Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Recumbents and all feet forward machines

Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby Storm » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:15 pm

Yeah Australia, Performer recumbent importers in sydney has recently brought a few of these FWD Lowracers in, I've been waiting for something like this and was eyeing the TW Cobra but did worry about the single sided swingarm and no local importer, There are some Performer LRs available in Australia now as i queried Yeah Australia for a price (two versions 406/451 etc, $1700/1900) so I think I might talk to the bank(Mrs:), any opinions of the reputation of Yeah Australia or the performer FWD.
http://www.performer.com.tw/2010/user/product_2.php?wp=05&sno=00068
Last edited by Storm on Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
~~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,
~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)
User avatar
Storm
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:40 am
Location: Adelaide

by BNA » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:22 pm

BNA
 

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby Poiter » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:22 pm

There are a few in Canberra and one in Portland V.
A new seller Natural Engine Speed Shop (NESS) in Canberra has wide range and actually knows about recumbents.
I've ridden one and helped with some modifications but after the cleat rebuff, I say nuthink.
User avatar
Poiter
 
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Location: Canberra

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby Storm » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:09 pm

After the rebuff???

If you've ridden one please would you give your opinion, I'm planning to get one and have already placed a non committal order for the 451 version.

Is the owner happy with it??
~~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,
~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)
User avatar
Storm
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:40 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby Storm » Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:30 am

Image

Image
~~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,
~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)
User avatar
Storm
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:40 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby Poiter » Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:47 am

User avatar
Poiter
 
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Location: Canberra

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby nessbike » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:57 pm

I think the link Poiter posted gives a good review. I've been riding a 406 version for about 4 months ~ 3 000 km and very happy with it. I've re-geared mine to run a triple - tried a compact set up for a while but got sick of double shifting. The triple leaves a high cadence low option to deal with FWD wheel spin on greasy climbs. Smooth pedaling is the word. All in all great value for money for the base bike that leaves financial room for tweaking gearing etc. Did think about the 45 version to up the gearing, but everything else I have is 9 spd so wasn't keen to go 10 spd at this point.
As an aside I'm also riding a Reach folder which is fitted with 451s and a capreo hub and it does seem to provide that bit extra in the gearing on the road for what its worth.
User avatar
nessbike
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:16 pm

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby Storm » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:44 pm

Thanks Poiter sounds like he's a happy customer, I've opted for the upgrade model (PLR-U)in black, I think I'll change the shifters from the ends to the fingers(I like the trigger type), I've asked Andy to ask Performer to supply a carbon seat and a larger chainring before they send it. Nessbike (is it Alex?)What about the eppilation? is it as bad as Paul makes it out?
~~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,
~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)
User avatar
Storm
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:40 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby nessbike » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:56 am

Yes its Alex. I just ride in 3/4 longs all the time and don't notice a problem. I'm getting a definite wear patch on the inside of the right legs of the 3/4s and now have a two stage tan line on the legs but haven't had to drag out the razor or the wax yet! I've actually replaced the drive idler with a terracycle one - had a minor prob with the original one as the bearing came loose on a long ride causing idler wobble under load. Its actually easily fixed by either fitting a circlip behind the bearing (similar to other commercial idlers) or even a washer of appropriate size. I opted for the terracycle upgrade after chewing out a few o rings (cheap at tractor supply houses) - if you go that route you will now find they have a 12mm bearing option on their page - specific to the performer (presumably amongst others). Enjoy the ride.
User avatar
nessbike
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:16 pm

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby Storm » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:11 pm

Andy has replied...

"I am afraid our carbon seat was out of stock."

Damn that $#!+s me. I have no carbon anythings and was looking forward to my first peice.

I asked Andy if the large chain ring can be replaced with a 56-58T as I would probably need to go larger later.

"The extra price for 58/46 crank is usd 80. We got two crank leg length 170 and 172.5. Which one do you prefer."

Since then I've found
From the Sheldon Brown small wheels Capreo page...

"If you have 406 mm (20") wheels, you would need to install an 69 tooth chainring to be equivalent to a 52 tooth with common 622 mm wheels."

Now I'm thinking if I'm going to pay the 80US for the larger ring should I try for a 60T+?? I also didn't want to change the small 39T to 46T as even Alex has installed a tripple to utilise a small ring when climbing.

Also there is no comment of the crank brand changing from the Truativ Elita to something else so I assume theyre staying.

Should I just stick with the 36/52 and find a 60T when the bike arrives? Will I have problems changing gears from a small 36T to a 60T??

Finding a cheaper 60T doesn't seem easy either, I've done a few searches and most are well above $80 anyway, got any sources??

Alex can you tell what the Truativ Elitas BCD is?(do you have the same cranks?)
~~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,
~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)
User avatar
Storm
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:40 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby Storm » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:05 pm

~~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,
~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)
User avatar
Storm
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:40 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby nessbike » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:04 pm

The original crankset on the 406 FWD model was a 39/53 130 BCD. What your describing sounds like a compact set (to get a 36T inner) and is probably a 110 BCD. I originally went to a compact set running 34 /53 (I have lots of 110 bcd MTB rings around) - despite the jump the shift on the 34/53 worked surprisingly well. 36/60 may be stretching the friendship and will certainly need at least a mid length cage rear derr to pick up chain slack. Remember on a FWD the back end of the drive train is rotated through 90 degrees (upwards) so gravity has a bit more influence on the chain and its return line through the rear derr. You could experiment with 40/60 , an 11/32 cassette and a long arm derraillier which would give you a reasonable top end and still something low enough to climb with without spinning the front wheel every time you pedal. 60T is usually a specialist size, but I have found third hand in the US will do Vuleta rings up to 58 in 110 bcd that don't require sale of body organs to afford! cheers Alex
User avatar
nessbike
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:16 pm

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby Storm » Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:19 pm

Sorry my bad typo, it was a 39/52Tthat comes with the PLR, so is it viable to buy a 60T and keep the Ultegra RD and R770 FD?
~~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,
~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)
User avatar
Storm
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:40 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby nessbike » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:52 pm

common problem, just reread my post - should have read the same 39/52. I think the original rear derr will struggle with the 39/60 but try it and see. Probably best to go with a mid cage either road or mountain which ever you can find. Existing front was fine till I went to a triple. Thanks for the tip on the MOWA chain rings - their 56 should work nicely on the top of my triple without need for major mods.
User avatar
nessbike
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:16 pm

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby Kalgrm » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:31 pm

[Mod Helmet]

Storm,

Your posts to sell stuff have been removed. Please use the market place if you want to sell things.

Graeme

[/Mod Helmet]
Think outside the double triangle.
---------------------------------------
My web site: www.scenebyhird.com
---------------------------------------
The Bicycle Transportation Alliance
User avatar
Kalgrm
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 9236
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 5:21 pm
Location: Spearwood, 9km SE of Fremantle, WA

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby cycliste » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:05 pm

Just to clarify some of the things I'm discovering about this bike. If you don't like happiness look away now!

For the price, you can still afford to spend a couple of hundred on optimising the bike and STILL have a cheap bent. I think most riders will want to increase the gearing but that's all you need to do to get the potential from the low profile design.

You can't fit a bigger chainwheel than 60 because of the length of the derailleur post.

As Poit and Alex have advised, the best solution (but most expensive) to getting equivalent DF gearing is a Capreo hub. It has to be a disc hub and ICE can supply it. That will require a wheel rebuild. For the time being I'm running a 57 that I have and I've changed the cassette small cog from 12 to 11. I've had to change the der. to a long arm to take up the slack in the 11/39 combination.

I think you could fit a Schlumpf high speed drive if you don't mind hub friction and noise!

I've had an 'issue' or two with the return idler chain guide when it tended to derail when back pedalling (which you need to do when starting, to get a pedal at top.) I tossed it out and made a simple right angle chain keeper. NESS modified the idler to stop the bearing falling out and Terracycle are always an option.

The Canberra team suggested reversing the cable entry to the 'rear' derailleur. It gives a shorter, more straight cable and a cleaner look.
Front Wheel Drive is something you'll either love or hate I think. You can't be indifferent to it. The thing about the PFWD is that slacken two bolts and remove one and you have a very easy to pack recumbent. You can't do that with RWD even with S&S couplers; you have to split chains and mess around. To get the 'Voyager' option on a P-38 costs nearly as much for the extra as a whole Performer (well maybe not quite....but still...!)

This is a fabulous 20x20 low racer with a small frontal area. It's competitive with bikes like the Baron and I think it climbs better. It has less flex in the crank tube than a Baron, Seiran SL, RANS Rocket or Lynx.

Roll down testing put it a shade faster 'bare' than the P-38 with deep rim wheels and a tailbox. Put a small tailbox on it and watch the roadies weep. (Yeah yeah... you can't expect a 13 kg recumbent to climb like an 8 kg DF even if they were both ridden by overweight oldfarts!)

I have absolutely no regrets about buying this bike. It's the prettiest, fastest and CHEAPEST recumbent that I've bought. It's not my only ride and I love 'em all, but for sure the PFWD is a keeper.

Performer as a company have been as good or better to deal with than other major manufacturers that I've bought from (thanks Ann.)
cycliste
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:17 pm

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby Storm » Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:37 am

Thanks for your input cycliste, I'm looking forward to receive it now.

"For the time being I'm running a 57 that I have and I've changed the cassette small cog from 12 to 11. I've had to change the der. to a long arm to take up the slack in the 11/39 combination."

That is the problem with small wheels, what RD did you replace with?

Also what is the part number for the rubber seat mounts you used?
~~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,
~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)
User avatar
Storm
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:40 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby Poiter » Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:04 pm

My little dual 406 RWD bike performs admirably with the Capreo gearing and standard $himano Dura Ace triple 53-39-30.
OK, so I spins out a little over 50kmh but that's OK for me. There is no inefficiency in the little 9 tooth cog and drivetrain last as long as any.

Now if you could easily convert a Capreo hub to take a disk?
But that would probably end up costing as musch as the ICE Capreo hub anyway.
User avatar
Poiter
 
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Location: Canberra

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby Storm » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:03 pm

My home made SWB also has dual 20" the rear is an old 3 speed shimano internal, I have 52/40 and I never use the small ring!! I usually just stay on the big cog, there's been plenty of range for most places I encounter, obviously there's a fair gap between the 3 but it's never been a problem for me, I guess I spin out around the 50k mark, I cant spin it much past 53, too fast. :roll:
~~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,
~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)
User avatar
Storm
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:40 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby Storm » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:14 pm

I contacted the seller of the 60T MOWA chainring I listed in a previous post and unfortunatly they're only for 7-9sp chains and will not suit a 10 speed chain that the PLR-U has, does that sound right? maybe someone has other suggestions for 60T 10sp chainrings?
~~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,
~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)
User avatar
Storm
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:40 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby william » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:32 pm

Storm,
I'm not totally sure about this whole 9/10 speed suitability thing. I have a KMC 10 speed chain and a KMC X9 9 speed chain. Both measure2.2 mm between the inner plates. Width is where it changes. 9 speed-6.6mm and 10 speed-6.0mm.
Where the real differences will occur is with chain ring and cluster sprocket spacing. 9 Speed will not fit between the sprockets of a ten speed cluster.

william
william
 
Posts: 478
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:33 am
Location: Maribyrnong,Victoria

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby Storm » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:28 am

Thanks for clearing that up William I thought it should be fine as most of the large rings i'v seen listed are 9-10sp, The MOWA rings are'nt pinned or ramped, how important are they on such a large ring?
~~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,
~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)
User avatar
Storm
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:40 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby nessbike » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:31 pm

I would be surprised if you could find a ramped chain ring in that diameter - would tend to be outside the range of mainstream shimano chainrings (possibly in FSA time trail rings, but from memory they aren't ramped).
Ramps aid smoothness of shifting with index gearing. Given the size of chainring you are looking at and the spread of gears you will have you will probably experience some shifting issues as you will be working at extremes of chainring spacing and its unlikely that ramped chainrings would necessarily aid your shift. That said I tend to use a lot of aftermarket rings (vuleta/blackspire etc) and can't say I notice significant decline in shifting ability.

Another reason why Capreo hubs were developed for small wheels I would guess. gets around the oversize chainring issues.
User avatar
nessbike
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:16 pm

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby nessbike » Sat May 22, 2010 7:01 pm

Hey Storm,

taken delivery of your 451 FWD yet? Any initial comments? Rolled out 25o km on the 406 model last weekend - seems to be running nicely. Cheers Alex
User avatar
nessbike
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:16 pm

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby Storm » Sat May 29, 2010 1:37 am

Hi yes I have received the bike and I like it :D But as Performer policy the were a few issues, 1st the stand is too long and 2nd there are no shifting cables and 3rd there is no instruction manual included.

Performer have been notified and replacements are being sent.

Let me tell you that the bike came well packed in a sturdy box with no signs of physical damage and inside that continued with a good quallity well packaged product emerging.

After installing the various components I took her for a spin (39t/12T only), and immediatly noted the FWDs RH twitch every on stroke, I found that if I hold the bars tighter the motion was avoided but relax and PLR tugs to the right, definantly not a no hander bike!

Did I make the right decision?

Well I've taken her out for a few spins now with one ~16km ride, I don't feel her twitch as bad at higher speeds, also I think I'm getting used to it :?

I do like the PLR and it's a very nice bike other wise, the ride is very good and solid, the boom is fat, was it worth the upgrades? $220= BB7, SL6600 RD, R770 FD, 7900 ends, Schwalbe Duranos. I would have liked to have kept the 9 speeds extra range 11/34 cassette rather than 12/27, I don't think there's much of a difference between 451 vs 406?, I had intended to cut the bars width but the tube ends have been reamed to accept the shifters :roll: so I'll prolly switch to rapid fire.

When I get it the cables on and a few more rides in I'll be in a better position to judge :wink:
~~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,~~~ ~ @_,~,- -_-’o,
~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)~~~ ~ (*)\____/(*)
User avatar
Storm
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:40 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: Performer FWD Lowracer in Aus

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Sat May 29, 2010 4:02 pm

Great to see you getting it set-up Storm and that bike is one design I like but FWD I'm not sure about I would need to test this for myself but that is hard to do or near impossible in my neck of the woods so It's all reading then read between the lines to what others say. Keep us updated as I'm interested to hear your final thoughts on this build you have done.
}SkOrPn--7
 
Posts: 1983
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:15 pm

Next

Return to Recumbents

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU



InTouch with BNA
“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter