Crackdown on Fixies

The place for fixies and other rides without gears

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby il padrone » Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:27 pm

Nobody wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:• For bicycles with cantilever brakes—a safety device is fitted to prevent the stirrup cable from touching the tyre.
????
Don't know either. Must be an old law though.

Refers to cantilever brakes (ie. not V-brakes). Cantilever brakes are still about on some road bikes and the same safety issue - a broken brake cable resulting in the straddle cable being stretched across the tyre tread - is still a risk, particularly nasty if it's the front cable that parts.

Image

Easily solved - front light/reflector bracket or front mudguard fitted.

Image
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18265
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

by BNA » Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:49 pm

BNA
 

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby Nobody » Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:49 pm

Thanks Pete. Never really thought about it as I never found out the hard way when using them.
Of course, the best fix for this problem is discs. :wink:
Nobody
 
Posts: 6634
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby rkelsen » Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:40 pm

Nobody wrote:Of course, the best fix for this problem is discs. :wink:

Not necessarily, Nobody... A bike fitted with cantilevers may not have any disc mounts, in which case the best option would be V brakes - purely because they will fit on cantilever studs and offer much better braking than cantis.
User avatar
rkelsen
 
Posts: 4317
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:41 pm

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby Nobody » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:03 pm

rkelsen wrote:
Nobody wrote:Of course, the best fix for this problem is discs. :wink:

Not necessarily, Nobody... A bike fitted with cantilevers may not have any disc mounts, in which case the best option would be V brakes - purely because they will fit on cantilever studs and offer much better braking than cantis.
Note the :wink:
That was a bit of a wind-up. Yes, agreed. Vs better than cantis (in most cases). If you were willing to swap the fork out however... :)
Nobody
 
Posts: 6634
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby trailgumby » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:21 pm

I called the ACCC at lunchtime partly for some amusement and got onto a very nice bloke called Simon.

I pointed out the Australian Standard as quoted in the release rendered a lot of significant bike technology - that has been in such widespread use over the last several decades as to render it the accepted standard in the market - technically illegal:
* All disc-braked bikes are incapable of complying with the requirement to have the pad contact the wheel rim only
* All clipless pedals don't have reflectors, nor can they be practically fitted to most
* Nearly all clipless pedals lack "tread" as required under the standard, except for DownHill caged units. They don;t need it, and it would adversely affect their proper operation (eg, pedal float to protect knees from injury) not to mention being quite unnecessary.
* Derailleur-equipped bikes cannot in most cases be fitted with an effective chainguard as required because it gets in the way of effective operation
* Handlebar bells are useless - drivers cannot hear them, pedestrians with ipods in their heads cannot hear them, most available models don;t work at all when wet. The human voice is far more effective.
* Side reflectors are in most cases not fitted to high end wheels and may actually pose a risk to the structural integrity of bladed alloy and composite spokes if left in place due to the effects of rubbing and wear
* Any prosecution based on this outdated standard is going to suffer credibility problems and probably embarass the ACCC.

I suggested an exception for clipless could be handled by setting a requirement to fit a reflective panel to the heel of bike shoes (like on the dhb units I bought off a fellow-BNAer a fortnight ago) and would deal with what they're attempting to address by mandating pedal reflectors.

The guy was a cyclist himself, took very detailed notes, agreed with most of my points, and took my details. My Claim To Authority was that I am an author in the cycling field (thankyou Christopher :D) Will be interesting to see if there's any furhter contact back from ACCC or Standards Australia. :lol:
"People have a right to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Evidence must be located, not created, and opinions not backed by evidence cannot be given much weight." -- James W Loewen

http://www.facebook.com/Drive2WorkDay
User avatar
trailgumby
 
Posts: 10262
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:30 pm
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby petie » Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:20 pm

i'm amazed it took them this long to put out a press release and have a "crackdown", although i'm certain most if not all LBSs aare already ahead of the game.

However it is amusing how little research has gone into the press release, using old obsolete standards. Admittedly they are probably the most up to date standards available but they mean nothing just the same! :lol:
petie
 
Posts: 482
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:16 pm

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby sturmey archer » Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:30 pm

il padrone wrote:Refers to cantilever brakes (ie. not V-brakes). Cantilever brakes are still about on some road bikes and the same safety issue - a broken brake cable resulting in the straddle cable being stretched across the tyre tread - is still a risk, particularly nasty if it's the front cable that parts.

Actually in the type of canti shown in the photo, there is no straddle cable . The main brake cable goes to one arm through , the cable to the other arm i only goes to the round thing. If the main cable breaks and the cables fall on the tyre they will pull through.
Doesn't matter to bureaucrats of course...
Ian
1.370" x 24 tpi - what sort of stupid standard is that?
User avatar
sturmey archer
 
Posts: 237
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 8:14 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby Baldy » Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:36 pm

"Handlebar bells are useless"

What rubbish, of course the examples you give are true. But they hardly apply to all conditions and every circumstance.

I get effective results using a piss ant little bell on shared paths. No one ever says they work 100% of the time but neither does your voice.

Someone in a car with the windows up and the stereo blaring wont hear a bell, they wont hear you yelling either so I dont see your point.
Baldy
 
Posts: 1669
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:55 pm

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby trailgumby » Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:51 pm

"What rubbish" [cough] I believe the argument forum is the next door on the right. This is the friendly and civil discussion forum. Go on, off you go. This is not the place for you. Of course you don't see my point. You're in Tasmania. Curvature of the earth gets in the way of line-of-sight. :P

Image

Thanks for making my point for me, by the way - "it doesn't work in all circumstances" - which is why it's so dumb in my view to have them mandated as a standard and to be using that to threaten folks with fines with lots of zeros on the end.

I find the human voice to be far more effective for the threats to my safety that matter. Not perfect, granted, but better than any other option. In my experience it's much more likely to get a driver's attention than a bell, or even a horn, and I am far more concerned about the consequeces of a driver not being aware of me than a ped. A ped might get hurt but is unlikely to die, or to kill me. A car, though, can easily do stupidly serious damage just by brushing you, and I have the X-rays to prove it.

When you;ve had your fill in the argumetn forum nd you're prepared to play nice, you're welcome back here any time. :D
"People have a right to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Evidence must be located, not created, and opinions not backed by evidence cannot be given much weight." -- James W Loewen

http://www.facebook.com/Drive2WorkDay
User avatar
trailgumby
 
Posts: 10262
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:30 pm
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby Baldy » Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:25 pm

:lol: Yeah I was being nitpicky. Not sure I'd call it arguing, bells arnt useless thats pretty much all I was saying. I dont think anyone thinks they are the answer to everything and if they do they are obviously deluded. Bells have their time and place, I dont see whats wrong with that.

I have ped's saying thanks when I give them a heads up ding when im 10-15m back. They dont turn around, they might edge into the left lane a bit if they were wandering along the centreline. They just appreciate the heads up. Theres not much confusion to a bike bell, it speaks all languages.

This might give you a chuckle, on more than one occasion ive had peds sheet themselves as ive come past after ringing the bell. Most of our intercity cycleway in Hobart runs next to a train line and yes, they thought I was a train :roll: :lol: Sometimes Tasmanians are our own worst enemy :mrgreen:
Baldy
 
Posts: 1669
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:55 pm

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:23 pm

Is there still a requirement to have tread?
A helmet saved my life
User avatar
mikesbytes
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 14776
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: Tempe, Sydney

Bike shops threatened with fines for selling Fixies

Postby Westgarth » Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:21 am

From this morning's paper:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/milli ... 1248l.html

Million-dollar fines to put the brakes on bikes
Natalie Craig
August 15, 2010

AFTER thick-rimmed glasses, a ''fixie'' bike is the hipster's ultimate accessory. With sleek lines, retro colours, no gears and often no brakes, they are the vehicle of choice for inner Melbourne's funky ''Fitzroyal'' set.

But now the feds are trying to cramp their style. Australia's consumer watchdog is threatening bike shops with fines of more than $1 million for selling brakeless fixed-wheel bikes.

Bikes must be sold with front and rear brakes, but the pedals on a fixed-wheel bike move when the wheels do, so skilled riders tend to ditch formal brakes and stop by resisting against the pedals, or turning into a skid.

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has already taken action against a wholesaler for distributing the ''Surly Steamroller'' without back brakes and is urging people to dob in others who do the same.

It warned ''pedestrians and other bike riders are … at risk of serious injury or death if someone riding a fixed-gear bike loses control and collides with them''.

Melbourne bikers are more bemused than worried. ''It's like cracking down on people who pick their nose when driving,'' said Andy White, of cycling blog fyxomatosis.com.

Nick Mahoney, of Saint Cloud on Brunswick Street, ''a concept store fusing together fashion and fixed-gear bicycle culture'', said most fixie riders were safer than normal cyclists. ''You know exactly how quickly you can stop and you become much more aware of your surrounds and your limitations,'' he said.

Sasha Strickland, of Pony Bike in West Melbourne, described fixies as the purest communion between man, bike and road.

''You're more connected with the bike, and with the road; because of the constant drive of it, you can't stop pedalling.''

She said while she rode a fixie with front and rear brakes, she had built bikes for customers without brakes.

''I don't want to come across as some young punk who's going, 'yeah ride fixies' … Safety is an issue. I was hit by a truck six years ago and fractured my skull and lost my sense of smell.

''I strongly encourage all of my customers to have brakes. But ultimately, I've got to do what they want.''

ACCC's Peter Kell said it was retailers and wholesalers who were the target of the crackdown. Custom bikes are exempt from the safety standards, as are track bikes, the thoroughbred racing cycles that started the fixie craze.

Bicycle Victoria's Garry Brennan said several members had reported sales by bike shops of brakeless fixie bikes. He said would be difficult to stop people modifying their bikes. ''Just as hoons modify cars, similar personalities modify their bikes with unsafe changes and neither are desirable.''

Cyclists who broke the law by riding without safety equipment, including at least one brake, faced a fine of $149 and could be sued if they were in an accident.

Ms Strickland said the fixie craze was at least healthier than other youth trends. ''You take (fixies) away from them, they start doing graffiti, they start taking drugs … At least they're doing something physical and healthy.''
Westgarth
 
Posts: 895
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:07 pm

Re: Bike shops threatened with fines for selling Fixies

Postby Lark2004 » Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:21 am

edited since above post has now been merged with the thread I had refered to...
Last edited by Lark2004 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew
User avatar
Lark2004
 
Posts: 1455
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:02 pm
Location: Lawnton, 25k north of Brisbane

Re: Bike shops threatened with fines for selling Fixies

Postby hartleymartin » Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:25 pm

Simple - sell the bikes with a front-brake only (as quite a few fixie riders do use) and if the customer pulls it off the bicycle, it's the customer's problem.

Although, another issue is that track-racing bicycles are not street legal, you could get around this by selling "track bicycles" and customising them with riser bars. Then it is technically a custom machine, and avoids the law.

Personally, I would never ride a brake-less fixie (although I did briefly ride a brake-less free-wheel single-speed down to k-mart to buy brake cables). When I rode fixie for the first time in Canberra, I found that I had to be aware of what speed I was doing, and to have on finger on the brake lever always to bring myself to a controlled stop. I honestly did feel much more aware and in control of my speed when riding fixed than I ever did on free-wheel.

The bike I was riding used one of those single-finger brake levers. Something always felt a little "dirty" about that particular lever.
Martin Christopher Hartley

http://raleightwenty.webs.com - the top web resource for the Raleigh Twenty
http://madmartysblog.blogspot.com - my cycling adventures
User avatar
hartleymartin
 
Posts: 5069
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:56 pm
Location: Old Toongabbie, NSW

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby DaveOZ » Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:32 am

Am I missing something, what's the aversion to running brakes on a fixie? Can't be the extra weight.
Image
User avatar
DaveOZ
 
Posts: 1482
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:15 am
Location: Bowral NSW

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby Nobody » Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:13 am

DaveOZ wrote:Am I missing something, what's the aversion to running brakes on a fixie? Can't be the extra weight.
I think the problem is some people are form_over_function and don't want to disturb what they see as clean lines with a brake and brake lever. They also see their legs as a brake.
Nobody
 
Posts: 6634
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby il padrone » Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:33 am

DaveOZ wrote:Am I missing something, what's the aversion to running brakes on a fixie? Can't be the extra weight.

Fixie riders tend to wax lyrical (as did that lady in the article) about the zen of communing with the road and getting in touch with your inner asphalt :roll: :lol: by riding fixed and brakeless.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18265
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:23 am

DaveOZ wrote:Am I missing something, what's the aversion to running brakes on a fixie? Can't be the extra weight.


Style
A helmet saved my life
User avatar
mikesbytes
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 14776
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: Tempe, Sydney

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby rustychisel » Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:33 pm

il padrone wrote:Fixie riders tend to wank* lyrical (as did that lady in the article) about the zen of communing with the road and getting in touch with your inner asphalt :roll: :lol: by riding fixed and brakeless.



*I agree but feel you'll find my minor alteration more in keeping with the ethos
rustychisel
 
Posts: 3353
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:39 pm

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby Westgarth » Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:08 pm

It's about the journey, not the road. The road is your life, the journey is your soul.
Westgarth
 
Posts: 895
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:07 pm

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby il padrone » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:20 pm

Westgarth wrote:It's about the journey, not the road. The road is your life, the journey is your soul.

You been reading to much of Cormac Mc Carthy there !!

Image
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18265
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby Westgarth » Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:53 am

Actually I saw the movie. Terribly depressing and negative (I thought) - I find myself wondering if we really need movies like that?
Westgarth
 
Posts: 895
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:07 pm

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby hartleymartin » Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:11 pm

Form over function... WHAT ROT! A nice brake lever, gracefully curved cable and polished callipers are extremely aesthetically pleasing (and make for good bike porn).
Martin Christopher Hartley

http://raleightwenty.webs.com - the top web resource for the Raleigh Twenty
http://madmartysblog.blogspot.com - my cycling adventures
User avatar
hartleymartin
 
Posts: 5069
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:56 pm
Location: Old Toongabbie, NSW

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby drubie » Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:56 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Hang on just one frickin' moment!

Just went right thru the ACCC bulletin...
Anybody see the real scary bit? Forget brakeless fixies...

Bicycles not required to comply with the mandatory standard
...
Tandem bicycles.
• Power-assisted bicycles.
• Bicycles showing signs of appreciable wear or
second-hand bicycles.
• Recumbent bicycles.


All of those give me the heebies, but a brakeless fixie tandem ridden on the road sounds like a double suicide pact to me.
Lets (for arguments sake) make it a Brakeless, fixie, tandem recumbent! Decapitation central!
So we get the leaders we deserve and we elect, we get the companies and the products that we ask for, right? And we have to ask for different things. – Paul Gilding
but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.
User avatar
drubie
 
Posts: 4617
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:12 am
Location: New England

Re: Crackdown on Fixies

Postby hartleymartin » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:28 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Hang on just one frickin' moment!

Just went right thru the ACCC bulletin...
Anybody see the real scary bit? Forget brakeless fixies...

Bicycles not required to comply with the mandatory standard
...
• Tandem bicycles.
• Power-assisted bicycles.
• Bicycles showing signs of appreciable wear or
second-hand bicycles.
• Recumbent bicycles.


So this means that If I buy a brakeless fixie second-hand then it is perfectly street legal?
Martin Christopher Hartley

http://raleightwenty.webs.com - the top web resource for the Raleigh Twenty
http://madmartysblog.blogspot.com - my cycling adventures
User avatar
hartleymartin
 
Posts: 5069
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:56 pm
Location: Old Toongabbie, NSW

PreviousNext

Return to Fixed Gear/ Single Speed

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers
> BNA Cycling Kit