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Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:13 am
by nitramluap
RonK wrote:I wonder if the pilot I saw on Saturday morning occupying the centre of the middle lane on Turbot Street realises how close he was to being wiped out from behind.


Please elaborate. Where exactly as I dont recall any issues and I watch my mirrors like a hawk. Every driver passed me with care, no aggression... Not even a hoot. The only cars that slowed down near me had passengers with cameras and they were filming.

Occupying the centre of any lane is perfectly legal and far safer than the gutter bunny cyclists I overtake regularly, particularly along there as vehicles are frequently parked in the leftmost and rightmost lanes. As I travel close to the speed limit through most of there I am not going to weave in and out of the leftmost lane. That's the sort if thing inexperienced cyclists do and is just stupid. It makes their actions less predictable for other road users.

Were you driving or cycling? If you were the driver then you should drive more carefully into the sun because if you can't see me then you cant see the road markings or mopeds either and driving faster than the conditions allow for is quite illegal...

If you were the cyclist then I doubt from your perspective that you interpreted the situation correctly. I only passed one cyclist down Turbot and he was hugging the left edge of the road, straddling the line between lanes & going straight from a few 'turn left only' lanes. If that was you then most of the time I was so far away from you (until the red lights allowed you to catch up) that a parallax error would account for your misinterpretation of the situation.

I actually turned and smiled at that cyclist as he pulled up at the lights next to me and was completely ignored as he stared into the distance. Not even a smile or a nod...

Unless my actions negatively impact a third party directly I suggest that you MYOB.

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:14 am
by RonK
I was coming down a side street (Bowen Street) when you passed. I saw a classic situation where there were two cars in line astern in the same lane you were in. The rear car was catching the front one quite rapidly, and when the front car pulled over to overtake you, the faster moving rear car had to brake quite hard and also make a sudden lane change. Perhaps the sun was in the driver's eyes, but it certainly wasn't in mine and I doubt the distance or angle affected my perception much.

I posted this message as a warning, as it's not apparent how much if any rearward visibilty your machine permits. But the tone of your response conveys an attitude of unquestionable self-righteousness and as you suggest, I will be minding my own business in future.

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:29 am
by nitramluap
RonK wrote:I posted this message as a warning, as it's not apparent how much if any rearward visibilty your machine permits. But the tone of your response conveys an attitude of unquestionable self-righteousness and as you suggest, I will be minding my own business in future.


I was in the 'centre lane' (actually the 2nd from the left of FOUR LANES) as just beyond where you saw me doing about 50km/h, the left lane turns into a 'left turn only' lane, over the crest of a small hill... but I'm sure you're aware of that. The most sensible position to be in is in the lane I was in so I do not need to change lanes when I may be hidden by the crest, nor change lanes at the last minute which many people do.

I have excellent rear visibility. I know precisely the car you are referring to and they actually didn't get very close to me at all; they saw me; they braked and passed me. I was watching behind me the whole time and I always give myself an escape route should someone not be paying attention.

The patronising tone of your original 'advice' implies that 1) I was somehow riding illegally and an unsafe manner, and 2) that I am responsible somehow for being rear-ended. Neither of those things are true. If I were to be rear ended by a bad driver it is so comforting to know I will have witnesses like you out there to imply that I deserved it somehow and that I shouldn't have been there. Self-righteousness would be a good way to describe coming to this thread and making your first post targeted and unsolicited 'advice' on how to ride.

Enjoy your day.

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:41 pm
by Riggsbie
A very succinct and accurate response !!

Nice one Paul !!

There are so many experts out there....... :P

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:22 pm
by nitramluap
OK...

Back on topic.

I've just bought a Wahoo ANT+ speed & cadence sensor which I'm going to try and wire up to the Mango so that I can have accurate speed & cadence data captured by my Garmin devices. The GPS is quite good but tends to be inaccurate at low speeds and when the signal isn't strong. I do like the simplicity of the stock wired sensors but I cannot record this data. This new sensor will be in addition to the standard computer already installed.

In order to wire up the sensor in the Mango I will have to cut and extend the cable between the cadence & speed sensor parts so that it can traverse the body neatly. I will head to Jaycar tomorrow to buy some cable and I shall record the process and upload it to YouTube if it is worthwhile. Hopefully I won't destroy the sensor in the process!

It will mean that for future videos I can overlay not just accurate speed data but also cadence (rpm) data which might be interesting.

Also bought some RainX antifog for the interior of the visor. Works well.

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:34 pm
by Joeblake
nitramluap wrote:
In order to wire up the sensor in the Mango I will have to cut and extend the cable between the cadence & speed sensor parts so that it can traverse the body neatly. I will head to Jaycar tomorrow to buy some cable and I shall record the process and upload it to YouTube if it is worthwhile. Hopefully I won't destroy the sensor in the process!


I've added "extra" cable to a couple of my sensors with no problems. Since (at least in my experience) the voltage generated by the magnet passing by the sensor coil is DC as opposed to AC, it doesn't really matter which cable end connects with which, as long as there is a voltage spike.

Just a tip perhaps. When you sever the cable(s) cut one of the wires shorter than the other by half an inch or so on both the original cable and the extra cable. this way when you solder the two cables together the joins are less likely to rub against each other and cause a short circuit.

You still need some insulation of some sort to be safe, but I find silicone sealer pretty useful.

Joe

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:45 pm
by nitramluap
Joeblake wrote:
nitramluap wrote:
In order to wire up the sensor in the Mango I will have to cut and extend the cable between the cadence & speed sensor parts so that it can traverse the body neatly. I will head to Jaycar tomorrow to buy some cable and I shall record the process and upload it to YouTube if it is worthwhile. Hopefully I won't destroy the sensor in the process!


I've added "extra" cable to a couple of my sensors with no problems. Since (at least in my experience) the voltage generated by the magnet passing by the sensor coil is DC as opposed to AC, it doesn't really matter which cable end connects with which, as long as there is a voltage spike.

Just a tip perhaps. When you sever the cable(s) cut one of the wires shorter than the other by half an inch or so on both the original cable and the extra cable. this way when you solder the two cables together the joins are less likely to rub against each other and cause a short circuit.

You still need some insulation of some sort to be safe, but I find silicone sealer pretty useful.

Joe


Thanks Joe, appreciate the advice. I was planning on using heat shrink to do a really neat job.

I was inking of trying to use the existing magnet for the wheel sensor for both this ANT+ device and the existing Cateye speed sensor. I think I can do that.

If the cadence sensor is simple just a DC spike do you think I could use the existing Cateye cadence sensor cable, splice the Wahoo sensor cable into it and have it work? That would save a lot of messing about!

Cheers,

Paul

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:53 pm
by Joeblake
I've used cables from various sensors to different computers. The difficulty/difference seems to be in the position of the contact points on the back of computer case/computer holder. I can't see any reason why splicing another cable on wouldn't work, EXCEPT if you have two devices working off the SAME sensor there may be insufficient voltage to work both simultaneously. It's a theoretical possibility. ;) (Try a little T&E - Trial and error.)

Heat Shrink wrap sounds good.

Joe

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:00 pm
by nitramluap
Joeblake wrote:I've used cables from various sensors to different computers. The difficulty/difference seems to be in the position of the contact points on the back of computer case/computer holder. I can't see any reason why splicing another cable on wouldn't work, EXCEPT if you have two devices working off the SAME sensor there may be insufficient voltage to work both simultaneously. It's a theoretical possibility. ;) (Try a little T&E - Trial and error.)

Heat Shrink wrap sounds good.

Joe


Thanks, Joe. I'll give it a try and see. I'd not considered this as an option but it just might work.

The advantage in doing it this way would be that I don't need to mount a second cadence sensor and run a long cable (that is the tricky part) to the transmitter as the cable is already where I need it. Aesthetically it would be nice to not double-up as well.

The cable to the cadence sensor only has two wires and a multimeter suggests that nothing is flowing through them from the main unit which houses the ANT+ transmitter & battery. Hopefully the magnet on the Cateye sensor will supply enough voltage for both units to detect the cadence. I'll let you know what happens! :D

Cheers,

Paul

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:08 pm
by John Lewis
I suspect that the reed switch in the pickup is completing a circuit in the device. perhaps a oneshot multivibrator or similar. Could just be a switching transistor.
In any case if you have two devices you will have to isolate one from the other. A simple diode in the right direction should do the job.

Probably you could place the ANT+ pickup alongside the existing Cateye pickup and use the same magnet to trigger both. The cable should fit through the hole where Cateye one goes. Yes, just looked. Plenty of room through the grommet. That way they are separated and no chance of a problem.

John

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:21 pm
by nitramluap
John Lewis wrote:I suspect that the reed switch in the pickup is completing a circuit in the device. perhaps a oneshot multivibrator or similar. Could just be a switching transistor.
In any case if you have two devices you will have to isolate one from the other. A simple diode in the right direction should do the job.

Probably you could place the ANT+ pickup alongside the existing Cateye pickup and use the same magnet to trigger both. The cable should fit through the hole where Cateye one goes. Yes, just looked. Plenty of room through the grommet. That way they are separated and no chance of a problem.

John


Hmm... perhaps it isn't so straightforward after all. Thanks for the advice, John. So do you think it is more likely to be a Reed Switch than an induction device? If it is the former then I'll need to wire them separately.

I was certainly going to use existing magnets to trigger both sensors if I can (for both the speed & cadence sensors) but there is still limited room in there to mount the pickups. I think I can orientate them so that they will work but it will be tight. The speed pickup for the ANT+ sensor also houses the battery & transmitter so it is quite bulky unfortunately.

I'll buy some cable tomorrow after work and extend the cable. I might need a few metres!

Cheers,

Paul

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:00 pm
by John Lewis
Hi Paul,

I'm pretty certain that the pickup for the Cateye is a reed switch. Most of them seem to be that I've seen.
I know nothing of ANT so have no idea what that may be.
The Ant communicates wirelessly with the Garmin as I understand. I presume one sensor is included in the ANT package and the other, speed presumably is on the extension and that is what you want to lengthen.

john

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:26 pm
by nitramluap
John Lewis wrote:Hi Paul,

I'm pretty certain that the pickup for the Cateye is a reed switch. Most of them seem to be that I've seen.
I know nothing of ANT so have no idea what that may be.
The Ant communicates wirelessly with the Garmin as I understand. I presume one sensor is included in the ANT package and the other, speed presumably is on the extension and that is what you want to lengthen.

john


As far as I understand the ANT+ part of it is simply the transmission protocol. I think it is a proprietary protocol but very similar to Bluetooth although it uses a lot less power. The sensors themselves, which are connected to the ANT+ transmitter unit (the speed sensor is part of it) are probably just standard Reed switches as you suggest. The cadence sensor is the one I need to lengthen.

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:07 pm
by Baalzamon
I might have to do the same for my trike, just need to find a placement by a wheel and the supension is going to make that fun hmm, super doopa long cable to my rear is sounding the method currently

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:46 pm
by John Lewis
I found this elsewhere on line.
John

You could use either sensor independently of the other, meaning you could use just the speed or just the cadence sensor. However you can also modify the speed and cadence sensor to fit and work on a recumbent bicycle. The cadence sensor (smaller one) is a simple magnetic reed switch connected to the main sensor body by two small gage wires. For recumbent bike applications, this two conductor wire that connects the two sensor heads can be lengthened as necessary. Any good UV resistant, flexible, multi-wire (at least two conductor) wire will do. Perhaps 24-28 gage.

Simply cut the wire between the speed & cadence sensor heads and splice in an appropriate wire segment. Connections must be soldered and must be insulated from each other. Electrical tape works, but looks bad. I used two sizes of heat shrink tube (small for the four individual wire solders and two larger to cover the two joints). Heat shrink tube and solder is available from Radio Shack, but I did not find a good selection of wire. For my application, I found suitable wire in a collection of retired cables.

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:52 pm
by Mulger bill
I'm neither a Velo pilot nor electrically gifted so you gentlemen may take this with a grain of salt if desired.

Back in the day before I went to a wireless 'puter I discovered a newly built wire fence the hard way on me MTB. Along with the flying off the bike issues and bowden cable damage, my 'puter cable got snagged and I lost about 35cms. Too much to unwind slack from around the brake cable...

Anyhoo, I limped home and after fixing the other problem, I found some "liberated" two core telephone cable and had a go with my soldering iron. A truly ugly result with my poor soldering skills and yellow Nitto tape insulation over beige covering but it proved serviceable until I went wireless a few months later after buying a roadie.

'Twas some sort of Cateye unit if it matters.

Shaun

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:30 pm
by smoran
Don't know if this helps (and probably too late since you already bought the Garmin sensor Paul) but you can get separate speed and separate cadence sensors. Botranger have them for instance (http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2011/07/ant- ... thing.html) and they still talk ANT+ protocol to connect to a Garmin head end.

Would using separate sensors make the mounting easier on the Mango?

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:45 pm
by nitramluap
smoran wrote:Don't know if this helps (and probably too late since you already bought the Garmin sensor Paul) but you can get separate speed and separate cadence sensors. Botranger have them for instance (http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2011/07/ant- ... thing.html) and they still talk ANT+ protocol to connect to a Garmin head end.

Would using separate sensors make the mounting easier on the Mango?


Yes, they probably would although the cadence sense may be a little too bulky.

I did see those sensors but I couldn't find where to buy them so I just bought the Wahoo combined sensor. It has the advantage of having a single battery and also being paired as a single device with an ANT+ compatible computer.

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:59 pm
by smoran
Fair enough - BTW why did you go with the Wahoo sensor instead of the Garmin one?

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:04 pm
by nitramluap
smoran wrote:Fair enough - BTW why did you go with the Wahoo sensor instead of the Garmin one?


The Wahoo sensor has a simple cable joining the two components. Cutting the cable doesn't compromise the water resistance of the main unit and it allows me to extend the length without too much hassle. I can't see that being easy to do with the Garmin unit. I need to separate the two sensors with about 3 metres of cable!

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:11 pm
by smoran
Ahh - that makes sense. Interesting that there new Bluetooth Speed/Cadence sensor is more like the Garmin style.

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:18 pm
by nitramluap
ANT+ Cadence & Speed sensor installed & working! :)

Firstly, I put the Mango on my homemade hoists (this is easily done with one person). It's particularly shiny as it has just been washed & waxed:
Image

The Wahoo Sensor started like this (well, I forgot to take a 'before dissection' image):
Image

I split the cable & extended it with some new wire:
Image

I made it all neat & tidy with some heatshrink:
Image
Image

I then fed the wire through the existing small eyelet in the wheel well. After that I could then solder the other end (the cadence sensor won't fit through that hole!):
Image

Before finalising the position I did a sensor check:
Image
Image

And I managed to position the magnet so it trips both sensors - perfect!
Image

I then rolled the Mango it it's side (on some towels of course):
Image

Then I positioned the two cadence sensors to run off the one magnet and wrapped up the small amount of excess cable):
Image
Image

Works perfectly.

PS: John, it is a Reed switch. I could hear it clicking when I put it near my ear and waved the magnet over it so I couldn't simply splice the cable from the existing sensors)

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:32 pm
by burnt
Nice work! (as usual)

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:38 pm
by smoran
Well done Paul - though I must admit as an ex hardware technician I dont like the burn marks from your soldering :-)

Re: Living with a velomobile

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:50 pm
by nitramluap
Thanks, Terry & Shaun.

smoran wrote:Well done Paul - though I must admit as an ex hardware technician I dont like the burn marks from your soldering :-)


It's just some flux. I wiped it clean before covering it with heatshrink ;)