Help Converting my Europa into a Fixie

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Help Converting my Europa into a Fixie

Postby tobyt » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:29 pm

Hey guys, First time making a fixed wheel would love any tips or probs i may run into when building.

Here is the frame
Image
Image
Image

HELP!
what type of BB thread is this?
Will a 700c wheel fit into this 27" frame, will i have probs matching up the crank cog with the rear cog? (if that makes sense)
Do the kind of drop outs matter with a fixie?
will most of the old stems fit or do they come with different diameters?

I have designed replica Europa stickers for this bike. ill let you know how they go if anyone else needs some.

Cheers guys!
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by BNA » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:59 pm

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Re: HELP CONVERTING MY EUROPA INTO A FIXIE!

Postby spirito » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:59 pm

tobyt wrote:Hey guys, First time making a fixed wheel would love any tips or probs i may run into when building.

Here is the frame
Image
Image
Image

HELP!
what type of BB thread is this?
Will a 700c wheel fit into this 27" frame, will i have probs matching up the crank cog with the rear cog? (if that makes sense)
Do the kind of drop outs matter with a fixie?
will most of the old stems fit or do they come with different diameters?

I have designed replica Europa stickers for this bike. ill let you know how they go if anyone else needs some.

Cheers guys!


Ahhh, young Grasshopper .... Your new to you frameset isn't a Europa. :shock: It just has a few Europa stickers on it. It's actually much cooler !!! No disrespect to John Abeni & Co, they have made many fine bikes and indeed my first propper race bike was a Europa. I saw this auction and thought to post about it on the retro forum but figured it would only beat up the price for the eventual buyer (You !!).

Those lugs are very distinct and inimitably Carlton. Known as Capella lugs they were introduced in 1959 and used on a few models up until 1965. Scroll down on the following link ... http://www.carltoncycles.me.uk/details/lugwork.htm

I am about 99.9 percent sure that your frame is an early 60's Carlton going by the dropouts, fork crown and other small details. Carlton didn't offer these lugs to other builders or Marques except Raleigh as they became the owners of Carlton, and they used the Capella lugs for the 1973 Raleigh International (scroll down) http://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroraleighs/international.html Your frame isn't a Raleigh International ... they had a Wagner crown, forged Campagnolo 1010 drop outs and they only came in the Champagne colour >>> which is the same as an early 70's Holden Antelope Beige Metallic ... that's the colour I painted my girlfriends bike :mrgreen:

So scrap your Europa decals and give Nick at Lloyds in the UK a call about which decals would suit the era of your frame ... http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/nick_at_lloyds/decals.htm Keep in mind the original Waterslide decals can be tricky to apply, perhaps opt for the vinyl cut stickers (which they also have) as they are just peel and stick. I'm no expert on Carlton's but the models that came with these lugs were the Catalina, Clubman, Continental and Constellation. I'm sure someone more familiar with the marque may be able to help identify which one. My guesstimate is that it's a lower line model as it has no derailleur hanger and pressed steel drop-outs. It's not a Constellation or Catalina ... probably a Clubman. Still very nice, very cool and loads of cache. Collectable.

The BB is standard (British thread = 1.370" x 24tpi with a 68mm wide shell).
Your crank type and hub spacing will dictate what chainline you'll have and what width bb axle will suit. It's not rocket surgery but it can be confusing with lots of different terms and just as much misinformation. Setting up your Carlton as a fixie won't be too much trouble ... check the following link as a general primer http://www.sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html and ask a lots of questions in the fixed/single forum.

27" wheels have a diameter of 630mm. 700c wheels have a diameter of 622mm. Effectively there is no issue with fitting 700c wheels except that if you use a brake you'll need a little more drop or reach (4mm) for the brake pads to reach the rims. Most old school brakes will have enough reach just clean them up and use modern housing and cable and if you can use modern brake shoes/pads then braking will be much better too. It's just a bit of fudging around to find what works best.

Lastly, any quill type stem should be fine. The inserted portion is 22.2mm and is for the most part standard except for some french bikes and a few oddities.

So there ... Congrats on your new Carlton !!!!!!!! It's a great score ... especially for the price you paid. Fixed is cool and easy to setup with most any parts, maybe one day you'll think about running with some original era parts and gears so don't go painting it flouro or messing with it. The paint looks pretty original, keep it the way it is and know that it's a classic (and original = $'s). Spray inside the tubes with some fish oil or similar type rust preventative, keep the paint clean and give it a good coat of car wax. Enjoy :wink:

Ohh ... here's a link to an original 1959 Carlton Clubman so you have an idea of what your frameset would have in terms of parts when original http://www.carltoncycles.me.uk/mybikes/59clubman.htm
Cranky Jim wrote: God did not invent gears. Men invented gears ... because we are not gods.
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Re: HELP CONVERTING MY EUROPA INTO A FIXIE!

Postby tobyt » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:16 am

I think i stopped breathing for a second then! :oops:

How can i thank you enough!

I have always loved fancy lug work which is the only reason why i bought this frame. I thought for sure people on the forum would have seen it as that guy from ebay is semi-constant with his nice frames. Thank you for keeping it on the lowdown.

Now onto my NEW CARLROPA bike!!!

CARLTON... I have never heard of them for good reason, i was born 20 years later! Thank you so much for posting this its so interesting knowing about it. EVEN MORE interesting as its not a frame from my local Kensington bike shop.

You should see my face even 15mins after reading your reply i still have a :D on my face (im so lame)

You shot me in the foot when you said dont paint it fluro. Thats exactly what i was going to do, C'MON it was going to be a fixie. My second choice was GOLD.

The 1959 clubman has the EXACT lug work. I had a look at my frame and couldnt see any remains of the Clubman branding :cry:

I think i will take your advice leave it with the original brown + car polish and get some cooool wood grain wheels! 8)

Image

The Williams chain rings look cool
Image
Could you attach those to a newaged crank art?

I will email Nick at Lloyds very shortley, he has sooo many stickers.Can i ask how you know this abundance of info?

ONCE AGAIN THANK YOU!! (not happy about spending a whole day on Adobe creating my Europa stickers!)

P.S. I wonder if the guy from ebay reads this forum?
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Re: HELP CONVERTING MY EUROPA INTO A FIXIE!

Postby tobyt » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:32 am

Acording to http://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroraleig ... ional.html

It says the 1970 international came in BRONZE.

My bad different lug work (im getting carried away)
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Re: HELP CONVERTING MY EUROPA INTO A FIXIE!

Postby spirito » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:04 pm

tobyt wrote:Acording to http://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroraleig ... ional.html

It says the 1970 international came in BRONZE.

My bad different lug work (im getting carried away)



1973 ... as mentioned above. Different animal ... same lugs but different crown, dropouts, tubing etc
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Re: HELP CONVERTING MY EUROPA INTO A FIXIE!

Postby spirito » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:45 pm

tobyt wrote:I think i stopped breathing for a second then! :oops:

How can i thank you enough!

I have always loved fancy lug work which is the only reason why i bought this frame. I thought for sure people on the forum would have seen it as that guy from ebay is semi-constant with his nice frames. Thank you for keeping it on the lowdown.

Now onto my NEW CARLROPA bike!!!

CARLTON... I have never heard of them for good reason, i was born 20 years later! Thank you so much for posting this its so interesting knowing about it. EVEN MORE interesting as its not a frame from my local Kensington bike shop.

You should see my face even 15mins after reading your reply i still have a :D on my face (im so lame)

You shot me in the foot when you said dont paint it fluro. Thats exactly what i was going to do, C'MON it was going to be a fixie. My second choice was GOLD.

The 1959 clubman has the EXACT lug work. I had a look at my frame and couldnt see any remains of the Clubman branding :cry:

I think i will take your advice leave it with the original brown + car polish and get some cooool wood grain wheels! 8)

Image

The Williams chain rings look cool
Image
Could you attach those to a newaged crank art?

I will email Nick at Lloyds very shortley, he has sooo many stickers.Can i ask how you know this abundance of info?

ONCE AGAIN THANK YOU!! (not happy about spending a whole day on Adobe creating my Europa stickers!)

P.S. I wonder if the guy from ebay reads this forum?


I knew you'd get a surprise. I followed the auction and thought somebody got a good deal. Even happier to be able to give a heads-up as to what it was.

The faux woodgrain rims would look great on this. Wrong but right 8) And you'll need an older style crank to use a chainring like the Williams. Get's tricky with parts interchangeability and can get pricey. If it's your first I'd say stick to mostly recent-ish parts ... as long as they look classic and are a bright polished aluminium it'll look great. Parts is parts ... keep it clean and well lubed and enjoy the ride as that counts for a lot more.

BTW ... if the paint is really bad and can't be touched up there's nothing wrong with painting it. Flouro even ... go nuts. Just make sure it's paint and not powdercoat as that can be very difficult to remove and possibly ruin the frame if someone in the future decides to rebuild it as per original. And be careful if you are having it sand blasted as some old bikes can literally fall apart in the wrong hands. With your frame it might only need sanding back and spraying straight over but it's hard to say from the pics. Paint is paint ... if you don't like the colour and one day decide to retire it as a street fixie and bring it back to something like original all you'll need is the right colour and some decals. That way you're not erasing history and while it's in your custodianship you are doing no harm. As you mentioned the frame has been around a lot longer than you ... that's history, and it's owed a little thought to preservation perhaps even for another generation. It's got soul and character and most of all it's another old bike saved which means good for the world.

Oh, it kind of is from your local bike shop in a small part. Most bike shops put their stickers on used bikes they resold (or that came as trade-in's). Often the original decals were frail or flimsy and falling off anyway and for the most bikes don't look quite right without some decals. I'm sure Europa never meant bad and a little free advertising goes a long way. In short ... at least it passed through the shop.

I hope the seller reads this forum. Might be a lesson for them to do some more homework lest real classics like this glaring one slip under their expert nose. Maybe they are too busy attaching baskets ... :P

TobyT ... go nuts, build it up your way, ride and enjoy. :D :!: 8)

CarlRopa ... hehe :mrgreen: ... yell if you need a hand :wink:
Cranky Jim wrote: God did not invent gears. Men invented gears ... because we are not gods.
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Re: HELP CONVERTING MY EUROPA INTO A FIXIE!

Postby Aushiker » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:07 pm

G'day

I have moved this thread to the Fixed Gear / Single Speed as it is probably more appropriate here and hopefully you will get more specific relevant advice.

Regards
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Re: HELP CONVERTING MY EUROPA INTO A FIXIE!

Postby hartleymartin » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:45 pm

Easier to get fixie wheels in 700C than 27". 27" frames can take 700C wheels, but not always will frames made for 700C take 27" wheels.
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Re: Help Converting my Europa into a Fixie

Postby Wayfarer » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:18 pm

(chokes on healthy food) i was actually working on converting my own Europa till i took a break and came on here. First thing i noticed were the different lugs etc..

as for the colours man (being an art fag), can i suggest losing the stickers and touching up/repainting in the same colour? Velocity (who probably make those wood coloured wheels) make conservative "replacement" 700c wheels, called the "twin hollows". since they're made in Oz, your bike shop should be able to get them in easily. i'd use those if i had the bike to myself :)

that being said, they can make any colour wheel you'd like. just on their website, they already have jolly roger wheels, dead fishbone wheels, flame wheels, old men feeding candy to little girl wheels, etc.

that chainring looks dope!
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Re: Help Converting my Europa into a Fixie

Postby tobyt » Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:11 pm

I found some cheap Velocity deep V's in Wood grain $344!!
(Scrap that they quoted me wrong now $513)

went with the silver spokes and silver hub Image

I polished up the frame on the weekend and it looks 10x better. I was thinking of a re spray but i like the idea of having the orginal paint and i save $150.

I got some Modolo equipment
Image
Image
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Re: Help Converting my Europa into a Fixie

Postby fraz » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:57 pm

Who quoted you $500 for Velocity deep V rims? And is that just the rims or the built wheels?
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Re: Help Converting my Europa into a Fixie

Postby tobyt » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:28 am

fraz wrote:Who quoted you $500 for Velocity deep V rims? And is that just the rims or the built wheels?


No the built wheels with one wheel machined.
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Re: HELP CONVERTING MY EUROPA INTO A FIXIE!

Postby il padrone » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:25 am

tobyt wrote:The Williams chain rings look cool
Image
Could you attach those to a newaged crank art?

That chainring should fit onto a TA Cyclotouriste crank (if you can find one) or you could use this one from VO

Image
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Re: Help Converting my Europa into a Fixie

Postby spirito » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:52 am

tobyt wrote:

I got some Modolo equipment

Image


Them brakes are very cool but may not have enough reach (or drop).

See how you go ... it might work with a little creativity.
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Re: Help Converting my Europa into a Fixie

Postby tobyt » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:13 pm

Close to finished!!!!!
Image
Image
I managed to find the better wood pattern of velocity's but at cost, an extra $80 from my LBS
I have upholstered another seat with the leather used for the front grips (other grip is being made)
Pedals will soon be sanded back to steel

I took it for a ride yesterday and F********CK it is scary riding fixed with NO brakes. (i opted out of machined walls as i thought it would be easy enough to learn to stop without)

Has anyone ridden fixed with no brakes, how long did it take them to build up courage to ride on the road!!?? :cry:

Would brakes work on a non machined wall??? even slightly?
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Re: Help Converting my Europa into a Fixie

Postby Zynster » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:00 pm

Mmm, dunno about those wheels. I liked the ones you posted earlier with the machined side walls and silver spokes better. Some white tires might look good on them. And a honey Brooks B17.

Riding a bike with no brakes is crazy (and illegal). Get some brakes dude.
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Re: Help Converting my Europa into a Fixie

Postby munga » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:02 pm

you'll be fine rubbing brakie on those rims yo.

shame but..
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Re: Help Converting my Europa into a Fixie

Postby rustychisel » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:11 pm

munga wrote:you'll be fine rubbing brakie on those rims yo.



you been hitting the tequila again Munga? Fair suck of the sauce bottle.
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Re: Help Converting my Europa into a Fixie

Postby munga » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:16 pm

its my hipster hour znitches!
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Re: Help Converting my Europa into a Fixie

Postby tobyt » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:33 pm

munga wrote:you'll be fine rubbing brakie on those rims yo.

shame but..


Yo fo real?
Is their a chance of da rim cracking, id assume that the image would also rub off yall.

can you get a wheel machined when their made up or would it have to be taken apart again?
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Re: Help Converting my Europa into a Fixie

Postby trmac » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:45 pm

tobyt wrote:
I took it for a ride yesterday and F********CK it is scary riding fixed with NO brakes. (i opted out of machined walls as i thought it would be easy enough to learn to stop without)

Has anyone ridden fixed with no brakes, how long did it take them to build up courage to ride on the road!!?? :cry:

Would brakes work on a non machined wall??? even slightly?


I only just started riding fixed and can imagine not running a brake. You're mad if you don't. Its a pretty stupid thing to do anyway. I've seen many people say that brakeless is fine except for 'emergency' braking. Emergencies are generally emergencies because they are not anticipated. What happens when a pedestrian walks out into the road a shopping strip that you're cruising down?

On a lighter note, I'm running a 46/18 and haven't got a hang of spinning yet. I brake all the way down hills because scared to spin too fast and cant resist the pedals downhill to keep it reasonable. Its interesting stuff this fixie riding. :lol:
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Re: Help Converting my Europa into a Fixie

Postby tobyt » Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:18 pm

trmac wrote:
tobyt wrote:
I took it for a ride yesterday and F********CK it is scary riding fixed with NO brakes. (i opted out of machined walls as i thought it would be easy enough to learn to stop without)

Has anyone ridden fixed with no brakes, how long did it take them to build up courage to ride on the road!!?? :cry:

Would brakes work on a non machined wall??? even slightly?


I only just started riding fixed and can imagine not running a brake. You're mad if you don't. Its a pretty stupid thing to do anyway. I've seen many people say that brakeless is fine except for 'emergency' braking. Emergencies are generally emergencies because they are not anticipated. What happens when a pedestrian walks out into the road a shopping strip that you're cruising down?

On a lighter note, I'm running a 46/18 and haven't got a hang of spinning yet. I brake all the way down hills because scared to spin too fast and cant resist the pedals downhill to keep it reasonable. Its interesting stuff this fixie riding. :lol:


Its HARD work going down a hill with just resistance! i was doing it all yesterday as my back lane is a big hill. I was going to run a brake for that exact reason Emergency's but then my hipster side cut in and said "yall those rims will look bling without a silver stripe down the side" I have a geard bike for work every day but this one is primarily for CRUZEN to get milk and for fun/tricks.

On a harder note, try doing skids. I lean all the way to the front and cracked my stomach against the handlebar stem every time i attempted it.
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Re: Help Converting my Europa into a Fixie

Postby Wayfarer » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:46 pm

You could always run an old wheel with a front brake till you're used to riding 1900's style.. As for the skidding, my mate has this thing called a skid pad; he cements it onto the rear tire, and stops pedalling for a longer skid! as for the geared bike..

riding a geared bike on a sunday afternoon is like working on the sabbath.
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Re: Help Converting my Europa into a Fixie

Postby munga » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:15 pm

tobyt wrote:
munga wrote:you'll be fine rubbing brakie on those rims yo.

shame but..


Yo fo real?
Is their a chance of da rim cracking, id assume that the image would also rub off yall.

can you get a wheel machined when their made up or would it have to be taken apart again?


if you liv in bris, you could go to velocity's factory and ask them how it's done, or you could email them.

WRT to braking, the colour/image will obviously rub off, but the rim will be structurally sound for as long as a machined rim will. gunna look like Showtime tho. i reckon sell 'em and buy the proper rims next time..
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Re: Help Converting my Europa into a Fixie

Postby singlespeedscott » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:06 pm

trmac wrote:
On a lighter note, I'm running a 46/18 and haven't got a hang of spinning yet. I brake all the way down hills because scared to spin too fast and cant resist the pedals downhill to keep it reasonable. Its interesting stuff this fixie riding. :lol:

Believe it or not but the easiest way to spin down hill is to spin faster. Try to out spin the cranks. Don't worry to much about the bike getting out of shape it wont happen as long as you relax. It is also easier to check your speed on decents using the rear brake as it doesn't unload the rear wheel which is what happens if you use to much front brake.
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