Living with a velomobile

[jet-ski]

yeah, one wheeled trailers aren't much good for dogs tho.... and probably too small for mine!

notice that velomobile has a 500W electric assist so not legal in Aust

[Joeblake]

If the dog's big enough then make IT pull you.



Joe

[John Lewis]

Well I finally made up my mind and ordered a Mango like Paul's in Brisbane. It took ages to get a reply from the manufacturer but they said I might get it before year end so I sent off the deposit. Its a month now and despite a few emails and an abortive phone call with a bad line compounding my poor hearing (Think they said they'd call back but I heard nothing) I am yet to be informed I'm on the list for a build.
Its a lot of loot but I can't take it with me and at my age who knows what tomorrow will bring so I decided to get one. I had an aeroplane that I sold so I'm using some of what I got for that.

Here is the Sinner site. I'm going for the Red Edition.

http://www.go-mango.nl/indexuk.html


https://picasaweb.google.com/ligfietsga ... directlink


Here's an interesting one I saw on BROL a while back. Be a bit draggy but I like the look.


Joe. I was interested in a Glyde for a long time. They ended up pretty heavy and the price went through the roof. I think GS have canned it now or so it would seem.

The Velos seem pretty practical and there are some touring versions. The Mango Tour can carry 120 litres of baggage inside and also has a trailer hitch. Set of pictures here.

details:http://www.sinnerbikes.com/new_sinner_mango_tour/album/slides/DSCF3470.html

Roll over America was a Velo run from Portland Oregon to Washington DC. Heaps of vids and YouTubes. If they can do that in the time they did then they are winners in my book.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL ... re=viewall

http://picasaweb.google.com/10148680102 ... /ROAM11PDX

Anyway for me the impatience is setting in and I'm looking forward to getting the Mango. I suspect I'll be no speed demon though and might have to gear it down. I've been practicing with a load on the trike in the form of 18kg of dog in a trailer. I manage that fine so I think I should be OK. Mango weighs 27.5 kg and my trike is 20 plus dog and trailer.

Hope this hasn't strayed too far off topic.

John

[jet-ski]

Nope, a greyhound who can only run for 60 sec intervals and couldn't pull anyway, and a lab x who I wouldn't trust to pull due to his multiple noise phobias and short attention span.... dogs are 28kgs each

[John Lewis]

If the dog's big enough then make IT pull you.



Joe

Our kelpie could pull the trike at 20 kmh for km's on end when she was a pup. It was great fun but now she has been trained to not pull on the leash. Big mistake.
John

[Joeblake]

It was great fun but now she has been trained to not pull on the leash. Big mistake.
John

First time I've heard of training your dog properly turn around and bite you.

Joe

[jet-ski]

John Lewis - completely off topic, but does she walk in harness or on a collar? You can teach the dogs the difference between behaviour when the collar is on and the harness is on. Collar = heel nicely, and harness = pull. My boy knows when he is on his tracking harness it's time for head down and find that person hiding in the trees.... different from normal walking around the neighbourhood, which he does in a different harness.

[John Lewis]

It was great fun but now she has been trained to not pull on the leash. Big mistake.
John

First time I've heard of training your dog properly turn around and bite you.

Joe

Nah. Shes a little sweetie. . My velo will have a hitch so she can come along sometimes.

[John Lewis]

John Lewis - completely off topic, but does she walk in harness or on a collar? You can teach the dogs the difference between behaviour when the collar is on and the harness is on. Collar = heel nicely, and harness = pull. .

We usually use the harness for both. I should really get a proper harness for towing and work on some training. I mainly stopped letting her pull because I read it could be harmful without a proper harness.
Walk harness seemed ok and never seemed a problem though.

John

[jet-ski]

John Lewis - completely off topic, but does she walk in harness or on a collar? You can teach the dogs the difference between behaviour when the collar is on and the harness is on. Collar = heel nicely, and harness = pull. .

We usually use the harness for both. I should really get a proper harness for towing and work on some training. I mainly stopped letting her pull because I read it could be harmful without a proper harness.
Walk harness seemed ok and never seemed a problem though.

John

As long as the harness has a connection for the lead on the back, and isn't chafing, then it would work. Or if she doesnt' want to pull anymore you can run her alongside with a Walkydog. I run my girl (greyhound) with the walkydog but she can only go about 3ks - I'm sure your kelpie would be happy to run a lot further than that!

[bradwoodbr]

Well I finally made up my mind and ordered a Mango like Paul's in Brisbane. It took ages to get a reply from the manufacturer but they said I might get it before year end so I sent off the deposit. Its a month now and despite a few emails and an abortive phone call with a bad line compounding my poor hearing (Think they said they'd call back but I heard nothing) I am yet to be informed I'm on the list for a build.
Its a lot of loot but I can't take it with me and at my age who knows what tomorrow will bring so I decided to get one. I had an aeroplane that I sold so I'm using some of what I got for that.

John

Way to go John - you lucky sonofagun! I think you are the first in WA to get one. Since Paul has been sharing his Mango experiences, I have been thinking it is the way to go here in Perth too!

[John Lewis]

Way to go John - you lucky sonofagun! I think you are the first in WA to get one. Since Paul has been sharing his Mango experiences, I have been thinking it is the way to go here in Perth too!

Yes I'm looking forward to it.
The biggest problem for me has been communicating with Ligfiets Garage Groningen. It took me months of emails before I got a reply. It's a pity that their communications are poor . I think it shows they are busy building and don't have time for the nonsense of email etc. Pity because I hate being in the dark.

I considered a Quest. It is faster but also heavier and more of a problem with puncture repairs because the wheels are enclosed. At my age lighter is better.

I think a home made? velo was seen on the cycle paths round Perth. I saw video on the forum a while back posted by Aushiker I think.
Pete Heal emailed me an article about a cross Australia velo attempt some years back. The machines were made by Wayne Kotzer and had glass,kevlar shells. Looked a bit like the one in the vid so who knows?

[}SkOrPn--7]

John did you buy the whole caboose or just the shell? Nice purchase anyway look forward to your report.

Ricky

[John Lewis]

Hi Ricky,
Its not really a shell. The"shell" is part of the structure just like a car. I don't think you could order a shell as you'd still need all the rest. Its not a shell on a trike as say the Rotovelo and I think the Glyde are.
You can get a bit of an idea from nitramluap's walkthrough video on page one of this thread.
This cutaway of a quest will be almost exactly the same I think except the Mango has a 20" rear wheel , is a bit shorter and the wheels are exposed.



I have ordered the complete Velomobile plus the Aleweder roof and some extra mid drive sprockets so I can hopefully tailor the gearing a bit. I went for the 90 mm drum brakes rather than disks as the people with these machines say the drums are more reliable or at least not so maintenance intensive. Also asked whether it was feasible to change the gearing to use a 52- 39- 26 or 28 instead of the standard 52- 39- 30 and possibly an 11- 32 cluster instead of 11- 27 standard. I've not had anything back yet though. Not even sure that range is available in ten speed cluster. I don't want to end up with lousy shifting.
One thing I read that was interesting was the life of the chain and sprockets. If I recall correctly it was something like 25,000km because it is pretty well fully enclosed.

John

[Joeblake]

A couple of weeks ago I had my old GRT20"/26" overhauled and many parts replaced, including the wheels and drum brakes (Sturmey Archer). I figured they needed to be replaced as they were over 20 years old, and my 16"/16" GT3 had the same brakes and stopped on zac piece. However, when I took the GRT for its first ride I found the brakes had not been worn at all. It was just that drum brakes are more efficient the smaller the wheel diameter, so I was comparing 16" vs 20" wheels.

I should have remembered this from the days I owned a Roulandt LWB bike, which (being Dutch) had a 16" wheel on the front and a 28" wheel on back, both with caliper/rim brakes.



The front brakes were hopeless, until I had a drum braked wheel fitted. Then I was able to really pull up properly. (It saved my life I'm sure when going down Malcolm Street into Perth one day and the rear brake cable broke, and I managed to pull up with just the front brake before I hit the lights at Barracks Arch (which turned red during my descent.)

The velomobile is going to be a fair bit heavier than an ordinary trike (I've got batteries and motors adding a lot of extra weight), so check the braking pretty thoroughly, especially if you are going down a long hill, having to keep your speed down, and the brakes heat up. I've had my old GRT brakes get so hot that water boils off the hub instantly, and they faded pretty badly and I was reduced to dragging my heels on the ground.

If I'd had an attack of memory to the brain when I had the GRT refurbished, I would have paid the extra dosh and had discs fitted. But it's too late now.

Joe

[Rhubarb]

Hi Ricky,

I have ordered the complete Velomobile plus the Aleweder roof and some extra mid drive sprockets so I can hopefully tailor the gearing a bit. I went for the 90 mm drum brakes rather than disks as the people with these machines say the drums are more reliable or at least not so maintenance intensive. Also asked whether it was feasible to change the gearing to use a 52- 39- 26 or 28 instead of the standard 52- 39- 30 and possibly an 11- 32 cluster instead of 11- 27 standard. I've not had anything back yet though. Not even sure that range is available in ten speed cluster. I don't want to end up with lousy shifting.
One thing I read that was interesting was the life of the chain and sprockets. If I recall correctly it was something like 25,000km because it is pretty well fully enclosed.

John

John,

Congratulations !!! It must be very exciting for you. I'm very close to getting one too, although need to pay out the home loan first (still several months away).

I hear you about their email / communication skills. Abysmal !!!! I'm having a similar experience.

I have been going through a similar thought process to you it seems re options for gears and brakes etc. The maximum sprocket available is the 11-32. Get the triple with that and you'll climb just about anything. You probably have a better idea than me as I've never ridden a recumbent so only have my roadie gearing to compare to, when assessing what I'd need for some of my local hills. I have a couple of >20% ers but I can ride everything comfortably in 39-25 on my roadie so I figured gearing of 30-28 would easily compensate for the 25% increase in gross mass.

The hills in my area require stops / near stops at the bottom so good brakes are essential. I can't afford to have too much "fade" as I drop 50m elevation at -5/10% with a -15/20% finish just before a T intersection with a 4 lane main road. The low maintenance of the drums does appeal though as this will be an everyday commuter for me.

I think you will find the Mango a better option to live with than the Quest, due to manouverability and ground clearance. The Quest apparently has better aero hence 10% more speed on a flat track but I've found several reviews suggesting the Mango is just as fast in real life due to much lower weight, and just easier to live with.

The only thing I'm not happy with is the lights. I don't think their standard options are sufficient. I'm considering ordering the normal Sport, optioning up to Red spec without the built in lights, and doing that myself. I've been so busy with work and I can't buy for several months yet anyway so haven't had the time to follow this up.

I still get nervous about the low height issue though as I do need to commute through the Brisbane CBD streets. These things are actually much more visible in many situations (like low traffic, claiming the lane) but you cannot filter and split lanes as you're underneath the door window level and can easily be hidden from a car changing lanes over the top of you. I just need to think my routes through more carefully to avoid these situations. You should have this covered as an experienced triker but I'm still nervous.

Nitramluap has been excellent in helping me through most of this but a lot of these issues are particular to your personal circumstances. He's a mate of a mate as it turns out but he has become the defacto Mango ambassador in Brisbane if not Aus, as a result of his inspiring you tubes videos. I've spent a couple of Saturday nights just watching his videos back to back over a bottle of red

Anyway, enjoy the wait with the knowledge that at least you are closer than I am I'm sure it will be worth it in the end.

[Rhubarb]

One thing I read that was interesting was the life of the chain and sprockets. If I recall correctly it was something like 25,000km because it is pretty well fully enclosed.

John

Oh and the cleanliness of the drive train will blow you away !!! The day I met Nitramluap to see his mango, his chain was 4000 kms old and had been wiped and oiled every 500kms, but never removed and cleaned. The sprockets he said had never been touched. I was amazed to see them still shiny just like new, maybe even shinier !!!!! They were cleaner than my road bike drivetrain looks after a full kero bath etc.

[John Lewis]

Hi Rhubarb,
Good to see someone else looking to a velomobile. I'd be more excited if I knew definitely I was on the list. Its over a month since the deposit went so they must have it I'd think.

When it came to gears I PMed some guys from ROAM and got some good advice That is what I went with. Trouble is I'm torn between the lure of GI range vs nice close gear jumps. My trike runs 13 to 120 GI via a SRAM dual drive and I have had occasion to use them all. The Dual drive can fit to the mid drive of Mango but I don't want the complexity or reliability problems. I've had to rebuild several DD's for myself and others.

Im thinking 90mm drums should be OK. They worked on ROAM and much more hilly than we would have I suspect.I did read you need to leave the wheel covers off for disks or they will overheat and fade too. Technique will be the thing. A bit like rim brakes. I think we will need to pulse the brakes on and off so they can cool between pulses and control speed too.

Your comments on Mango are spot on. I thought there would be little difference in the real world with Quest and at my age and power weight is an issue. Lighter is better. Wish I could have afforded full carbon.

I'm going to go with the standard lights. I don't ride much at night anyway. If I need more light I'll hang on one of the Deal Extreme Cree torches I use on the other bikes. They are bright.

With regard to traffic. I'm used to riding in traffic on my low racer and equally low trike. You need to think for the drivers a bit and make sure you are where you can be seen. The novelty factor of my bikes helps there. Of course I don't know about Brisbane. My friend Geoff assures me that all motorists over there are mad and hell bent on flattening every cyclist they see.
Hope its not too long before you can get a velo. I might have to take Nitramluap up on his offer and make a trip to Bris to have a first hand look at the Mango while I wait for mine.

John

[}SkOrPn--7]

Wow John you went all out with the whole caboose that is awesome can't wait to see more of the toy when it lands just hope that you get some emails saying that yours is being packed and shipped very soon. With your talent in home built bents I'm surprised you didn't give the workshop a thrashing and make your own as I know you have the skills to do so and a perfect project for yourself.

Ricky

@Rhubarb seems that two forum members will have grins from ear to ear soon and forget the home load tell the misses to get a second job.

[John Lewis]

Hi Ricky,
Yes I've gone the whole hog.
Once I have it in hand to see how it is all done I may well have a go at a build. Trouble is it could cost near as much as buying one to do it right.

It's not too hard to make one of Coroplast. I could do that in a few days for my trike. But it is then just a trike with a shell and devoid of all the nice Velo touches. Might anyway as I was in Bunnings yesterday and saw they had Corro for sale. Pity they'd cut the sheets down. Only the black was in full sheets and I don't want that.

To do fibreglass right and light needs moulds and vacuum bagging etc and it all adds up with the cost of the learning process making a plug. Refining it etc. I think the Quest, Mango and other fast have been wind tunnel tested and optimised too.

I came across this in my searches. Ian H's take on why Velos fail the daily use test. Of course I think it is aimed at marketing a trike fairing but still interesting.
Things have changed since this was written though. Be interesting to see what Nitramluap thinks now that he has had a chance to find out.

http://www.flyingfurniture.com.au/info/ ... y-use-test

John

[Rhubarb]

Wish I could have afforded full carbon.....

John,

Is full carbon an option these guys can do? I see the Quest can do full carbon for 1200 euros and it drops about 5kgs. I don't see it mentioned on the Mango website though.

[rdp_au]

John,

Very impressed - looks to be a very nice machine, and very light considering what you get. I too, really like the idea of a velo. Alas, I've not long ago bought an ultralight, rather than selling one like you, so it will be a while before I could afford one. Look forward to hearing all about your experiences.

Regards,

David P

PS: the trusty bentech just completed another 'Gong ride here in Sydney. Still going strong and getting faster each time!

[John Lewis]

rhubarb,
Yes you could be right. I'm sure I had a price for Mango in carbon but could have been the Quest as I was looking at both while making up my mind.
The Quest in carbon is not much different in weight to the Mango Sport I think. Unless you are after every last bit of speed or bragging rights at the cafe,I guess it doesn't matter too much.

David,
Yes the impatience has already set in and I'm looking forward to it arriving. From what Nitramluap tells me it is a really great little machine. From what I've heard, once youve piloted a velomobile there is no going back.
You will have fun with the ultralight too. What kind is it? I must say I miss the flying especially the instructing which I really enjoyed doing when I had the flying school.

That bentec of yours must have a lot of kms up now. Any idea how many? Mine has been languishing a bit as I've been experimenting with the other designs. I think the LWB lowracer I made is faster but no where near as practical or comfortable.

The Gong ride eh! You must be a glutton for punishment . Seriously though, if I lived over there I'd love to take part. What sort of times did you manage?

John

[Baalzamon]

I doubt you will have it when I'm down John Would love to see it, going to be down that way in about 2 weeks time. Should have my Bacchetta sorted out by then at least. But clubagreenie I've got him hooked on trikes. You should be able to wind him in.

[John Lewis]

I doubt you will have it when I'm down John Would love to see it, going to be down that way in about 2 weeks time. Should have my Bacchetta sorted out by then at least. But clubagreenie I've got him hooked on trikes. You should be able to wind him in.

What's the best bait? We have a tadpole and a delta to try. Problem if too tall because knees will be up round ears so I'll try to find some spare chain and a couple of quick links.

No, I won't have the Velo before January I think. Still don't know if I'm on the list a month after I wired the deposit. He did say by end of year though if I got the deposit off and I have so it's wait and see.

John