
There is nobody I would trust to inspect a frame for me and I am doubtful there is anyone who will guarantee a 2nd hand bike frame for you and back it up in any way.
I am also unconvinced that there is any correlation between the use of CF in aircraft and bicycle frames.
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Re: Watch Out for Bad Second Hand Carbon Fibre

Postby Puffy » Fri May 31, 2013 10:36 am

All they'll be doing is xraying for cracks.
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Re: Watch Out for Bad Second Hand Carbon Fibre

Postby trailgumby » Fri May 31, 2013 2:07 pm

Ultrasound, actually.

But good point about the currency (or lack thereof) of the certificate in the image. :?

Would be worth confirming he still holds current tester's certification.

Bottom line, he is still at least one level above everybody else in the bike composites industry in Oz.
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Re: Watch Out for Bad Second Hand Carbon Fibre

Postby sumgy » Fri May 31, 2013 11:09 pm

trailgumby wrote:Bottom line, he is still at least one level above everybody else in the bike composites industry in Oz.


What is the level above completely and utterly useless??
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Re: Watch Out for Bad Second Hand Carbon Fibre

Postby toolonglegs » Fri May 31, 2013 11:52 pm

It isn't rocket science... don't buy it over the internet if you can look at it personally, if you know nothing about bikes take someone along who does.
There is always a risk with 2nd hand but 99% ( or more ) faults can be found with a good inspection and test ride.
I take it Chris is referring to a case where someone bought a frame on here with out viewing it?.
The same can be said for alloy and to a lesser extent steel.
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Re: Watch Out for Bad Second Hand Carbon Fibre

Postby QuangVuong » Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:25 am

I bought both my vintage carbon frames online with no 1st hand viewing. I took the seller's word for it, and so far its been alright. I guess it really is up to the seller to let the buyer know of faults.
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Re: Watch Out for Bad Second Hand Carbon Fibre

Postby LinzOC » Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:51 am

sumgy wrote:
trailgumby wrote:http://carbonbikerepair.com.au/

These guys are certified by the Department of Aviation:

Image


Well I will put it this way.
There is nobody I would trust to inspect a frame for me and I am doubtful there is anyone who will guarantee a 2nd hand bike frame for you and back it up in any way.
I am also unconvinced that there is any correlation between the use of CF in aircraft and bicycle frames.


Date isn't an issue; there are enough NDT qualified people who are ex-military involved in the aviation industry. Just look at the ARH / MRH / F-111 / Hawk / Hornet. All use CF to some extent.

As for the latter, there isn't very much difference between a my Foil and my helicopters - none as far as an NDI tech is concerned.
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Re: Watch Out for Bad Second Hand Carbon Fibre

Postby AUbicycles » Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:36 pm

Most people are honest and I have seen it here where a seller as specifically discloses a frames history i.e. crashes. If a buyer understands this and buys then this is fair - a fair transfer of responsibility. However some people knowingly exclude this information, and I recently became aware of such a case and believe I removed the classified before a sale was completed.

I admit that even with a new carbon fibre bike, particularly of the weight weenie sort, there can also be risks though at least the shop or brand is a direct point of contact. This aside, if you are skilled then a personal inspection is worthwhile or if you are newer to cycling, take along an experience friend or even see if a bike shop can inspect - this will at least give you a fair indication as to the quality, if there are significant issues (ie. previous damage has been spotted or replacement gear will be required) then the shop can tell you.

Firstly it is about disappointment and buyer expectations.
Secondly it is about personal safety - and preventing accidents.
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Re: Watch Out for Bad Second Hand Carbon Fibre

Postby trek52 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:50 am

How about watch out for cracked rims or bent steel etc etc. This looks like just another post taking a swipe at carbon fibre and placing negativity on anyone trying to sell their carbon frame.
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Re: Watch Out for Bad Second Hand Carbon Fibre

Postby bunchridefinder » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:12 pm

trek52 wrote:How about watch out for cracked rims or bent steel etc etc. This looks like just another post taking a swipe at carbon fibre and placing negativity on anyone trying to sell their carbon frame.


What about buying second hand Knicks? you should get them professionally checked too as you just can't be sure that they are safe for use, even if the person says they are.

I recommend going to the local forensic scientist in your local area and asking if you can use their blue wand.

You just can't be too sure.
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Re: Watch Out for Bad Second Hand Carbon Fibre

Postby AUbicycles » Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:57 pm

trek52 - this is not the intention - infact, read the original post again (and not just the title).
Carbon Fibre is still relatively new and even for experienced cyclists who will know what to look out for on a steel or aluminium bikes, carbon fibre doesn't receal itself in the same way - hence the caution. The Bicycles Nework Australia Market Place is not a commercial classified - and still is a member to member area, so my personal interest is that buyers and sellers both get a great deal and we can avoid disappointment.
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Re: Watch Out for Bad Second Hand Carbon Fibre

Postby QuangVuong » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:08 pm

trek52 wrote:How about watch out for cracked rims or bent steel etc etc. This looks like just another post taking a swipe at carbon fibre and placing negativity on anyone trying to sell their carbon frame.


I bought a wheelset perfectly knowing that they were cracked. Here are the signs, of bumps and cracks. I have ridden about 100km on these without issues, and will continue til they break. 25 year old carbon frame with holes drilled in the top tube, all running on a pair of cracking rims 8)
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Re: Watch Out for Bad Second Hand Carbon Fibre

Postby AUbicycles » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:59 pm

There we have it - you knew of the condition and that is fine.
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Re: Watch Out for Bad Second Hand Carbon Fibre

Postby alex » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:25 pm

there is a steel frame in the classifieds section right now which is perfect for this thread

steel is a type of carbon
if i get killed while out on my bike i dont want a 'memorial ride' by random punters i have never met.
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Re: Watch Out for Bad Second Hand Carbon Fibre

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:37 pm

:shock: No, steel is an iron/carbon alloy. Just a little different.
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