Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Recumbents and all feet forward machines

Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:18 pm

Some time back in a thread cranks or Q -Rings where a subject and Rotor was brought up and at the time I had a set on order. I wanted to use my Shimano XT cranks for another project and was wondering at the time what would be the upgrade. Rotor was always at the top of that list mainly because I wanted a change from Shimano and it was time for a change. I guess it was more of curiosity and looks that swung me to Rotor cranks and just to be able to place something else in the stable to evaluate. Rotor sure have a nice finish on there cranks plus a very good O-ring sealing system along with the ability to add or subtract spacers making fitting a variety of BB's and bottom bracket widths.

One thing I really liked was there very simple clamping system which was far superior than the Shimano's XT in that it has a single bolt that has to be unscrewed a little to spread the crank arm and slide over the spindle. Turn the bolt back in to it's neutral position and the non drive side crank arms is nice and tight fit even before you torque the bolt. Pre-loading the non drive cranks along with the "Q" factor is nothing different over the XT nor is the spindle fit on the bearings just a better sealing system from road grim and water.

Between the Shimano XT cranks and the 3D cranks there is very little in the feel while peddling but I do like that the crank arms come from the spindle out at a angle to where the pedals rest at the "Q" factor which I like. It gives greater foot clearance from heel strike on the crank arm compared to the Shimano. The 3D cranks have less flex in the crank arm when you load them up and are lighter over all but that isn't a factor in my books due to not being a weight weenie.

Over all better seals, more foot clearance, far superior bolt system, less flex and lighter but when on the stead riding wise nothing in it as far as the cranks alone is concerned. So for bang for buck Shimano XT wins hands down by a country mile and then some.

I will get some images up later.

Ricky
}SkOrPn--7
 
Posts: 1998
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:15 pm

by BNA » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:13 pm

BNA
 

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:13 pm

Here are the images and the weight is 600grms each but the Rotor cranks had the chainrings attached so not a great deal in it but they are lighter. As you can see by the below image the "Q" factor remains the same but as you can see the Rotor cranks taper from the pedal to the spindle allowing for more clearance off heal strike compared to the straighter design back to the spindle by Shimano as I mentioned above.

Image

In my opinion nice looking crank arms.

Image

Spacer that comes in different sizes to suit the different BB's and shell but in the image below you can see the recess that the O-ring sits in as the spindle passes through on both sides of the spacer to seal any water entering the BB. Such a simple little addition and I have hit them with a high pressure industrial washer (Not just a wash over but a real blast at all angles to try and push water past the seals) and no water gets in so on that front I have tested and they do what there supposed to do.

Image

This image will give you a better idea of placement of spacer and O-ring on the spindle and when the BB is pressed up against the spacer you get that complete seal.

Image

The below image shows the simple but more effective single bolt that holds the cranks on the spindle. You can loosen that bolt right off to the neutral position and the cranks remain tight on the spindle it's when further torque is applied to the bolt in an anticlockwise direction that this then splays the crank to allow it to be taken off the spindle and that I really like it's a nice feature.

Image

Over all I'm impressed with the cranks and like the neat features they offer over the Shimano XT cranks but like I said bang for buck stick with Shimano.

Ricky
}SkOrPn--7
 
Posts: 1998
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:15 pm

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby John Lewis » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:26 pm

Neat.
I must have been thinking of a different Rotor crank. The one I recall had some gearing or something and gave a similar effect to Q rings.

John
John Lewis
 
Posts: 1186
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:12 pm
Location: Albany. 400km South of Perth

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby Phil » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:33 pm

Hi Ricky

Great Photos. I was eyeing these up from the webseller in the UK, but not a lot of photos - and no where near the level of detail you have presented.

Ended up getting a set of SRAM red 165mm 52/36 for $300 so went with these - yet to install on the Bacchetta, but I am looking at an M5 Carbon Medium Racer as well (still waiting on the quote - seems to be a common problem for recumbent people dealing with the Netherlands). I do like the look of the 3D cranks though, and seriously considering them for the future - if I like the 52/36 will get some Qrings for the Red cranks on the Bacchetta.

Cheers
Phil
Image
User avatar
Phil
 
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:07 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby Joeblake » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:36 pm

John Lewis wrote:Neat.
I must have been thinking of a different Rotor crank. The one I recall had some gearing or something and gave a similar effect to Q rings.

John


I think you probably mean these ones.
http://www.rotorbike.com/nueva/ingles/m ... t_rs4x.htm
http://www.rotorbike.com/nueva/pdf/RotorSystemCrank.pdf

It's a similar system to the old "Power Cam", which I have sitting in my shed.

Image
Image

Absolutely brilliant, pee'd all over the old elliptical chain rings (Shimano?). Back in the mid '80s I had two identical Roulandt recumbents set up with the Power Cam and the elliptical rings, and rode both for over a year, just to make sure I got a good feel. Loved the PC. Only difficulty I had was trying to bridge the gap between the two chain rings, 42 and 60!! I had to change the front rings by hand.

Am still considering buying the Rotor system, but I'd like to use it on a non-electric trike, so I may get a Greenspeed and have them set it up for me.

Joe
To acquire immunity to eloquence is of the utmost importance to the citizens of a democracy
Bertrand Russell
Many people feel their lifestyle has a high price, but they're quite cool with that .. as long as somebody ELSE pays the price.
Joeblake
 
Posts: 12820
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:04 pm
Location: Lesmurdie WA

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:00 pm

Hi John come to think of it I think it was your mango Velo thread where all this started and we veered off the subject a little and somewhere someone brought up Rotor to which I flapped my gums and made mention a set was on order. If what Joe has offered up then I too must have miss understood the Rotor cranks you were talking about and sorry about that.

Phil thanks mate if you need images of anything detailed more so than what I offered up then just holla and I will do all I can to help you should you go down the Rotor path at a later date and need more images to help with the decision making process. I ordered these Cranks at 165mm but due to an email I got saying that Rotor have yet to do another run of the shorter cranks which meant a big delay in my order so I decided to change tactics again and go with the 175mm being the same crank length as my XT cranks. I wanted the shorter cranks for spinning but then when the order was to be delayed I decided that I would much prefer to have the cranks for hi torque as hills when touring is an issue with heavy loads hence my decision to go back.

The 165mm crank length was always an experiment and I choose Rotor for this even if it meant money burnt but now I'm glad I never got them at 165mm. I will still do 165mm but do it on the cheap not place so much money into what might be a failure and not something I like.

Phil I don't think you have lost anything selecting the SRAM Red because I dare say there would be little in it as well bar weight being in SRAM's favour. Just be mindful that a complete set of cranks and Q-rings from OS will set you back about 700 clams US hence my bang for buck comment that Shimano XT wins hands down and then some. I already had the Q-Rings on the Shimano cranks so not such a big investment for me but even just the cranks still cost more than your SRAM Red cost you and I got them OS but here in OZ the cranks alone are near 700 plus coins. To be honest now that I have the Rotor cranks paying the money just for the looks is ok with me because they do look smart and if I was you I would get the Q-Rings and place on the SRAM Red to start with. I hardly notice I'm using Q-Rings but when I do pick up on it is hill climbing in the granny ring you do move through the dead spot quicker and lose less momentum in the stroke.

The M5 is a thing of beauty and would be something really great to have in the stable but at this stage John has me more captive in the Mango as I read his thread and all the others that have been there plus those who have ordered. Owning a M5 would be over indulging if I was to purchase a velo but I sure would look forward to your review if you do decide to bite the bullet and order an M5.

Ricky
}SkOrPn--7
 
Posts: 1998
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:15 pm

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby John Lewis » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:36 pm

Yes Joe, I think they were similar to what you have. Heres some info.
I think they eventually stopped making those (not posiive) and changed over to the Q rings which do much the same for less complexity and weight.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/tech/?id ... tor_cranks

I think the ones Ricky has are by the same company but of course they aren't the mechanical contraption ones.
First I heard of them was years ago when I saw them mentioned on Chuck Hazzards blog about his early model Mango. He later updated to a quest.

john
John Lewis
 
Posts: 1186
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:12 pm
Location: Albany. 400km South of Perth

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby Baalzamon » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:11 am

I'm finding that 'dead spot' more and more now. Hating stopping on hills with stop signs :evil: Definitely think a set of Q-rings are needed, but I'll wait until I sort out my rear wheel since that is either getting an Alfine 11 upgrade or a rohloff upgrade. And ofc that will affect the front
Masi Speciale CX 2008 - Brooks B17 special saddle, Garmin Edge 810
Image
Baalzamon
 
Posts: 4622
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:23 pm
Location: Yangebup

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby Joeblake » Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:24 pm

Given that "Wiggo" won yesterday's time trial using an elliptical chain ring set, I reckon that's going to cause a bit of interest. Perhaps if you're thinking of buying one yourself you might want to get in ahead of the rush. :mrgreen:

Image

Joe
To acquire immunity to eloquence is of the utmost importance to the citizens of a democracy
Bertrand Russell
Many people feel their lifestyle has a high price, but they're quite cool with that .. as long as somebody ELSE pays the price.
Joeblake
 
Posts: 12820
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:04 pm
Location: Lesmurdie WA

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby Phil » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:49 pm

Joeblake wrote:Given that "Wiggo" won yesterday's time trial using an elliptical chain ring set, I reckon that's going to cause a bit of interest. Perhaps if you're thinking of buying one yourself you might want to get in ahead of the rush. :mrgreen:

Image

Joe


Hmm any specs? a Rotor Q-ring or something custom? My wife was just telling me that SKY Radio chips in 30 million pound a year - and they are not the only sponsor, so I guess money ain't that much of a problem if there is gains to be had.

They also use Pinarello Dogmas - but don't know there will be a queue for people to fork out $15K on Dogmas ;-)
Image
User avatar
Phil
 
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:07 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby Joeblake » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:05 pm

Phil wrote:Hmm any specs? a Rotor Q-ring or something custom?



I think this might be Wiggo's Wonder Wheel.

http://www.trainsharpcyclecoaching.co.u ... rings.html

Image

About 240 pounds by the look of it.

Joe
To acquire immunity to eloquence is of the utmost importance to the citizens of a democracy
Bertrand Russell
Many people feel their lifestyle has a high price, but they're quite cool with that .. as long as somebody ELSE pays the price.
Joeblake
 
Posts: 12820
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:04 pm
Location: Lesmurdie WA

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:04 pm

Having used and still using Q-rings I reckon just by looking at the design of Wiggins his would pass the dead spot faster and because of the curve and box shape I reckon that you would build up to that higher gear then quickly pass the dead spot in the lower gear before building back up to the higher gear again as the chainring turns. I might be wrong but it's just my observation of the chainring shape that they might have one up on Q-ring.

Ricky
}SkOrPn--7
 
Posts: 1998
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:15 pm

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby Baalzamon » Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:20 pm

Hmm only 130, or 110, no MTB rings
Masi Speciale CX 2008 - Brooks B17 special saddle, Garmin Edge 810
Image
Baalzamon
 
Posts: 4622
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:23 pm
Location: Yangebup

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby powercamloverdave » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:04 pm

Hi there! I just joined after finding this website in my search for a replacement
Ex Powercam. Via a web search I found a mention of the Ex PC in this thread on
Rotors. If I'm correct, I read that John had a P/C crankset sitting in his shed,
and I'm wondering if it's still in his possession. I saw the 2 photos, and the only
difference between mine and this one is that mine uses the loose ball bearings and
this version looks to be sealed bearings. After many years off my pro racing bike,
I'm starting back up with moderate riding sessions on a very good protected cycling
circuit near where I live... about 20-30kms per session.

On my 7th day of riding after so many years off 'rest' (I trained, raced and toured
previous to that 'rest' some 15 years... 1000's of miles) I was surprised to have the
right side bearing cup crack off at the point where the threads end. So far I've not
been able to find a NOS (new old stock) or a used bearing cup. Needless to say, I
had to walk back a long way to parking lot and my van. I have an old Avocet triple
crankset but I want to stay with the powercam style of pedaling due to it's good
benefits to my legs and knees. With a fair tailwind on flat roads I would often
get up to 40+mph on my 68/12 gear combo, and that included time-trials. I
normally had the 60t chainring with a 44 or 46.

Is there any chance I might be able to work out a deal with John to see if that old
'contraption', as some have called it, can have a new owner? :o I'm on the opposite
side of the world, 12 hours away, I believe, and at 73 still have the stamina to get
back up to 'masters ++' optimum level of performance, whatever that is!.

Thanks so much. :)

powercamloverdave

--
powercamloverdave
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:25 pm

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby powercamloverdave » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:30 pm

My, my... my error. Sorry! I just realized that I mentioned 'John' as having
the EX Powercam when it was actually Joe... (both names were mixed in there
in that posting. So, Joe... Do you still have that EX P/C ? Sorry Dave :|

powercamloverdave

--
powercamloverdave
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:25 pm

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby Joeblake » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:50 pm

Hi Dave,

The photos of the Power Cam in my posting were not of my own set, I found them on the net. I still have the power cam in my shed, but I don't use it because I can't find any parts to replace worn bits. (I bought it second hand in about 1984!) I replaced the needle bearings in about 1986/7, but that was about as far as I could go.

I looked at these gadgets

http://www.rotorbike.com/nueva/pdf/RotorSystemCrank.pdf

http://www.rotorbike.com/nueva/ingles/m ... t_rs4x.htm

From what I can gather the set up works in a similar fashion to the Power Cam and I'd love to be able to buy one if I could find a dealer close by. ie in Australia.

Sorry I can't help you any more with your chase, but I have very mixed memories of the PC. It made riding so much easier, but I couldn't find a front gear change system to handle the 42/60 jump, and it only had two chain rings. I had to change by hand.

Good luck
To acquire immunity to eloquence is of the utmost importance to the citizens of a democracy
Bertrand Russell
Many people feel their lifestyle has a high price, but they're quite cool with that .. as long as somebody ELSE pays the price.
Joeblake
 
Posts: 12820
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:04 pm
Location: Lesmurdie WA

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby powercamloverdave » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:41 pm

Howdy, Joe! Thanks so much for your reply. I appreciate it. Hmmm, so the photos were not of your unit. Too bad you can't use yours. The benefits I received from so many years of riding with the P/C were and still are unmistakeable. Obviously, regular spinning on a bike has the same benefits. But, I've had an issue with my knees ever since I played basketball in high school... I was the center, and dunking led to a bad fall to the concrete floor on a bent knee. When I started riding bike as an adult -in my early 30s- the usual crankset always hurt my knees, especially the one worst injured. But when I moved to Powercam, the relief to my knees was noticeable quite soon. I got to where I could train for several hours, on flat, hilly terrain and steep mountains, and with 30 minutes of getting home I would not feel tired, nor in pain, and my cardio specs were so good that my pulse would be in upper 40s within those 20-30 minutes.

Anyway, I sure wanted to find out about that sealed BB I see in the one picture. I did not know that Houdaille produced units with sealed bearings, unless, of course, the one in photo is a custom reworking by the owner. I'm doing my best now to find an adequate BB set that will match my 68mm bottom shell and give me the needed length on right side for the cam mechanism to function properly. I was just inquiring about a Shimano sealed bearing square taper Eng. threading which is 122.5mm in overall length of the spindle. But, the seller informed me that the left and right external segments are symmetrical, meaning too long on left and too short on right. That same BB model has a version with a 127.5mm spindle, which looks to give me the length I need on right, but way too much on left.

Although, there is a possibility that the extra length on left side might work out ok. You see, in this 'resurrecting' of cycling exercise, I switched over to SPD and SPD/SL ? cleats to replace my old, and still very good and functioning, Suntour Superbe caged pedals along with my Detto Prieto shoes. I practiced how to loosen the 'locked state'... I don't want to fall at my age !! :-) Anyway, the deal is that I started those 20-30 km runs tightly fastened to my pedals, and started to have muscle pains and very close to cramps. I then strained ligaments in my left foot ankle area, and a lot of pain up my left leg. Hmmm... I wondered why.

Then I recalled that in my 30s a chiropractic doctor informed me that his careful check of my legs revealed that my left leg is .5" shorter. I then recalled that although I'm right handed, I always dunked the basketball with my left hand, going airborne from my right leg leap. No wonder I jumped better on my right leg, it's longer!! Ha, ha. At any rate, some serious pondering led me to conclude that, although cycling with my old style cycling shoes on caged pedals, where your foot is not 'locked on' to the pedal never produced these muscle and ligament pains, my recently renewed cycling is with that shorter leg locked onto a pedal whose arm is too long for my left leg. When I've adjusted seat height, I've always done it with my right foot heel on right pedal in order to get the correct seat height. Hmmm... How to solve this issue. I did two things in my search for a solution.

First, I put my old caged pedals back on my bike and got my Dettos out for my next run. I then decided to find left pedal cranks that are shorter than my Powercam's 172.5mm. My old Avocet pedal arms are 170, but, I also picked up a nice looking NOS Sugino 168 and a NOS Suntour 165 at ebay. With my old pedals, old shoes and the 165mm arm, my tests have shown that with that reduction in length I get NO tendon or muscle pains. But, I then replaced the spd pedals and went out with my new spd cleated shoes the next week. It was a repeat of previous run: no muscle or tendons pain. So, looks like that issue is on it's way to being corrected.

But, to get back to the longer BB spindle... the 127.5... The Suntour 165 left pedal arm does not come off the spindle in a straight, 90 degree angle. It actually has an artful curve back towards the frame and then it ends up parallel to frame. So, at this moment that left pedal is actually moving around closer to the frame than was my original Powercam left arm, which is a direct, straight 90 degree off of the spindle, like a carpenter's square.

So, -and correct me if you see some faulty logic here- I'm figuring tonight that even though the Shimano 127.7mm spindle comes out too far to the left, the curve of the pedal arm back towards the frame most likely will place the pedal right where it should be in the first place. Hmmm... looks like I might be solving several issues here with this one switch over to a sealed BB spindle.

Since a replacement right side bearing cup is being manufactured for me at a very good local machine shop, and the first area that will be machined is the threaded portion that screws left-wise into the bottom shell, I'll get the Shimano 127.4 BB here before the inside is cut out in order for the machining to cut the specific diameter for the sealed bearing. If it all works out, I guess I'll have the only... er, the 2nd sealed bearing BB on a working Powercam. 2nd because the one in the photo does have a sealed bearing.

Well... I didn't plan to go into so much detail, but then, this is 'the rest of the story'. Most interesting!

And, once again, thanks for your reply. BTW... I'm still interested in finding a whole, genuine, original Powercam right side bearing cup. :)

Cordially yours, in Puerto Rico,

powercamloverdave

--
powercamloverdave
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:25 pm

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby Joeblake » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:06 pm

For a small shed, there were a remarkable number of hiding spots, but I eventually turned up my ancient device.

Here are a couple of piccies.

Image

Image

The most obvious difference between mine and the one in my previous post is the use of an Allen head bolt to hold the right crank onto the shaft. I assume this means that mine IS indeed ancient.

I think there is a sealed bearing in place on the chain wheel side by the look of it. I can't recall the last time I had it apart, but it would probably be some time in the late '90s.


Joe
To acquire immunity to eloquence is of the utmost importance to the citizens of a democracy
Bertrand Russell
Many people feel their lifestyle has a high price, but they're quite cool with that .. as long as somebody ELSE pays the price.
Joeblake
 
Posts: 12820
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:04 pm
Location: Lesmurdie WA

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby Riggsbie » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:16 pm

I have Osymmetric rings on my Musashi and my ICE Vortex FS....

They are good and the dead spot is eliminated very effectively....I was able to go to bigger rings and they feel easier to pedal than the smaller old round rings !
Image
User avatar
Riggsbie
 
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:55 pm
Location: Geelong, Vic

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby powercamloverdave » Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:34 pm

Hi Joe, and others who've posted: Thanks for your added note and 2 photos of your old, retired Powercam. I'm posting various photos I just took of my current crankset which is now off bike as I await the repair or replacement via remanufacture of the heart of the system, namely, the right-side bearing cup, which cracked in two a week ago.

If the photos show in order, as numbered, one is the backside of the main gear crank, and another is a close-up of the mechanism, less the cam, which is in a box. A third photo is the back-up crank gear I recently bought just to be sure to have a replacement when/if needed, It was being sold w/o the cam and bearing cup. The 4th photo is the same new crank/chainring with my old TA 68t chainring laying on top. I'd only use it when training for a road race and time-trials. That's why it shows less wear. When paired with a 12t or 13t, with speed built up to cruising speed, it was not hard to hold strong on pretty long sprints from 35-40mph! If I ever put it back on it would only be just for the enjoyment of the moment and fond memories... no way at 73 I can be back at leg strength to push that gear. But, it's not really that hard because the cam mechanism literally increases the power output because of the mechanical leverage obtained.

BTW, I've seen various comments of the Ex P/C on the web questioning the existence of serious physiological tests during the creation of this genius mechanism. And that is just not true. I know for a fact -because I was offered to Rep. the crankset here in PR- that much testing, as available in the early 80's, was an integral part of this creation. The evidence showed clear proof of the many benefits, including physical protection of leg muscles, more recovery time between down-strokes, power output increase due to the gearing leverage due to the cam mechanism, which necessitated bigger chain-rings paired with small rear gears. I don't recall all the details. Hopefully I have all that printed material somewhere in my huge collection of books and magazines.

For some good reason the coach of the USA road team for the Olympics held in the 80's had the team training with ExP/Cams. And from the info I was privy to, they were turning in times that in my opinion would have won them the gold. But, a few weeks before those Olympics the famous coach made the decision to pull the Powercams and go back to standard normal cycling cranksets. The reason I read?: He felt they needed more time to practice the new pedaling action. Obviously, such a decision hurt the image of the product, finally leading to the end of manufacturing. I remember reading in cycling mags, which I still possess, of a few high-end cyclists winning major races in Europe on their Powercams. I don't recall the Tour de France being in that list, but I wouldn't doubt that some cyclists in the Tour did use it. IOW, it was and still is a good, brilliant bike mechanism. Too bad it fell due to circumstances that were not related to it's quality and, above all, capacity to produce the benefits promised.

Before closing, allow me to ask you, Joe. In your photo, I do not see the right side bearing cup, which is the mechanism that FIXES the cam in it's determined position so that it will not rotate under the pressure from the rotating bearing. I see the two outer lobes of the cam showing, but where the fixing holes (for steel pins hammered into small holes drilled through into the bottom shell) are located there is nothing to be seen. If you compare to the first photos you posted, the right bearing cup is clearly visible, with what looks to be a sealed bearing inserted into it, That cup has the flange with the notches in it (for use of the spanner wrench). The screw hole which is visible at bottom shows the tip of the screw (which holds the cam to the cup). The small hole next to it is one of two (one at top and one at bottom) holes through which one drills into the shell and inserts the locking pins. Looks like that unit was not installed, otherwise the right side bearing cup would be firmly locked onto the bottom shell.

That cam CANNOT move, otherwise the entire pedaling system is non-existent. Actually if cam rotated you'd not even be able to pedal because the dead spot would be occurring at any point in the circular rotation... impossible for your brain/legs/bike to function in unison.

Which is why I'm asking you about the absence of the right side bearing cup in that photo. Those 2 holes (see above) in the cam don't show in your P/C. They would be up against whatever that black cylinder is, which would mean that the screws go into the edge of that cylinder, and the locking pins as well.

When you were using the Powercam, how did you set up and FIX the cam against any rotation in order for the cam action of the gear system to be the up-down action which is characteristic of this brilliant invention? I look forward to your reply. BTW, there is a web link to a page that has pdfs of the instruction sheet for installation... exact copies of the original instructions I have here next to me.

Well, let me now find out how to post the jpegs. I hope they are informative. Again, thanks for your input and photos.

Cordially,

Powercamloverdave :D

p/s During preview process, I insert the 4 lines of code for the img, but I've not found how to copy the files from my pc to here. So, posting will have not photos. Once I hear back from anyone who reads this first on 'how to' get those images into the posting, I do a followup with the 4 photos I just took. Thanks.
powercamloverdave
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:25 pm

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby Joeblake » Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:21 pm

Hi Dave,

To post photos, what I do is save them to an on-line facility (Photobucket etc) then just copy the address as an Img in the Post a reply of the BB. (If you copy the address below but remove the spaces in the img and /img labels you should see the image.

[i mg]http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/saxeharp/Powercam/pcam01_zps61ef0388.jpg[/i mg]

Perhaps I should clarify why you might see some differences. I had two Roulandt 'bents back in the early '80s, and they were the first 'bents that had an adjustable bottom end bracket, which was bolted into a track underneath the frame.

Image

I can't find a clearer photo but if you look at my first piccy of my PC you can see the shell which holds the axle and bearing hanging underneath. The other side of the shell can be seen just peeking over the top of the crank where it sits on the axle.

Image

As for comparing the Powercam to the Biopace "elliptical" chain rings, I rode the two Roulandts (one with the Biopace and the other with the Powercam) on a daily basis, for more than a year. including several overnight trips. Except for the aforementioned difficulty with changing from one chain ring to the other, the Powercam was far superior to the Biopace, and now you've got me thinking about it again, I might stir myself into action to either try and refurbish it or purchase the Rotor set up. (However, it may be a moot point, since I now ride Greenspeed 'bent trikes with motors and photovoltaic panels.)

Image

Joe.
To acquire immunity to eloquence is of the utmost importance to the citizens of a democracy
Bertrand Russell
Many people feel their lifestyle has a high price, but they're quite cool with that .. as long as somebody ELSE pays the price.
Joeblake
 
Posts: 12820
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:04 pm
Location: Lesmurdie WA

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby powercamloverdave » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:38 pm

Hi Joe... Thanks for the interesting photos. Looks like you really did a custom mounting job on the Ex Powercam. Since it
worked, that means it was well installed. The dead spots are certainly in a different position with regard to vertical, seeing
that you are basically laying down. Neat!

I opened an acc't at photobucket, so let me try now to post those 4 photos, hopefully in the right order. At any rate, you'll be
able to differentiate between the older original one and the NOS partial system I bought recently to have as a back-up. Sure
wish I could get a NOS right-side bearing cup... the remanufacturing from a block of steel isn't cheap!

Here goes... and, once again, many thanks.

Cordially,
powercamloverdave 8)

p/s I viewed posting and photos did not show, so I pulled posting to edit and make sure I have the code right, and I do.
There must be a built-in time-lag before they show. I tested in new page with img codes removed and I saw the photos
at p/b. pcld :?
Image
Image
Image
Image
Last edited by powercamloverdave on Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:31 am, edited 4 times in total.
powercamloverdave
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:25 pm

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby Baalzamon » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:46 pm

Image
Image
Image
Image

Fixed for you.
2 things, photobucket only copy the IMG code that is on the right for sharing photos's, and you only have 6 posts and need 10 to put up photos.
Masi Speciale CX 2008 - Brooks B17 special saddle, Garmin Edge 810
Image
Baalzamon
 
Posts: 4622
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:23 pm
Location: Yangebup

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby powercamloverdave » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:59 pm

Oh... ok... many thanks! :) I appreciate that very much. I did read the rules when I joined, but
I simply missed the rule on posting photos... so sorry! ... guess I read too fast. Again... Thank you!
Cordially,
powercamloverdave 8)
powercamloverdave
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:25 pm

Re: Rotor MTB 104/64 BCD 3X9 3D Cranks

Postby powercamloverdave » Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:36 pm

Hi, Mr Moderator... I goofed! Sorry. I added titles to the 4 graphics and re-uploaded to P/B, believing
that with same file name the usual process of replacement of same-name files would occur. But it did not.
So, I removed the original 4 and left the modified ones. In looking at the current file # assigned, it looks
to be the same as is in my post, but it's obvious that it's not. If you don't mind, could you please edit
whatever needs to be changed so the replacement photos will show. Thanks so much. Sorry for my goof
there. :( .... but, thanks for your anticipated help... :)

powercamloverdave
powercamloverdave
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:25 pm

Next

Return to Recumbents

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers
> BNA Cycling Kit