Toscana Trials

Recumbents and all feet forward machines

Postby Bnej » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:32 pm

europa wrote:Before I break something - SRAM twist grip shifters. They are either very stiff (being new probably) or I'm about to break them.

Do you just twist them in each direction or is there something I'm missing?


I know this one, they need a minor adjustment.

1. Remove the grips.
2. Undo the shifter pinch bolts.
3. Throw the shifters in the bin.
4. Get some decent shifters.

Twist grip shifters are an ergonomic nightmare. Not worth the trouble.
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by BNA » Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:13 pm

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Postby Hotdog » Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:13 pm

Bnej wrote:Twist grip shifters are an ergonomic nightmare. Not worth the trouble.

Perhaps, but bear in mind that recumbents can have somewhat unusual hand positions on the handlebars which can render the sorts of shifters more commonly favoured on upright bikes (e.g. trigger shifters) rather awkward. For some handlebar types twist grips may be the best option, and personally I don't think they're that bad.

As far as the stiffness is concerned, I don't know how universal it is but the SRAM X.7 twist grip shifters on The Comfy Chair have always been rather stiff. I find I really need the extra grip of cycling gloves otherwise it's difficult to shift with sweaty hands. The effort involved doesn't seem to cause any problems for my hands or wrists though.
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Postby europa » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:11 pm

I actually don't mind the twist grips on the bent - like Hotdog says, it's the unusual hand position you use, and maybe the fact that there's no pressure on your hands. Thinking about it, I can't actually see myself using trigger shifters (and I've got them on the Sow's Ear so I know what they're like).

The thing I don't like about the twist grips is that the direction of shift is opposite to what feels natural. I'm sure I'll get used to it, but it's giving me the tom tits at the moment ... not that I'm getting to ride her :(

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Postby Mulger bill » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:20 pm

Why not swap sides Richard?

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Postby europa » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:28 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Why not swap sides Richard?

Shaun


It's a bent, not twisted 8)

Dunno if it relates to this or not, but riding the bent keeps bringing out my m/c riding techniques, far more than the df ever did. On a m/c, you twist the throttle towards you to go faster ... do that with the right twist grip shifter and you go down a gear ie, slower. Going up through the gears feels like rolling off the throttle. It's weird. I must confess to being impressed by the clean changes and the easy shifting. I was expecting to be horrified by the twist grips but I'm not. Maybe in a few hundred kilometres my opinion will change.

The loooonnnnnnggggg chain is interesting - the term 'chain tension' means nothing. The bike has fallen a couple of times (blown off the sidestand, fell on me arse once, knocked over in the house) and everytime, the chain has bounced off the chain ring. Not a problem riding it ... yet.

Sorry my little princess, but I'm looking forward to you going back to your mother's so I can ride my new toy :oops:

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Postby Mulger bill » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:12 pm

~Just a suggestion.
I've only ridden two bikes with twisters and the backwards throttle issue threw me. Me mate Pete Corney swapped the shifters about on his Stumpy HT which was why I threw the idea out...

Shaun
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Postby Leigh_caines » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:14 am

On the under stearing you can't beat bar shifters
But on above I love the grip shiffters and you get use to them quick.
Mine turn easy
If yours a stiff they might be cheapos ... if so I'd be getting good ones
O no ... not updateing already
:)
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Postby Kalgrm » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:10 am

As you already know, I dumped the twisters before they even saw the bike. Instead, I installed Shimano MTB dual control levers and I'm very happy I did so. I'm not suggesting you follow my lead with this bike (since it's a "starter bike") but it's worth keeping the upgrade in mind for future reference.

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Postby europa » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:07 am

Saw a video today of an OSS bike with bar end shifters. Wonder how they work.

The bars on the Flying Hampster are very close to my chest - yes, I've been fiddling with the adjustment but that makes them higher as well - and I'm really not sure that trigger shifters would be the way to go.

Anyway, I'm trying not to spend money at the moment, certainly not on a new bike. The twist grip shifters actually work quite well ... even if I do keep turning them the wrong way. No urge to change them.

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Postby Kalgrm » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:47 am

(Shimano dual control levers are like "brifters" - brake lever and gear lever are one and the same).
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Postby Mulger bill » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:52 am

Good idea as long as they're not that Rapid Rise shite, who the hell wants to upshift under brakes :roll:

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Postby europa » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:57 am

It sounds like I need a lesson on mtb shifters with photos as I'm beginning to realise I'm missing some links.

The Sow's Ear has 'Rapid Fire' shifters - small lever you pull with your forefinger to change to a lower cog and big lever you push with your thumb to go the other way. These are all in one unit with the brakes and work very well ... except for the learning curve, it took me months to get used to changing the damned things the way. I can see this happening with the twist grip shifters.

The mtb I had for awhile had basically the same system but with shifters and brake levers seperate. These too worked well ... though not as well as they could because Michael tried to 'fix' them and that led to problems, which are no longer a problem for me because he's got the bike back again :twisted:

How do your shifters fit into that Graeme?

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Postby Mulger bill » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:32 pm

Graemes not here so I'll have a go...

Shamino STI "brifters" have the shift mech integrated with the lever between the blade and pivot. Pushing the lever down pulls cable, flicking it upwards releases cable.

"Rapid Rise" why did they bother :?: Uses a low normal rear mech so pulling cable gets you to a higher gear.

Hope this helps.

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Postby Kalgrm » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:04 pm

I'm not in the same state as my 'bent, but here are some older shots of my shifters which may help.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Why did Shimano bother with low normal shifting? Because they stuffed it up years ago when they went with high normal ....

Low normal was what the original derailleurs used 60 or 70 years ago. Someone tried a different format and thought it worked well. Maybe it did, with the lower quality springs and poorer tolerances in machining in those days.

The story is different now: using low normal gearing is bloody fantastic! Firstly, because utilising the spring on the RD prevents "forced" changes which can break chains and RDs, and secondly, because both gear levers act the same way (the same button or flick on both the L & R shifter moves your gearing to a higher or lower ratio). It works and I'm not going back to high normal gearing without a bunch of kicking and screaming! It's the only thing Shimano has done right in years. :D

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Postby europa » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:31 pm

So, trying to understand this.

You've got the brake lever. You pull that brake lever towards the bars and the brakes come on.

You push that same brake lever towards the centre of the bike (with your fingers) to pull the derailleur onto a larger cog.

You use the back of your fingers to push that same brake lever out from the bike to allow the derailleur to 'fall' onto a smaller cog ...or is there a button that I'm not recognising that you press to do the change (a bit like the Sora set up) :?

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Postby Kalgrm » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:43 pm

On the Rapid Rise (low normal) system, pushing the lever towards the frame (either lever) provides a higher ratio gear (faster gear). Flicking it away from the frame lowers the ratio.

It's possible to change up to three rear cogs (big cog to small cog) with one push of the right lever. That's why Shimano call it "Rapid Rise". It clicks down one cog at a time, but you can click all the way down (from the 11t to the 26t cogs, 9 speed) in less than two seconds (in other words, you don't need to wait for one gear to be reached before you swap to the next one). It's like clicking your mouse - how many times can you click it in a second? I've been told you can even down-shift while sitting at the lights: the gears won't change until you start pedalling, but I haven't tried it myself (too conservative!)

You are right about the brakes: squeezing the lever towards the grips applies the brakes.

Cheers,
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Postby europa » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:56 pm

Well I'll be stuffed. I've been trying to work out how to get roadie STi levers to work on the thing and Shimano have already done it for me. I had no idea such a thing existed ... which would explain why I missed it when you mentioned it ages ago.

Bloody hell Graeme, I'm trying to be sooo good about spending money. I could live with twist grips thinking the alternative was those trigger/lever systems, but a real life STi system ... **hoooooowwwwwwlllllllll**

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Postby Kalgrm » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:57 pm

:twisted: :twisted:

:wink:
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Postby Kalgrm » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:59 pm

I should also mention the following: $$

I think my XT Dual Control levers cost me around $220 from Chain Reaction. It really sucks to want good stuff .....

Cheers,
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Postby Kalgrm » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:48 am

Richard,

Did your first efforts look like the reporter's ones in this video? Mine sure did!

(Just to show you're not alone in not being able to stay upright to start with ....)

Cheers,
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Postby Mulger bill » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:08 pm

I stand by my bitching about low normal. As I said, downshiftimg under brakes approaching a corner must be hard to frickin' impossible if you have to flick the lever upward while there's a finger or two wrapped around it, tho' it might be useful on SRAMs X gen shift pods. I'd hate it on a roadie.

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Postby MountGower » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:50 pm

I wonder when he's going to fall asleep riding this thing?
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Postby europa » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:02 pm

MountGower wrote:I wonder when he's going to fall asleep riding this thing?


Dunno about that but I've had a go at freezing in sheer terror :shock:

This weekend she'll get another run ... in 40 degree heat apparently. Hope the steel frame doesn't melt.

Richard
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Postby Leigh_caines » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:21 pm

Fear not...
after 50y.o. it's all down hill...
you'll never have to get out of the seat again
lay back and enjoy it.
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Postby Birdman » Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:42 pm

Now all we need is the photo of you in your skyblue shirt beside a brick wall. :lol:

Any adjustments to it yet.

I imagine you are liking it?

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SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKYS. NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS.

Until next time...
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