Living with a velomobile

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Rhubarb » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:02 am

nitramluap wrote:It's interesting looking at the photos and seeing all the subtle differences from my Mango. They're clearly putting in a lot of tweaks to improve the design. It not only looks neater but it appears that they've designed it to require less adjustment (or that adjustment is easier). The brake lever looks much neater and the bottom bracket & derailleur mount has been redesigned.



Having owned yours for a year now, what other options do you think they should look at?

Here's my list:
1) I think they should offer a carbon body option. You can get a carbon Quest or a carbon Strada for 1200 euros and saves 4 kgs.
2) Ultegra Di2 (electronic shifting) would be a natural fit for a high end velo. Would make the joystick even neater and the cabling should be neater and maybe lighter too.
3) Better lighting. I'm sure they could install those Philips 80 Lux LBL units somehow. Maybe a move to Lipo batteries too. I want really strong lights with good optics, properly integrated into the nose and dashboard of my Mango.

Ironic isn't it that I want all these extras available when I can't yet afford what they have available today :)
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by BNA » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:04 am

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby nitramluap » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:04 am

Rhubarb wrote:
nitramluap wrote:I found another bicycle classifieds with pictures of it when I was at work yesterday - I forgot to bookmark it! If I find it, I'll post it here. There where about 4 photographs and none of them were taken in the area the velomobile claimed to reside in. It's possible that it is a recent immigrant.



Here's the link I think you're talking about: http://bicyclingaustralia.com/classifieds/view/6694/

I emailed the seller yesterday to see if its still for sale. No response as yet.

I agree its either dodgy or a recent immigrant, since the mirror is on the left side of the Mango, the photo on the bike path shows it on the right hand side of a 2 way path, and they quote in miles and lbs for its odometer and weight. They give its build number (Mango # 261) so no doubt you could check with Sinner. I'm sure they'd respond promptly to an email enquiry .....

If it turns out to be a genuine immigrant, I'll go and check it out. Its not my ideal configuration but could be very interesting and fun to DIY mod if I could get it cheap enough. I wouldn't pay $6k for it though since it doesn't come with roof etc. By the time I upgraded / installed a few extras it would be nearly the cost of a new one.

If I hear back from "Edward" I'll let you know.


Yes, that was the site! Keep us posted. If you want someone to come with you to inspect it, let me know. I'd be happy to have a look.
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby nitramluap » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:12 am

Rhubarb wrote:
nitramluap wrote:It's interesting looking at the photos and seeing all the subtle differences from my Mango. They're clearly putting in a lot of tweaks to improve the design. It not only looks neater but it appears that they've designed it to require less adjustment (or that adjustment is easier). The brake lever looks much neater and the bottom bracket & derailleur mount has been redesigned.



Having owned yours for a year now, what other options do you think they should look at?

Here's my list:
1) I think they should offer a carbon body option. You can get a carbon Quest or a carbon Strada for 1200 euros and saves 4 kgs.
2) Ultegra Di2 (electronic shifting) would be a natural fit for a high end velo. Would make the joystick even neater and the cabling should be neater and maybe lighter too.
3) Better lighting. I'm sure they could install those Philips 80 Lux LBL units somehow. Maybe a move to Lipo batteries too. I want really strong lights with good optics, properly integrated into the nose and dashboard of my Mango.

Ironic isn't it that I want all these extras available when I can't yet afford what they have available today :)


1) They do but I think you have to ask for it. A young guy in the USA (Martha's Vineyard) has recently received his full carbon Mango so I *know* they make them. It's lighter but more expensive and (touch wood) should you damage it, it is much more difficult to repair. Fibreglass can be repaired by boatbuilders... and there are plenty of those in Australia! The Carbon Mango does sure look pretty on the inside though! :D

2) Yes, I'm sure you could do it and they might like to do it as a test vehicle (not aware of any with Di2 yet). The only downside is that when the electrics die (battery or fault) you're in a bit of strife in a 30kg velomobile! The advantage of the default setup is that repairs are easy and anyone can do them on the road... I think the Di2 shifters are quite reliable now though.

3) I'm sure they could arrange something with the Philips headlight. With the B&M IQ Speed I have enough light to see where I'm going at night and the extra (head mounted) light adds more than I need but I appreciate some people like much, much more light! ;) The other advantage of the head mounted extra light is that I can point it where I want (ie. tight corners) as opposed to the light pointing in the direction of the Mango - they're like car headlights.
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Rhubarb » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:39 am

nitramluap wrote:
1) They do but I think you have to ask for it. A young guy in the USA (Martha's Vineyard) has recently received his full carbon Mango so I *know* they make them. It's lighter but more expensive and (touch wood) should you damage it, it is much more difficult to repair. Fibreglass can be repaired by boatbuilders... and there are plenty of those in Australia! The Carbon Mango does sure look pretty on the inside though! :D

Links / pics / details please !!!

nitramluap wrote:2) Yes, I'm sure you could do it and they might like to do it as a test vehicle (not aware of any with Di2 yet). The only downside is that when the electrics die (battery or fault) you're in a bit of strife in a 30kg velomobile! The advantage of the default setup is that repairs are easy and anyone can do them on the road... I think the Di2 shifters are quite reliable now though.

3) I'm sure they could arrange something with the Philips headlight. With the B&M IQ Speed I have enough light to see where I'm going at night and the extra (head mounted) light adds more than I need but I appreciate some people like much, much more light! ;) The other advantage of the head mounted extra light is that I can point it where I want (ie. tight corners) as opposed to the light pointing in the direction of the Mango - they're like car headlights.


The existing Philips 80 Lux LBL needs an amatuer hack to make it work with external battery, remote switches etc. Its very doable, just not commercially viable / robust enough yet for Sinner.

How will your helmet mounted lights go with your hood ? :mrgreen: That will take cabin lighting to a whole new level.
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby nitramluap » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:29 am

Rhubarb wrote:Links / pics / details please !!!


He's on Facebook (not sure if these photos will be visible to you here). His name is Trey Araujo

Rhubarb wrote:The existing Philips 80 Lux LBL needs an amatuer hack to make it work with external battery, remote switches etc. Its very doable, just not commercially viable / robust enough yet for Sinner.

How will your helmet mounted lights go with your hood ? :mrgreen: That will take cabin lighting to a whole new level.


Yes, that would be a bit bright! :)
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:27 am

Thanks John for the links those images I hadn't came across yet of the touring Mango but it makes sense to purchase everything in one hit that being the Flevo roof. Good to see Pauls's keen eye picking up improvements from when he purchased his so you have even got me all excited waiting to get your report and images John.

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:04 pm

Rhubarb wrote:
Hi John,

How did you find the link to the Mango Tour photos? There is no link to those photos anywhere on their website - at least none that I could find. I found another link to other customers velos in various stages of build, via the german velomobile forum. But even this did not include these Mango Tour photos.

So I'm wondering how many other hidden photos / info there is, and how to find them all ?


Arjen at Sinner sent me the link in an email.

John
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:26 pm

Here's a bit about Mango 261. Seems it is/was in California. It wasn't sold I don't think until after ROAM.
I recall seeing that photo on BROL but can't find it now.

http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageb ... hp?t=66907
http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageb ... velomobile
http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageb ... post799725

edit: I have asked over on BROL in the Velo forum.

edit: Looked further
http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageb ... ight=Mango
Thread shows fraudulent ad of Velofellows 261 on Ebay. The Ebay has been removed.
From this thread we can I think assume the listing on Gumtree and Bicycling are scams.

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Rhubarb » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:32 am

Thanks John,

I was going to report that classified ad as dodgy, only to find it has now dissappeared from that site.

PS How do these scams actually work? If you don't actually have the bike, how do you get the money? Would anyone really hand over $6000 without having seen the velo first?
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Rhubarb » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:03 am

John,

I noticed that Mango came with 150mm cranks. As an experienced recumbent trike rider, did you consider shorter cranks (I assume standard is same as DF bike ie 175mm etc) ?
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:05 am

Hi Rhubarb,
Fred on BROL confirms a scam and pressed the report button. He thought if a few of us did it it would go. Seems his one was enough unless a few others hit the button without commenting.

As I mentioned earlier, I'd also seen a similar ad from the same area for a Mango Sport RE. Probably same scammer.
Not sure how the scam works. May be they ask for a deposit or get your money up front and disappear with it. I did read about it a while back but cant recall details. Usually involved some fakery via Western Union or PayPal as I recall.

John
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:16 am

Rhubarb wrote:John,

I noticed that Mango came with 150mm cranks. As an experienced recumbent trike rider, did you consider shorter cranks (I assume standard is same as DF bike ie 175mm etc) ?


Short cranks seem to be popular. I've not used them although with my shorter legs I might benefit. Greenspeed had an article about it that may still be on their site. I think it allows easier spinning but you need to gear down a bit possibly. In a SWB it can help prevent heel strike.

Has been some talk on BROL. A search there might show something up.
I just searched on benefits short cranks and a heap came up as it did when I searched Google with benefits short cranks velomobile.

I wonder if Q Rings or similar would help. I know some tried Rotor Cranks at one time. I know there were some users of Q Rings on this board. Maybe somebody will see this and chime in.

John
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:45 pm

Q-rings are not for everyone and some call BS on them but I'm no scientific expert I can only give an opinion from my own use. I find that everything the company says about Q-rings for me is in fact true they do deliver getting you out of the dead spot faster but after short period of use you don't notice it it's just a natural feeling. Where you do feel the dead spot big time is with a 22T round granny ring from a triple crank when climbing so this is where I can give you assurances you pass that dead spot faster using Q-rings.

If any of you remember the old days of square taper cranks with a cotter pin when the cotter pin had worn and when you peddled you get to that point that the crank arm would jerk forward then stop until the next stroke you come to at the same point that is the feeling of a dead spot. To test this anyone with a triple climb a fairly good incline in the granny gear without spinning just slowing turn the pedals over and you will get that lunge forward feeling of a worn cotter pin due to the dead spot. Now when I replaced my granny with a Q-ring this feeling almost disappeared doing the same test without spinning. Now if you spin like you should you won't feel that ever small dead spot in the pedal stroke with Q-rings and when using the larger Q-ring chainrings your not going to pick up any dead spot in your pedal stroke.

One thing I will say using the larger Q-rings is I did notice a big improvement over smoothness of peddling and only having one bike with Q-rings it's noticeable when I jump on the others in the fleet with round chainrings. One other thing Q-rings will help you with is the ease on the back stroke or lifting of the pedals because on the forward stroke you will increase the power due to the larger diameter portion of the ring but of the back stroke the ring is of the smaller diameter aiding you as a rider.

Coming from a MTB background I have always used 175mm cranks and took that with me onto recumbents which I have no issue with as I like the power I can put on a crank being longer. However I have ordered a new set of 3D cranks from Rotor but decided at the last minute to see what all the fuss about shorter cranks are so while lashing out some coin on a new set of cranks because I want to retire my others to another bike I opted to get 165mm.

I have no idea what I'm in for but I can understand the mechanics behind it so this may well turn out to be great or an expensive experiment I wish I never entered into using 165mm. I'm still waiting on the cranks to be delivered due to a delay in getting the short versions but when I have them fitted and tested I will give my candid opinion.

Ricky
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:18 pm

Ricky, I recall we had mentioned the Q rings earlier in the thread. Interesting to get some further insight into them though with the light of experience. I just might have to get a chunk of marine grade ali and make one to try, using Giles Puckett's Spaceley Sprocket programme.

I don't recall if we've had these links before so will post them here. Sinner Mango Velomobile review by David Hembrow. It is in two parts.
http://hembrow.eu/personal/sinnermango.html
Here is a link to the owner's manual PDF in English just for good measure.
http://hembrow.eu/personal/EnglishMangoManual.pdf

John
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:42 pm

John your on the right path in making your own and for me this is the next step because Q-rings are just over board in price and I have the skill to produce them so take my advice do so yourself you also have the skill and save some coin. I think your right I may have just repeated myself because I'm now sure we have had this talk you have just jogged my fading memory. :D Also you getting the Mango will be a great time to consider making and tinkering with chainrings.

Thanks for the links this is going to give me some reading material for tonight but I'm scared I have so many projects on the go your starting to get me thinking more and more about this.

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby GWH74 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:38 pm

This is a great thread and I would love to get (even build) a Velomobile. Certainly turn a few head in Adelaide.
I will be in Amsterdam at the end of April for a couple of days so I am thinking of riding out to Dronten and visiting Velomobiel.nl
After all the net searching that I have been doing I do think the Mango is the pick of the bunch (bad pun) due some nice design features, just not 100% sold on the rear cowling. The rear of the Quest or Even the Tri-sled Sorcerer looks nicer.
The Quest has poor turning circle (enclosed wheels) and poor front suspension geometry (bad scrub radius).
I really like the jack shaft arrangement in the Mango. Even though it adds a little bit of friction it simplifies the rear suspension, makes a single sided wheel possible (simple tire fixes) and keeps the chain cleaner.

Will be great to hear feedback once the ordered Mangos are finished and arrive in Asutralia
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:44 pm

nitramluap wrote:
Marx wrote:I thought bicycles (and laws relating to them) had two wheels.
Wearing a helmet in a velomobile is like being indoor during a rain shower under a umbrella.



No, a bicycle is any human powered vehicle driven by pedals with two or more wheels. Only unicycles seem to be excluded... and this could force them under the umbrella of a 'wheeled recreational device' for which you don't need a bicycle helmet but you are restricted as to where you can take it. :(


I agree that a literal interpretation of two wheels seems to be the exception. But, while it makes no sense to me, I am struck that most definitions that I have seen, both in Australia and overseas, fairly consistently limit bicycles to 2 or 3 wheels despite the existence of four wheel bents and peddle cars. I see the same in non-traffic-regs definitions by various government authorities such like the Kings Park Board, transport authorities, etc.

As I said, it makes no particular sense.
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:17 pm

There seems to always be anomalies in laws because they don't keep up with progress.
One example in the US is a state where in theory most recumbents would be illegal as the pedals are too high off the ground. The original law was aimed at the Penny Farthing.
In W.A. we have the odd one about white rear mudguards. (recently repealed I believe.)
We still require pedal reflectors even though pointless on a recumbent because they face up and down.
There was a minimum handlebar width that would make a Mango velo illegal as it would a lot of lowracers. I think that has been altered. Don't know if they shortened it enough to get the bents in though.
One thing you can do though, Colin, is take your Unicycle on the bus. :)

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby nitramluap » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:26 am

Here is the one month old Mango in Melbourne... someone spotted him, took a photo, tweeted it and the folks at Treadlie Magazine directed him to me! :D

PHOTO

I know this chap... he was cruising at 45km/h here!

So it is now official. There are TWO Mangos in Australia!! :D
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:04 pm

Hopefully soon to be three.
Now we need to get him to come post here and tell us all about it.
Sounds like he must be a fairly strong rider .
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Baalzamon » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:27 pm

Well eventually by what's going on here in this thread I reckon it will be more than 3 and I could be one of the culprits :oops:
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby nitramluap » Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:21 am

Little fairies have told me another one has just been ordered in Brisbane... with yet another one potentially to follow soon! :D
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby burnt » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:42 am

I've just ordered a Mango, so will be number 2 in Bris I think! Oh the notoriety!
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:07 pm

nitramluap wrote:Little fairies have told me another one has just been ordered in Brisbane... with yet another one potentially to follow soon! :D


Yes the same little birdie emailed me with the news. Didn't want to say anything as I didn't know if he wanted it mentioned yet.
And another? Yes I think I know who that might be too.
If Baalzamon comes aboard we may have 6. Breeding lie rabbits.
At this rate we'll have more velo's than NL in no time. :D :D
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:19 pm

nitramluap wrote:Here is the one month old Mango in Melbourne... someone spotted him, took a photo, tweeted it and the folks at Treadlie Magazine directed him to me! :D

PHOTO

I know this chap... he was cruising at 45km/h here!

So it is now official. There are TWO Mangos in Australia!! :D


Don't you have to wear a skid lid in Melbourne while using a Velo as the rider appears not to have one.

burnt wrote:I've just ordered a Mango, so will be number 2 in Bris I think! Oh the notoriety!


What the hell!!!!........one post and you have a Mango now bugger off and come back when I have one this is ridiculous this is just adding more pressure to a very unstable person as it is with all this Mango talk around here lately. :wink: Now I'm really jealous but having said that welcome and congrats.

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