Re: Living with a velomobile
Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:18 pm
So did you manage to get out for another ride ?
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BNA - For the Australian Cycling Community
http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/
There is no duty payable. You can claim a refund from Customs unless of course you wish to make a donation to their Christmas fund.mozart wrote:yes I did meant GST + 5% Customs duty
Um.... not sure about that - my understanding is that bicycles and other cycles are dealt with in the Australian Tariff at 8712.00.00 - with a 5% rate of Duty applicable. A velomobile would appear to be correctly assessed under this classification. Bicycles are subject to the duty, but are also subject to Tariff Concession Order TC 0104891, which reduces the Duty to 0%. A velomobile is not a bicycle, there is no Tariff Concession for velomobiles (that I can find), therefore 5% duty is payable. Can't see any other way round it, but happy to be corrected : )Aushiker wrote:There is no duty payable. You can claim a refund from Customs unless of course you wish to make a donation to their Christmas fund.mozart wrote:yes I did meant GST + 5% Customs duty
Andrew
If a Velomobile is not a bicycle then I would suggest that there are bigger issues to worry about than the 5% duty.chuckchunder wrote:Um.... not sure about that - my understanding is that bicycles and other cycles are dealt with in the Australian Tariff at 8712.00.00 - with a 5% rate of Duty applicable. A velomobile would appear to be correctly assessed under this classification. Bicycles are subject to the duty, but are also subject to Tariff Concession Order TC 0104891, which reduces the Duty to 0%. A velomobile is not a bicycle, there is no Tariff Concession for velomobiles (that I can find), therefore 5% duty is payable. Can't see any other way round it, but happy to be corrected : )Aushiker wrote:There is no duty payable. You can claim a refund from Customs unless of course you wish to make a donation to their Christmas fund.mozart wrote:yes I did meant GST + 5% Customs duty
Andrew
bicycle means a vehicle with 2 or more wheels that is built to be propelled by human power through a belt, chain or gears (whether or not it has an auxiliary motor) and —
(a) includes a pedicab, penny-farthing and tricycle; but
(b) does not include a wheelchair, wheeled recreational device, wheeled toy or any vehicle with an auxiliary motor capable of generating a power output over 200 watts (whether or not the motor is operating);
A vehicle designed to be propelled through a mechanism solely by human power.
hhmmm....... the Road Traffic Code definition is to allow ease of regulating particular types of vehicles and defining them together makes sense (well to me anyway). That way when you use the word "bicycle" in the Code, it means tricycles etc as well. Narcotics in the Customs Regs for example includes cannabinoids, which are clearly not narcotics, but if you see the word "narcotics" in the Regs cannabinoids are generally included. You'll note in the heading at 8712.00.00 that the Tariff refers to Bicycles and other cycles including.....tricycles. The tariff is about classifying things for assessment of tax, but unlike the two example above it is not necessary to lump things together for ease of regulation in this context - its not saying everything in this classification is a bicycle (like the Road Traffic Code), its saying bicycles and similar/like things are included in this classification and taxed at this rate. Concessions are then made for specific goods (scroll down the doc I linked to, to the Tariff Concession Order's(TCO) for that classification ie 8712.00.00 - four front wheels???). My simplistic understanding is that Tariffs are used to protect local industry, and that TCO's are usually applied for by commercial importers for goods for which there is no local industry to protect (whether there is a local bicycle manufacturing industry to protect may be worth another thread!!). My guess is no-one has ever commercially imported velo's, hence no TCO.Aushiker wrote:
Struggling to see given this definition how a velomobile is not a bicycle but interested in your take on it.
Regards
Andrew
Well I will be applying for a concession as per the very documents you referred to and as per the Department of Transport vehicle importation requirements (which Customs refer to BTW) and the ADR. If others which to simply pay the 5% that is there choice of coursechuckchunder wrote:hhmmm....... the Road Traffic Code definition is to allow ease of regulating particular types of vehicles and defining them together makes sense (well to me anyway). That way when you use the word "bicycle" in the Code, it means tricycles etc as well. Narcotics in the Customs Regs for example includes cannabinoids, which are clearly not narcotics, but if you see the word "narcotics" in the Regs cannabinoids are generally included. You'll note in the heading at 8712.00.00 that the Tariff refers to Bicycles and other cycles including.....tricycles. The tariff is about classifying things for assessment of tax, but unlike the two example above it is not necessary to lump things together for ease of regulation in this context - its not saying everything in this classification is a bicycle (like the Road Traffic Code), its saying bicycles and similar/like things are included in this classification and taxed at this rate. Concessions are then made for specific goods (scroll down the doc I linked to, to the Tariff Concession Order's(TCO) for that classification ie 8712.00.00 - four front wheels???). My simplistic understanding is that Tariffs are used to protect local industry, and that TCO's are usually applied for by commercial importers for goods for which there is no local industry to protect (whether there is a local bicycle manufacturing industry to protect may be worth another thread!!). My guess is no-one has ever commercially imported velo's, hence no TCO.Aushiker wrote:
Struggling to see given this definition how a velomobile is not a bicycle but interested in your take on it.
Regards
Andrew
Hope that makes some sense?
Thinking about this a bit more, but if a velomobile is not a bicycle or cycle as you suggest then the 5% duty you refer to cannot also be applied as it applies to bicycles and cycles (Customs cannot arbitrarily assign tariffs, well legally at least) just as the concession cannot be applied for the same reason as you argued.chuckchunder wrote:Um.... not sure about that - my understanding is that bicycles and other cycles are dealt with in the Australian Tariff at 8712.00.00 - with a 5% rate of Duty applicable. A velomobile would appear to be correctly assessed under this classification. Bicycles are subject to the duty, but are also subject to Tariff Concession Order TC 0104891, which reduces the Duty to 0%. A velomobile is not a bicycle, there is no Tariff Concession for velomobiles (that I can find), therefore 5% duty is payable. Can't see any other way round it, but happy to be corrected : )Aushiker wrote:There is no duty payable. You can claim a refund from Customs unless of course you wish to make a donation to their Christmas fund.mozart wrote:yes I did meant GST + 5% Customs duty
Andrew
I saw this too, and noticed it was "four front wheels with a diameter not exceeding 160mm". http://www.streetsurfer.com.au/Tariff Concession Order's(TCO) for that classification ie 8712.00.00 - four front wheels???)
I paid GST just not any duty.Bartek wrote:hopefully I wont pay any GST!
John my Mango should arrive mid January, so how much notice do I need to give Khuene & Nagel is it just a case of letting them know when the crate is shipped or do they need prior notice or do I just ask them to handle it when it arrives?
Did you inform them prior to its arrival or did Sinner arrange that?John Lewis wrote:
First I knew velo had arrived was when K & N phoned me.
Good luck with that. What's your argument going to be? "no GST on basic food, ie mangoes ?"Bartek wrote:hopefully I wont pay any GST!
Personal mobile global climate change de-intensifying, physical health improving module, with psychological stress reduction capacity?Rhubarb wrote: Good luck with that. What's your argument going to be? "no GST on basic food, ie mangoes ?"
That was all arranged from Sinner's end. I think K & N were the shipping agent they used.Bartek wrote:Did you inform them prior to its arrival or did Sinner arrange that?John Lewis wrote:
First I knew velo had arrived was when K & N phoned me.
John Lewis wrote:
First I knew velo had arrived was when K & N phoned me. They then emailed docs which I printed, signed and scanned then emailed back. That sped things up. Docs were authority for them to act o my behalf.
I did mention that bike complete stuff to them but I think they were on top of that.
They emailed an invoice and I sent it via bank draft. Could have used credit card or whatever.
K & N were extremely helpful and I commend them for their good work.
John
Hi Jim,mozart wrote:John Lewis wrote:
First I knew velo had arrived was when K & N phoned me. They then emailed docs which I printed, signed and scanned then emailed back. That sped things up. Docs were authority for them to act o my behalf.
I did mention that bike complete stuff to them but I think they were on top of that.
They emailed an invoice and I sent it via bank draft. Could have used credit card or whatever.
K & N were extremely helpful and I commend them for their good work.
John
Sorry I could't get back to on computer that been away , family friend passed away over weekend.
I'm totally confused now . this is actually what happened to me is like John had did. Had telephone call from K & N then they sent me email with the documents that which I printed off & scan and sign & sent email back, I did mention it was bike. I pick up mail today, paperwork from K & N , it say velomobile on paperwork that maybe why that I have to pay the 5% ? .
Anyway back to to the the mango finally got out for a ride this morning ,15 km It took a little while to get used to this steering I did't have time set up video camera I made sort clip of ride, http://youtu.be/pssu8EXthYg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; next time it be longer
Hhmmmm - You're the 6th or 7th to import a mango into Aus now but the 1st to pay import duty. I think you've been fleeced.mozart wrote:I just been talking to K & N , the reason that I have to pay duty because it is not a two wheels bicycle, velomobile goes under a three wheels tricycle there duty on velomobile
Thanks John for information and for you help.
James
Interesting response. Do you by chance have the HS Commodity Code (required for determining the duty and for importation) or the duty code that they are using to determine what duty applies to a tricycle. They should supply this to justify the duty payable notice anyway.mozart wrote:I just been talking to K & N , the reason that I have to pay duty because it is not a two wheels bicycle, velomobile goes under a three wheels tricycle there duty on velomobile