New Mid Racer

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New Mid Racer

Postby Freddyflatfoot » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:40 pm

Just thought I'd share a pic of the frame for my new mid racer.
This bike will (hopfully!) replace Blue Heeler, so I guess she'll be Blue Heeler 2.
She will have a 700C rear and 451 front, 120cm wheelbase, 46 cm seat height, and 65cm BB height.
Intending to make my own Aluminium seat, with a Ventisit pad.
I will use the existing running gear off Blue Heeler, so will have a 28/38/48 crankset with 152mm cranks, and a 11-34 rear cluster, all handled with Sram 9 speed trigger shifters.
Hopefully she'll weigh less than Blue Heeler (currently at 20 Kg with tailbox and road going trim). Aiming at ~ 15 kg.
Frame was welded up today.
Image
Cheers!
Rob
---------------------------------------------------
Homebuilt trike, with electric assist
26"/20" trike, "Goanna"
SWB recumbent, 700C/451 , "Kookaburra", homebuilt.
FWD project (Cyclone).
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by BNA » Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:54 am

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Gecko or Kelpie????

Postby Storm » Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:54 am

That looks good Rob it's a nice shape, are you using an arc welder? you do get good results, I'm impressed. I have made an aluminium seat...easy, cut patterns in sheet with fine tooth jigsaw, I used the same sheet for the seat and rails (2mm and wouldnt want to go any thinner), the rails attach to the seat with angled tabs (part of the rails), drilled then riveted (I drilled on either side of the tabs before cutting so when it came to bending it didn't warp the rail)
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn271/Glenspictures/suspensionseat.jpg?t=1235425515

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn271/Glenspictures/100_0022.jpg?t=1235425764

Do you find the that short cranks help? I've decided on some 135mm BMX cranks to use on my micro, a leap of faith.

Also did you make your own dropouts?
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Postby Freddyflatfoot » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:45 am

Thanks for the pics of your seat Glen, that's pretty much how I was going to go, 2mm rails with tabs to rivet the seat to, but I was thinking of only 1.2mm seat pad. You think that is too thin? I have heard of people using thinner, about 0.9mm.
I took another couple of pics this morning, after I added an old BMX fork, a 406 wheel, and a 700C wheel, as well as the steering tiller I intend to use.
Weighed the lot at 8.5 Kg, so I think my 15 Kg target is very realistic!
Image
Image
Cheers!
Rob
---------------------------------------------------
Homebuilt trike, with electric assist
26"/20" trike, "Goanna"
SWB recumbent, 700C/451 , "Kookaburra", homebuilt.
FWD project (Cyclone).
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Seat

Postby Storm » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:33 pm

The thing is with a thinner sheet is the seat will twist, mine does a little (no prob), you will also easily dent and bend it, if you wan't it lighter you can cut more holes like Challenge and Morpheous does, the rails on them are welded mine weighs 1.5kg. I would suggest making the upper part adjustable as I got the size wrong on mine and added some ugly foam to compensate, I will modify it in the future.

It is looking really good so far, did you give up on the hurricane clone? What colour did you have in mind?
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Postby Freddyflatfoot » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:15 pm

The bike will be blue again, maybe a metal flake mid blue, just not sure yet. can't really be the Blue Heeler 2, unless its blue?
Yeah, the Hurricane project is on hold, been doing too much riding, and decided to build this one instead.
Now that I've built up the 451 wheel, I now have a 'spare' 406 for the Hurricane, which I was missing. Also the seat design has been an issue, as the curve in the frame is really tight, so getting a seat to fit the curve is an issue. If the Al seat works out ok, I'll make another one for the Hurricane, and probably a third for my trike!
Another issue I have with the Hurricane, is that it will be a little short in the gearing stakes, so it wont be particularly fast. Will only have 12-28 7 speed cluster and a road double on a 20" wheel.
Cheers!
Rob
---------------------------------------------------
Homebuilt trike, with electric assist
26"/20" trike, "Goanna"
SWB recumbent, 700C/451 , "Kookaburra", homebuilt.
FWD project (Cyclone).
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Postby william » Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:01 pm

Rob,

I just realised why you take the pictures outside. There is no room left in the shed.

William.
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Postby Freddyflatfoot » Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:48 pm

:D
Cheers!
Rob
---------------------------------------------------
Homebuilt trike, with electric assist
26"/20" trike, "Goanna"
SWB recumbent, 700C/451 , "Kookaburra", homebuilt.
FWD project (Cyclone).
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In the raw!

Postby Freddyflatfoot » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:21 pm

well folks, Blue Heeler 2 is on the road!
Put all the fiddly bits on today, and took her out for some trial rides. Had some trouble getting the handlebars setup so that they were comfortable and didn't foul my legs too much. Eventually got something sorted , so that it is at least rideable! Bike seems to handle well, seems stable, at low speed anyway. Need to take her out for a longer ride to see how she goes, after I put the speedo on!
The bike is physically smaller all round, and a check weigh comes in at under 15 kg, so made my target!
Only took one pic today, so here it is!
I'll leave her 'naked' for the time beung while I make sure the frame stays together, and I still need to add a light bar to my derailleur post.
Be interesting to see how the cantilever chainstays hold together!
Image
Cheers!
Rob
---------------------------------------------------
Homebuilt trike, with electric assist
26"/20" trike, "Goanna"
SWB recumbent, 700C/451 , "Kookaburra", homebuilt.
FWD project (Cyclone).
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Postby Low Racer » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:35 pm

Wow Rob. I am impressed by the speed you built your bike. I like it. Please keep us informed with your N+1.

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Postby Gregory_carroll » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:38 pm

Nice looking bike!! Pretty quick too!!
Lovin the Challenge!!
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Mid Racer ride report

Postby Freddyflatfoot » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:53 pm

here's a copy of the report I posted on BROL.
Took Blue Heeler 2 out for her maiden ride today. She felt good and easy to ride. Stopping for traffic was no issue with the lower seat height, but not that low that you couldn't see or be seen.
About 5.5 k's into the ride I stopped at set of traffic lights, and when I went to start, the nut holding the set bolt for the flip it stem broke off! So i turned round and headed for home, trying to ride while supporting the bar. Made it hard with a full bidon on the stem!
Got home without any dramas, and decided to try my rigid stem from my original bike, rather than weld on a Total Fire Ban day!
Got it set up with a short riser, but handle bar was just a touch too low, but still quite ridable, so went out anyway for about a 25 k ride. Was a very windy day, but apart from slowing me down, wasn't really noticable. Minor issues noted, slighly loose BB, cranks a touch too close, causing some knee strain, and some noise coming from the idler when in the lower gears. It appears that the I mounted the idler a little bit too far out, causing the chain to rub on the idler sides, creating the noise. Really only an issue in the lower gears, so I may not change it.
The bike felt really stable right from the start, and the riding position felt just right! I noticed that there appeared to be very little frame flex, in fact the frame felt very rigid. I tried to hammer the pedals a couple of times, to see if I could discern any boom flex. I couldn't!
On the way home, with a tail wind, I got up to ~52 kph, and the bike felt stable at all times.
When I rode over some uneven pavement, the bike seemed to ride over quite well, and I couldn't notice any chainstay flex.
Once I had about 20 k's under my belt, I was starting to feel very comfortable with the bike! Once I sort out the flip it stem, I think I'm gonna love this bike! It rides well, handles well, and is very stable.
I adjusted the BB, and crank when I got home, and then went out for another short ride. The crank position felt much better. I tried some low speed riding, and found that I could ride at 3 kph, or less, (when the computer stopped registering!) Tight turns were restricted due to the low bar. Heel strike doesn't seem to be an issue, but that could be just me used to it anyway.
At this stage, I have used the plywood seat off the original bike, so I'm still planning on making an aluminium one for this bike, but no hurry. And I'll adapt my tailbox to fit. Its just too practical to leave it off!
In the meantime though, I'll get a couple of hundred k's under my belt, before I strip her down and give her a lick of paint, just to make sure that everything holds together the way it should!
I may even purchase a commercially available flip it stem, its just too hard to get off the bike without it!
Anyway, did i say I was happy with the way the bike turned out?
Cheers!
Rob
---------------------------------------------------
Homebuilt trike, with electric assist
26"/20" trike, "Goanna"
SWB recumbent, 700C/451 , "Kookaburra", homebuilt.
FWD project (Cyclone).
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Postby william » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:45 pm

Man...
Do you sleep?
It seems just a few days ago I was looking at a bare frame. Already you're test riding and fine tuning. Whoosh!
By the way I like the style you have chosen with a practical seat height.
Are you taking orders yet?
Does it ride better than the previous by much?

William.
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Postby Freddyflatfoot » Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:07 pm

Yep, I do sleep!
handling is very similar, although there is less frame flex, and the CofG is noticably lower.
I repaired the flip it stem, and it seems to work much better than the fixed stem, being that it is higher and more practical.
Not sure if the handling is better, but the bike feels like it fits me better!
Just got some minor issues to sort out with the chainline.
I mounted the idler a bit too far out, so I'll move it inboard a touch. I may even 'pinch' the GS idler off my other trike for that purpose, and I'll add a second idler for the return chain, and mount it above the fork.
I tried 'dropping' the return chain, but i didn't like the way it interfered with the fork.
I think I'm losing some watts with the way the chain is ATM, but I'm still getting about the same speed as the old bike, less the tailbox!
Haven't tried any real high speed stuff yet, or hill climbing, but some of the short rises I've been up, I seem to be able to power up them much better.
I've even added a rear rack temporarily, with a top rack bag, to keep some tools and spare tubes in, should I ever need them.
Funny how things work out, I had modified a rack to use on my Goanna trike, and it fits the new bike perfectly! So can even use my panniers at a pinch.
On a side note, I said that I had the weight at sub 15 Kg, which I was happy with. I researched the closest bike I could find, the Challenge Furai, and they spec the base model at 15.5 Kg! Gotta be happy with that!
Cheers!
Rob
---------------------------------------------------
Homebuilt trike, with electric assist
26"/20" trike, "Goanna"
SWB recumbent, 700C/451 , "Kookaburra", homebuilt.
FWD project (Cyclone).
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Mid racer completed..................and named!

Postby Freddyflatfoot » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:52 pm

Well, after doing about 230 k's of 'trial' rides, I decided that the build was good enough for painting.
Decided on a metallic light blue that I had on hand, and also named her "Kookaburra", continuing on with my Aussie fauna theme.
Decided on going with the single idler, and just used a bracket to raise the height of the chain tubes. Seems to work well.
Here's a couple of pics of the completed bike.
Only need the tailbox to complete.
Image
Image
Cheers!
Rob
---------------------------------------------------
Homebuilt trike, with electric assist
26"/20" trike, "Goanna"
SWB recumbent, 700C/451 , "Kookaburra", homebuilt.
FWD project (Cyclone).
Optima Raptor
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Postby william » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:47 pm

Lookin' fantastic there Rob.

I still have trouble believing how fast you put that together. Is there an extension on the shed in the pipeline too? It surely must be swelling a little.
Did you borrow parts from the other bikes?
You're making me feel a little inspired to build my own-now where's that welder...

william.
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Postby Freddyflatfoot » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:22 pm

thanks William. Yeah, I pinch parts from the other bikes! ;)
All the running gear for this one came off Blue Heeler, including the front fork.
So Blue Heeler, sadly now, is just a bare frame!
I guess I do put them together fairly quick, but I put in a fair amount of groundwork first. The actual building doesn't really take that long, just gotta commit the time! Besides, I have been on leave for the last 3 weeks, so had plenty of time up my sleeve!
An extension to my garage would be good, but unfortunately, no room to move. :(
Cheers!
Rob
---------------------------------------------------
Homebuilt trike, with electric assist
26"/20" trike, "Goanna"
SWB recumbent, 700C/451 , "Kookaburra", homebuilt.
FWD project (Cyclone).
Optima Raptor
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Postby Kalgrm » Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:39 pm

Well done Rob. Looks lovely.

Cheers,
Graeme
Think outside the double triangle.
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Postby John Lewis » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:01 pm

That's a nice looking bike Rob. A credit to the builder I reckon.

Now you need some big rides so you can see how it fares long distance. It sure looks like it wants to move.

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How long?

Postby Freddyflatfoot » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:47 am

How long John? BTW, thanks for the kudos!
I did a 70+k group ride last Saturday, no probs at all! Very comfy, and stable. I managed an avg. of 26.3 kph, which for me is not bad over that distance. so I'm thinking I should get quicker the more I get acclimatized to the bike, as I've noticed that the higher BB does feel a bit different. On the plus side, it seems to climb better. I guess the tailbox should only make me quicker! ;)
I will make some more 'improvements' as I go along. I still need to fine tune the handlebars to get the right height and minimize the bar/leg interference.
I still want to make an aluminium seat, mainly coz I want to! (and I think it will look better)
I'll make a Ventisit seat pad, and I'll modify my old tailbox to fit. probably in reverse order!
I can see this bike becoming more of my main ride, rather than my trike.
Horses for courses I guess. Or is that bikes for.................?
Cheers!
Rob
---------------------------------------------------
Homebuilt trike, with electric assist
26"/20" trike, "Goanna"
SWB recumbent, 700C/451 , "Kookaburra", homebuilt.
FWD project (Cyclone).
Optima Raptor
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Postby John Lewis » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:27 pm

Hi Rob,

70km should give you a feel for comfort and speed so looks good.

I was thinking of a longer Audax ride to really test you out :lol:

You can certainly move faster than me. I manage between 15/19 kmh most times. It's me not the bikes. Age creeping up as Im closer to 70 than 60.

I'm starting a LWB lowracer to see how it goes.

Be interested in how you finish the ventisit. I'm ordering some of the material and thinking of using two layers. The edges might be a problem.

John Lewis
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Postby raptordesigns » Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:07 am

John Lewis wrote:Be interested in how you finish the ventisit. I'm ordering some of the material and thinking of using two layers. The edges might be a problem.

Congratulations on the completion Rob! It looks good.

John L, I use a single layer of "ventisit" (ACS10) on my custom moulded seat and with a bit of overhang the edges haven't been a problem for me. Other folks simply do a double layer by folding the main front section of ACS10 back at the edges and to the rear to make a full double layer (a bit of appropriate tailoring and some stitching with black poly thread is involved, and that seems to work well too.

John R.
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Postby John Lewis » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:34 am

Thanks for the info on the acs10 John. Will Know more when I get the stuff. I'd like to get a close up of an original Ventisit to see how they did it though.

John Lewis
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ventisit

Postby Freddyflatfoot » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:10 pm

John L, just starting to go through this process ATM.
Conversing with a guy in Canberra who has made some before.
A single bed size sheet of ACS10 is ~$110 delivered. Would be enough for two double layered seats.
Apparently you can secure the seat at the rear with small zip ties, or with fishing line.
I might just use zip ties in case I get it wrong!
Cheers!
Rob
---------------------------------------------------
Homebuilt trike, with electric assist
26"/20" trike, "Goanna"
SWB recumbent, 700C/451 , "Kookaburra", homebuilt.
FWD project (Cyclone).
Optima Raptor
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tailbox added.

Postby Freddyflatfoot » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:04 pm

Added my tailbox today. Only needed minor mods to fit. Sits lower on the wheel than on the last bike, so have lost some room in the tailbox.
Here are the pics! And one of the old bike as a comparison.
Image
Image
Cheers!
Rob
---------------------------------------------------
Homebuilt trike, with electric assist
26"/20" trike, "Goanna"
SWB recumbent, 700C/451 , "Kookaburra", homebuilt.
FWD project (Cyclone).
Optima Raptor
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Location: Ballarat, Victoria

Postby Kalgrm » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:08 pm

Nice - got any oblique, end-on and rear views? I'm planning on making something up for mine - eventually ....

Cheers,
Graeme
Think outside the double triangle.
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