Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

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Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby trikelyst » Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:37 pm

Hi,

Has anyone any experience with the Terracycle idlers ( http://www.t-cycle.com ) on recumbent trikes? The idler on my Challenge trike is in poor shape and (presumably) saps power from the drive train. It also allows the chain to scrape against the frame.

--
Mark
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by BNA » Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:28 pm

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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby rdp_au » Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:28 pm

I fitted one to my recumbent bike. Well made and easy to fit. It is bit noisy, but I think that's the price you pay for its efficiency.

Rds,

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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby trikelyst » Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:50 pm

Thanks. I've emailed the vendor to get a better understanding of which idler would be suitable for my trike. Did you order online or is there and Aus supplier that you used?
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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:54 pm

I use Terracycle idlers and I think there well worth the investment but the key to any idler is looking at the chain line and using spacers to shift the idler to be in the best position so not have the chain rubbing the outer edges of your idlers as best you can. In some cases to use spacers you need to purchase another bolt that holds the idlers to the frame because the stock bolt will not allow for spacers and fine tuning of the chain line. Also if you do fine tune you idlers position you will notice better shifting and even smoother than factory. The other thing that is well worth the effort in doing if you have chain tubes is cut them down to only needing as much as required and flare the entry/exit holes so the chain doesn't catch. Also with chain tubes I went to the trouble of making custom brackets that hold the chain tubes in set positions which can float so that the tubes always remain in the chains natural line this helps reduce most of the noise.

Ricky
Last edited by }SkOrPn--7 on Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:03 pm

trikelyst wrote:Thanks. I've emailed the vendor to get a better understanding of which idler would be suitable for my trike. Did you order online or is there and Aus supplier that you used?


Order online it will be cheaper and faster ordering here in Oz you will be stung.

I believe that you need Over/Under Idler for your trike but what you need to find out is the bolt diameter that your current idlers are using so when placing an order you order either 8mm Ceramic Hybrid bearings, 10mm ABEC bearings or 3/8" ABEC bearings. I personally think the elite idlers are worth the money but that is your choice.

http://www.t-cycle.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=T&Product_Code=OUidler&Category_Code=IdlersALL

http://www.t-cycle.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=T&Product_Code=idlersportoverunder&Category_Code=IdlersALL
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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby trikelyst » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:33 pm

}SkOrPn--7 wrote:I use Terracycle idlers and I think there well worth the investment but the key to any idler is looking at the chain line and using spacers to shift the idler to be in the best position so not have the chain rubbing the outer edges of your idlers as best you can. In some cases to use spacers you need to purchase another bolt that holds the idlers to the frame because the stock bolt will not allow for spacers and fine tuning of the chain line. Also if you do fine tune you idlers position you will notice better shifting and even smoother than factory.
Ricky


Thanks for the advice. I'm hoping the shifting will improve - at the moment I can't use the largest ring on the FD (it won't shift there) but that's in part down to the limitations of the Microshift FD or how I've installed it. I'm not mechanically minded (tho' I did assemble the trike myself over the period of a couple of months) and I haven't yet found a competent/helpful/trustworthy cycle shop in Perth to improve matters for me.

--
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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:27 pm

Mark not able to find a LBS to solve your FD is not good because it's not rocket science most bike shops should not be scared because it's a recumbent bike as the drive train is no different than a normal bike in setting up in most cases. Shame I don't live in WA or close to you I would have that sucker working in no time for you. You might want to place a plea for someone close on this forum to you who is willing to drop by or you take the trike to them for a little help. There is plenty of folks willing to help a fellow cyclist so just ask there is bound to be someone near you.
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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:11 pm

Mark does your trike have two idlers or one? From my research it looks like there using a 8mm x 80mm stainless steel bolt so your bearings are more than likely 8mm diameter.

Ricky
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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby trikelyst » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:25 pm

One. It just has the power side idler. And I measured it at 8mm bolt diameter. Speaking to someone else on a US recumbent forum - he went with both power and return idlers.

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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby bradwoodbr » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:18 pm

Mark,
For assistance setting up your trike, contact the WAHPV group where there are lots of very experienced trike owners and riders.

The website is: http://www.wahpv.org/

They also have a yahoo group titled wahpv at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WAHPV/
Become a member and you will gets lots of support.
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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby Baalzamon » Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:20 pm

Hey do you want to do a group buy? I'm going to get one for my Baccetta Giro 26 as well
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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:13 am

trikelyst wrote:One. It just has the power side idler. And I measured it at 8mm bolt diameter. Speaking to someone else on a US recumbent forum - he went with both power and return idlers.

--
Mark


Smart move from what I could see I thought you only had one idler and if you upgrade to both power/return your going to see a big difference in smoothness Mark so well worth the extra cost.

Ricky
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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby trikelyst » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:40 am

Baalzamon wrote:Hey do you want to do a group buy? I'm going to get one for my Baccetta Giro 26 as well

Yeah that could work OK - I'm still awaiting feedback from an email I sent Terracycle to confirm which model idler I'll need

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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby trikelyst » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:42 am

}SkOrPn--7 wrote:Smart move from what I could see I thought you only had one idler and if you upgrade to both power/return your going to see a big difference in smoothness Mark so well worth the extra cost.
Ricky

I hope so - it's a pretty choppy drivetrain at the moment...
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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby chuckchunder » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:06 pm

i went to terracycles on the Greenspeed GTS. Can't do under over due to chainline, so it's under under.

Well made and worth the money IMHO. I felt a nice reduction in drag having removed the return tube.

cheers

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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby chuckchunder » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:40 pm

just had a thought regarding your problem with the front derailleur - on some FD's the cable routing at the the pinch bolt is not obvious ie the bolt that clamps the cable at the derailleur. if you clamp the cable on the wrong side of the bolt it will not pull the derailleur to it's full reach. can i suggest you check your FD manual (if you've got one) and confirm the cable is clamped on the correct side of the bolt......

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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby Bartek » Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:40 am

Hi all Don't want to hijack the thread but, I have just fitted some Terracycle idlers to my KMX viper. I got them
from Utah Trikes and they are supposedly for the KMX.

Since fitting them the chain now rubs on the frame, I have measured the
idler and it appears to be 2mm bigger in diameter than the previous one.

I have contacted Utah and they just recommended fitting some Lizard skin,
but to me that just seems to be band-aid fix that eventually wont be a fix at
all. Surely the chain will chew through the lizard skin fairly quickly. Any
thoughts, suggestions?

trykelist - make sure you get the correct size!
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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:41 pm

Bartek wrote:Hi all Don't want to hijack the thread but, I have just fitted some Terracycle idlers to my KMX viper. I got them
from Utah Trikes and they are supposedly for the KMX.

Since fitting them the chain now rubs on the frame, I have measured the
idler and it appears to be 2mm bigger in diameter than the previous one.

I have contacted Utah and they just recommended fitting some Lizard skin,
but to me that just seems to be band-aid fix that eventually wont be a fix at
all. Surely the chain will chew through the lizard skin fairly quickly. Any
thoughts, suggestions?

trykelist - make sure you get the correct size!


Hi Bartek can I make a correction it isn't the idlers that are at fault its a design flaw in the KMX Viper. I have raised this same issue with KMX UK headquarters telling them the fix that is needed along with many other issues I found and passed onto them. Also Utah Trikes supplied the standard idlers that Terracycle would supply or anyone buying that type of idler what Utah Trikes did was supply the spacers that came with the idlers made specially for the KMX in order to make them fit the idler mounts. Both issues are not the fault of the idlers or Utah Trikes but the Viper itself so I hope that that this explains or clears up and corrects your understanding of the issue.

The below is taken from a review I wrote which address this very issue. Since this review I have made changes again so if you want up to date images to solve this issue even better just holla

Ok this next set of images is what really gets on my goat as this should have been resolved from factory and so simple to implement at the early stages of build or design to rectify what I can only say as glaring issues. Ok I say simple to resolve and for me yes they are but for KMX this may have been a larger cost involved to over come these problems hence why they appear to still remain as design faults so maybe the 2010 models do have these issues addressed as mine is a 2009 model. Now I can't speak for the trikes below the Viper model as they are 8 speed so this issue may well be just limited to the 9 speed Viper but it's a right pain in the butt to accept.

The Viper or all of the KMX range have chunky stays so again makes them bomb proof and if you look at the seat stay in the below image up the top middle you will see a bolt that holds the seat stay in place and on the right side it's a longer flat end. On the other side that the bolts threads into I have had to remove some of the stay hence it looks shorter so the chain can flow to the smallest cog without getting caught. Not a big deal but this should not happen from factory so to solve this all that is required is the drop-outs where the seat stays mount too need raising by 7mm for a total clear non obstructed run when changing to the 9th gear.

Image

It doesn't stop there as you look at the next two images when using the smallest cog the chain rubs a good 150mm along the chain stay removing all paint if you don't address this issue. Not a big deal as there is many ways to apply protection to the stay and paint but I find this not acceptable the stay should have a 45 degree clearance along that one side of the chain stay which should be solved from factory. Even I could solve this by cutting and welding in a new 45 degree plate to have chain clearance on that one side. The factory cassette is a 34-11 but I changed out the 11 to a 12 which raised the chain up off the chain stay giving the clearance needed. Now doing that isn't for everyone as you will loose top end speed but in my case using an IGH hub this isn't here nor there.

Image

Image

I just applied a clear chain protector the full length on the stay which solves this issue on the smallest cog so easy to solve for the most folk but those that are looking at the Viper be aware of this issue and take preventative action before riding. You could also pack out the rear power idler to change the chain line a little taking the chain away from the stay which would have no adverse effect on running so there is another option. Just looking at the rear wheel I reckon you could place a small 2mm thick spacer over the axle so the QR doesn't pull the stay so close to the wheel leaving a little more clearance but the stay protection is doing fine for me at this stage.

Bartek there is another major issue that you need to address and when the darn photobucket is working again I will send to you the fix for that as well and it has to do with the rear idle bracket.

Ricky
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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby Bartek » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:39 pm

Ricky

I have checked, I don't have that problem, mine rubs on the frame where the chain passes through the frame (which it didn't before) I noticed on the newer models the chain no longer passes through the frame. I am thinking of trying to refit a small section of the chain tubes where it rubs. Thanks anyway.
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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:28 pm

Bartek wrote:Ricky

I have checked, I don't have that problem, mine rubs on the frame where the chain passes through the frame (which it didn't before) I noticed on the newer models the chain no longer passes through the frame. I am thinking of trying to refit a small section of the chain tubes where it rubs. Thanks anyway.


You mean it rubs in this location if that is the case this was my solution two flared 6" chain tubes the flare if big enough on the end closest to the idlers will hold the tubes in plce once you force them through the frame opening.

Image

Image

I also made a new tube hanger that directed the chain in a far better chain line to reduce chain noise.

Image
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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby Bartek » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:57 am

Ricky

thats the area, and it is only the return (not the drive) side. I will have to try to rig something like that I think,Thanks.
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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:35 pm

Ok Bartek glad we got the right area sorted and help in a small way.

Ricky
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Re: Terracycle idler on recumbent trike

Postby trikelyst » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:55 pm

chuckchunder wrote:i went to terracycles on the Greenspeed GTS. Can't do under over due to chainline, so it's under under.

Well made and worth the money IMHO. I felt a nice reduction in drag having removed the return tube.

cheers

glen


My over/under idler arrived this week. Fitted it & removed both chain tubes. Looks quite a bit neater, a little noisy but less draggy. 1st ride average speed was a couple of km quicker (not statistically valid of course).

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