Capreo or SRAM Dual Drive? WANTED

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Capreo or SRAM Dual Drive? WANTED

Postby Freddyflatfoot » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:03 pm

I have started a new project, FWD Hurricane clone, dual 406 wheels.
I'm looking at my gearing options, and rather than post in the market place section, I though I'd throw it amongst my bent brethren!
Anyway, I'm looking to see if anyone has either a Capreo setup, or a SRAM Dual Drive they may be looking to offload?
I'll probably keep going with my current parts, but she will be way under geared!
Only a 7 speed 14-28 freewheel, and a 40/50 crankset.
Here's a pic as she is ATM,
Image
Cheers!
Rob
---------------------------------------------------
Homebuilt trike, with electric assist
26"/20" trike, "Goanna"
SWB recumbent, 700C/451 , "Kookaburra", homebuilt.
FWD project (Cyclone).
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by BNA » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:35 pm

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Re: Capreo or SRAM Dual Drive? WANTED

Postby william » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:35 pm

Rob, you never cease to amaze me.
It seems not long ago you just finished a project and now this one.
Have to wonder if inspiration came from the Raptobike. I was, and still am considering a frame set. I just saw the picture of the medium racer and have to say that it doesn't share any style from the low racer. Lost its curves.
Getting back to yours though and wondered how you're going to do the pulley arrangement. From what I've seen on others, getting the right position is tricky, both for chain management and wheel clearance. Chain twisting is really a non issue with modern chains and if anyone wants to look at wheel angles whilst riding, its only a few degrees at most.
I think you may have to look at something like a 60t chainring. My wife has the speedy dahon folder with a 55t chainring and a sram x-9 rear derailleur and 11-32 cassette. For me I spin out at 48k's but for this bike its perfect. It only weighs 8 Kilos too. If you can get the dual drive you'll be laughing but the hens teeth are around here somewhere...
Going by your standards and previous work we should be seeing the new bike ready to go by..er... Monday?

Regards and have fun...

William.
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Re: Capreo or SRAM Dual Drive? WANTED

Postby Freddyflatfoot » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:59 am

Dunno about Monday William!, ;)
Still haven't got my idlers yet, but I do have most of the other parts, to at least get something together that will at least function!
Except I will be spinning at at about 38 kph!
And yes, The Raptobike is my inspiration! Will probably get a frame kit somewhere down the track. At least this way I'll have the parts ready to put on!
I'm leaning towards the Capreo for simplicity and weight, although this frame is heavy, but a Dual Drive will give a better spread of gears, but at a higher cost.
I'm really looking forward to see what all the fuss is about with FWD! Should be fun!
Oh, and my last build? Finished her in March, and she has about 2800 k's on the clock, so I think I just about have her run in!
I've got a thread going on at BROL, documenting the FWD build.
Cheers!
Rob
---------------------------------------------------
Homebuilt trike, with electric assist
26"/20" trike, "Goanna"
SWB recumbent, 700C/451 , "Kookaburra", homebuilt.
FWD project (Cyclone).
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Re: Capreo or SRAM Dual Drive? WANTED

Postby william » Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:04 am

FWD,
I'm not sure that if you closed your eyes you would know its fwd until the inside of your leg got jammed between the idler and chain.
The Cruzbike's moving bottom bracket is a different ride altogether but very versatile once you become experienced with it. They (the bike) do teach you to spin efficiently and smoothly.
One of the John's (from Hastings I think) had an unusual fwd setup. 700c rear and 20 in front, frame went over the shoulder, seat hung from the frame - very fast and stable handling. He was very enthusiastic about the fwd concept but his is a fixed bottom bracket like the Rapto.
If you've been following the BROL site you may have also seen the Zockra ... (drooool!). Interestingly it also has a moving bottom bracket but steering angle is 45 degrees, very interesting setup and one video showing a first time rider hands free... Cruzbike demos have also shown this and for great distances.
I let go of my bars once... For 2 tenths of a second but then again I have never been comfortable doing it on any bike. I was asking Arnold from Rapto about riding no hands and he says it took some time but has a friend who can ride a Challenge standing on the seat, woow!
[Oh, and my last build? Finished her in March, and she has about 2800 k's on the clock, so I think I just about have her run in!]
Makes me wonder if the kids say "who's that man"?

Have fun with the build Rob and I'm sure pictures will be posted soon, maybe ... er, Wednesday then.

Regards,

William.
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Re: Capreo or SRAM Dual Drive? WANTED

Postby Freddyflatfoot » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:31 pm

William, I have seen John's bike, its called the Xevon, and is very innovative! If you've got a spare $6000, its for sale! Its a very fast bike, and I was amazed at how stable it is at speed on gravel bike paths.
Also seen the Zockra bikes, very nice, very light, and very expensive! The MBB low racer looks cool, but I would lean towards the mid racer.
I just dunno about MBB.
I have started a thread on BROL under the homebuilder section, so look out there for updates!
In the process of sourcing the idlers, and maybe a Capreo hub and cassette. The SRAm Dual Drive option is looking a touch on the expensive side, and since I've already bought a Shimano 105 RD, I'd have to replace that too, to work with the SRAM shifters!
I've done the no hands thing on my mid racer, but not for long. Not very comfortable with it. I also was not very good at it riding uprights.
Sounds like you might be interested in getting a Rapto? From what I hear, it would be a good move! One of the guys over at BROL was impressed at how stable it was a what I would call scary speed! IIRC, it was around 85 kph.
Anyway, keep an eye over at BROL for progress!
Cheers!
Rob
---------------------------------------------------
Homebuilt trike, with electric assist
26"/20" trike, "Goanna"
SWB recumbent, 700C/451 , "Kookaburra", homebuilt.
FWD project (Cyclone).
Optima Raptor
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Re: Capreo or SRAM Dual Drive? WANTED

Postby John Lewis » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:41 pm

I'll be watching this build with interest Rob.
Still not got my LWB lowracer finished. I got sidetracked building TE clones for some friends. They are nearly out of the way so I can now finish mine. I have 2 SRAM dual drives sitting in my shed waiting for parts. In both cases the little spiral wound spring that holds the freewheel pawls has broken. You can't of course buy the 20c spring. You can only get the $50 plus replacement assembly. I'm waiting for them now and two trikes are out of action until they arrive.

Talking MBB have you seen the Python lowracer? I want to build one for the challenge of learning to ride it.

John Lewis
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Re: Capreo or SRAM Dual Drive? WANTED

Postby Freddyflatfoot » Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:02 am

John, damaged SRAM drives?
I had heard that about them, that they can fail and leave you stranded!
I think I'll go with the Capreo, mainly for simplicity and weight.
I could go a 42/55 crankset, which would give me a more respectable top end, but in the meantime, I'll throw on the old kids MTB wheel I have.
And the Python? I have heard of f few people building them, mostly with limited success in riding them though!
sounds to me more trouble than what its worth!
Best of luck with your new lowracer!
Cheers!
Rob
---------------------------------------------------
Homebuilt trike, with electric assist
26"/20" trike, "Goanna"
SWB recumbent, 700C/451 , "Kookaburra", homebuilt.
FWD project (Cyclone).
Optima Raptor
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Re: Capreo or SRAM Dual Drive? WANTED

Postby Low Racer » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:06 pm

william wrote:If you can get the dual drive you'll be laughing but the hens teeth are around here somewhere...


I have a Dahon Speed Pro that has a DD 406 rear wheel. I am loving it and won't be parting with it anytime soon though. It really works well with small wheel. I have seen them coming up on evilbay infrequently. Good luck with your project Rob. Like others I am envy of your skills. Looking forward to read your ride report.
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Re: Capreo or SRAM Dual Drive? WANTED

Postby Freddyflatfoot » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:13 pm

John, why did you have to mention MBB bikes?
I haven't finished this one yet, and I found myself dreaming about a MBB bike, and a FWD folder!
I think I have an over active imagination!
Mind you, I do have an old 20" folder sitting in the shed...................................................
Cheers!
Rob
---------------------------------------------------
Homebuilt trike, with electric assist
26"/20" trike, "Goanna"
SWB recumbent, 700C/451 , "Kookaburra", homebuilt.
FWD project (Cyclone).
Optima Raptor
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Re: Capreo or SRAM Dual Drive? WANTED

Postby william » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:49 pm

Rob!
I think a well designed mbb bike would work well but may need a lot of engineering trial and error to be comfortable with it. The Cruzbikes (except Silvio) require a "relearning to ride" break in period. This may be in part due to the steering angle being somewhat conventional and the cranks being forward of that. This generates the imbalance to be balanced by arm counter action. In other words, if you're pushing with the right foot, you have to pull with the right arm on the bars. It also teaches you to spin better to be a more efficient cyclist. With the Zockra, the steering angle is much longer and the cranks are much lower tending to not induce pedal steer as much. Tom Traylor also used a relaxed head tube angle but something like 60 degrees with the bottom bracket about level with the seat. They do have some good advantages like your foot will never hit the wheel whilst steering (normally) and a tight turn is just as easy as any bike. Interesting. Again, in normal riding you're not likely to be riding an obstacle course.

William.
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Re: Capreo or SRAM Dual Drive? WANTED

Postby John Lewis » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:31 pm

Freddyflatfoot wrote:John, why did you have to mention MBB bikes?
I haven't finished this one yet, and I found myself dreaming about a MBB bike, and a FWD folder!
I think I have an over active imagination!
Mind you, I do have an old 20" folder sitting in the shed...................................................


I'm just EVIL Rob. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I've tried a Cruzbike conversion. The owner didn't like it much but I thought it was fun.

The Python apparently has quite a learning curve. It has opposite trail to normal and I think has a speed restriction due to that but its way above any speed I'd ride. Secondly the handlebar is only there to hang the brakes and shifters on. The steering is largely done by the feet. Bit like a unicycle with a Bob trailer and you sitting on the Bob. I wil build one sooner or later though.

I have plans here for a Flevobike too.

John Lewis
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FWD Hurri on its way!

Postby Freddyflatfoot » Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:55 pm

Did some work on the build today, enough for a short trial ride!
Weather was very ordinary, so I spent some time in the shed, mounting the seat, making up the handlebars, adding crankset, and chain.
Only added a friction shifter for the RD, and a rear brake for the test ride. (Well, for the first test ride, I had no brakes!)
Bike seemed easy enough to ride, and I seem to have the seat, handlebars, and crank, pretty much in the right place.
I only did some low speed riding, but already I can see some limitations on tight turns. I also had some heel interference with the RD, and the RD stops need adjusting! I kept dropping the chain back petween the cluster and the spokes. :(
I also needed to modify the return idler mount, as It was the same height as the power side idler, and the chains were rubbing together.
I'll make some adjustments, add the front brakes, and FD, and do some more testing.
here's a pic I took before I added the chain, shifter and back brake.
Image
Cheers!
Rob
---------------------------------------------------
Homebuilt trike, with electric assist
26"/20" trike, "Goanna"
SWB recumbent, 700C/451 , "Kookaburra", homebuilt.
FWD project (Cyclone).
Optima Raptor
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Re: FWD Hurri on its way!

Postby Low Racer » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:39 am

Freddyflatfoot wrote:I also had some heel interference with the RD, and the RD stops need adjusting! I kept dropping the chain back petween the cluster and the spokes. :(


Interesting. Never occur to me that FWD could have a RD interference. I am sure with your knowhow, you will overcome these little setbacks in no time. Keep the pics coming Rob. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Capreo or SRAM Dual Drive? WANTED

Postby John Lewis » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:49 pm

Looks like you may need shorter cranks Rob. I guess the problem is heel interference with the derailler due to the lower position of the BB than seems usual on FWDs. Looks like it's coming along well.

John Lewis
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Re: Capreo or SRAM Dual Drive? WANTED

Postby Freddyflatfoot » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:08 pm

Yep John, was thinking the same thing!
The cranks that are on there are 165mm, so I may just add some 152mm cranks.
Right turns are a bit restricted too.
Here's a couple more pics,
Image
Image
Image
Cheers!
Rob
---------------------------------------------------
Homebuilt trike, with electric assist
26"/20" trike, "Goanna"
SWB recumbent, 700C/451 , "Kookaburra", homebuilt.
FWD project (Cyclone).
Optima Raptor
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Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:50 am
Location: Ballarat, Victoria

Re: Capreo or SRAM Dual Drive? WANTED

Postby Freddyflatfoot » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:10 pm

Yep John, was thinking the same thing!
The cranks that are on there are 165mm, so I may just add some 152mm cranks.
Right turns are a bit restricted too.
Here's a couple more pics,
Image
Image
Image
Cheers!
Rob
---------------------------------------------------
Homebuilt trike, with electric assist
26"/20" trike, "Goanna"
SWB recumbent, 700C/451 , "Kookaburra", homebuilt.
FWD project (Cyclone).
Optima Raptor
User avatar
Freddyflatfoot
 
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:50 am
Location: Ballarat, Victoria

Re: Capreo or SRAM Dual Drive? WANTED

Postby jpreichardt » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:03 am

About Python I made it only by the challenge.

http://www.geocities.com/joao.preichardt/index.html

In the site above you can see the details.

PS.: To ride is very hard, but I elieve that's possible.

JP
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Re: Capreo or SRAM Dual Drive? WANTED

Postby seriously4fun » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:37 pm

New to this forum but as I was researching my next bike to build, well the first bike I will completely build, I came across your FWD challenge copy, cobra etc.
This is exactly the bike I wanted to build and am searching for parts as I write this. I have a couple of questions based on frame design, pipe bends etc. I suppose you are using chrome molly 3140 0.9mm wall 50mm round tubing etc. Are those frame bends from a pipe bender or from an exhaust place? Reason! I calculated the bends that I needed which would be around 10cm radius internal circumference etc, I have wondered where I can get the bends done. I am also considering buying a cheap bender.
Further I checked on a front chainring and decided to put in a 68t as the highest gear. This would approximate to the gearing found but the price of that jumps enormously. The 65t is the next option. I can understand using a capreo hub or sram dual would definitely simplify the gearing but is that the reason why you wanted that configuration or will there be a problem with using 3 chainrings up front with FWD.
Your rear suspension looks great.
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Re: Capreo or SRAM Dual Drive? WANTED

Postby Poiter » Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:09 pm

You wont get 50mm x 0.9mm 4130 cro mo bent anywhere I reckon.
Maybe in 1.2mm wall and then in 44mm.
A cheap bender wont do it.
Exhaust tube benders will make the tube look like an exhaust pipe.
There's a specialist in Sydney RJ Walsh that makes trotting sulkies but he would have a minimum order for setup.
http://www.rjwalsh.com.au/tube.html
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