Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Recumbents and all feet forward machines

Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:47 am

DentedHead wrote:
you have a real talent for the welder

This made me laugh :) There's a reason I don't take close-ups of my welds. While getting better, they are still not going to win any beauty pageants. I did find the tips in the tutorial section at AtomicZombie a help though.



Dent.


So long as they hold and the penetration is good you will be ok and if the first effort is holding up then you would have got your feet wet and making a better run this time round so congrats learning from past boo-boo's

Gotcha Dent that is very deceiving those images 800mm is very good they just look wider and the reason why I asked was bollards or the likes for trikes is a big issue. Allot of lane ways with the zig zag bollards is near impossible to get through or around but if your 800mm you should be ok.

Ricky
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by BNA » Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:52 pm

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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby John Lewis » Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:52 pm

Re Disk brakes.
Somewhere over on AZ is some info on how to fit disks to an ordinary wheel. It involved a fitting made from rubber and steel bolted to the spokes if I recall. One of the electric bikes used an almost identical setup to mount a sprocket on the left.
You seem to have welded the axle to the fork. I welded a threaded tube on (Doesn't need to be threaded.) The axle bolt goes through and locked with a nut. Remove the axle bolt and you can drop the wheel out.

With the single sided wheel mounts you almost never need to remove the wheel anyway.

Just measured my Logo Trike width at 750 mm. I believe the max width here in WA for a loaded bike trailer and by extension a recumbent trike is 660 mm max on road width. I read it in the regs somewhere. I know a friend got pulled over here and told his commercially made trike was overwidth.

John
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:09 pm

Hmmm. I think I'll look into those discs then. I'll probably still use rim brakes on the cub, as I have near everything I need already, but "the more you know..."

The axle itself slides into a tube similar to how you describe. The tube is welded to the fork, and the axle is held there by the quick release mechanism. In truth, the only reason I should need to remove the wheels is ease of transport, but I'm considering a bike trailer anyway. Even with removable wheels and steering linkage (as the Grizzly has for traveling) I doubt I could fit both in the back of the wagon.

As for the width, my research into what I can ride on road indicated only SA had a limit (700mm), but I'm not real good at finding legislation. Pretty sure Vic has no specific limit though, beyond practicality. I sure hope not, as the Grizzly will certainly exceed it ;)


Dent.
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby barefoot » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:48 am

Hi DH,

Love your work.

I know another novice Ballarat trike builder - I thought you might have been him at first, but your machines are different. If you want to hook up with him to compare notes, you'll most likely be able to locate him via Ballarat East Community Mens Shed, out on Eureka St, where he is (or at least used to be) a fairly active member. Of drop me a line and I can pass your contact details on to him.

You'll get to know all about hills if you ride to Daylesford for your first tour! Mrs Barefoot and I did our first tandem tour out that way, many years ago before we moved to Ballarat. Ballarat to Castlemaine in two days. Nice ride, but now I know the lay of the land much better I would be able to find much quieter back road routes than just grinding out the highway miles like we did.

Especially if you're still a bit tentative on the road, you should take a look at the Skipton Rail Trail. Being an old train line, it avoids the hills. There's some very long grades, but nothing steep.

tim
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:43 am

Hi Tim,

I meet some of the guys from BECMS running a stall at the Lake Wendouree Sunday market, and a Tim was mentioned, I'm guessing that was you :)
I keep meaning to get down there to say g'day, but never seem to get around to it.

The Skipton Rail Trail is one I was looking at, and I think it'll be preferable to Daylesford for a day trip, at least for now. Just gotta rustle up some company. Mrs Dent's bike has been ordered, but it'll be a while before it arrives, and she'll need some shorter rides first, and I think I "broke" my mate Dave on just 2 laps of the Lake. He's not been up for riding since. Poor DF riders and their "arse hatchet" seats ;)

Another ride I was pondering was the bike path along the Geelong road out to Bunninyong. I used to ride out there from Ballarat East as a kid, just not sure the route I'd take from Alfredton.

Dent.
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby barefoot » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:09 pm

DentedHead wrote:Hi Tim,

I meet some of the guys from BECMS running a stall at the Lake Wendouree Sunday market, and a Tim was mentioned, I'm guessing that was you :)
I keep meaning to get down there to say g'day, but never seem to get around to it.


Nah, that would be the Tim who builds recumbent trikes, who is the guy I just passed your email address on to ;-) . Not me.

You probably spoke to my Dad at a BECS stall, which is where he seems to spend most of his time. He's the one with a greying beard. No, I mean the other one with a greying beard. Hmmm. I think the greying beard is Mens Shed uniform.

My beard isn't greying significantly yet. Thus, I'm not part of the Mens Shed scene.

tim
Last edited by barefoot on Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby barefoot » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:43 pm

DentedHead wrote:Another ride I was pondering was the bike path along the Geelong road out to Bunninyong. I used to ride out there from Ballarat East as a kid, just not sure the route I'd take from Alfredton.


That trail's a good ride as far as Mt Clear, then it gets a bit messy on- and off-road to Buninyong. There's a few narrow-ish bridges through the new Canadian Lakes subdivision areas too, which could be a problem for your wide vehicle.

It could be a bit tricky getting there from Alfredton without using roads. A useful part-off-road part-back-streets route for you might be through Vic Park to the SE corner, down Winter St, dogleg across Pleasant St to Sebastopol St which takes you right across to Skipton St, parallel to La Trobe. From there, you're almost on to the Yarowee River trail which will take you in to town (at the back of the Bridge Mall supermarkets), where you can figure out a link-up with the Canadian Creek trail you're talking about.

Yarrowee trail also goes South - at least as far as Mt Clear - Sebas bridge, but it's a bit rugged in parts and I'm not sure I'd be going there on a trike.

tim
who has ridden most of these at various times towing a trail-a-bike, or a trailer, or on a cargo bike, or a combination of the three ;-)
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:14 am

Most roads I don't mind, other than ones like Howitt St. I just avoid them if I can. I'm rarely riding to a schedule, so a detour to keep away from roads doesn't bother me, and there's no point getting in the way if I don't need to. That route via Vic Park down to Bridge Mall sounds fun though, I think I'll give it a go. Sounds like the Canadian Creek trail has changed since I was a kid, which is a shame. Still, I'll take a trip down that way, and if I find a bridge I can't fit over it'll just be a shorter ride than planned ;)

He's the one with a greying beard. No, I mean the other one with a greying beard. Hmmm. I think the greying beard is Mens Shed uniform.
My beard isn't greying significantly yet. Thus, I'm not part of the Mens Shed scene.


Hmmm. This "compulsory beard" stuff is causing me problems too. I'm told a beard comes with all commercially bought recumbents, but of course, I didn't buy mine. I also can't put on weight. The only part of the recumbent "uniform" I can do is the sandals, which seem to be optional, and without the gut and beard, I don't see the point :(

Dent.
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:24 pm

Had a busy couple days in the garage, and the Cub is now functional, though not yet finished. I took the boy for some test rides/stress testing today with a make-shift seat (16mm MDF and foam fixed in place with good old duct tape) and he loves it :D

We found a few issues, most fixable, one not. The non-fixable problem was an oversight on my part. While I made sure the BB boom was the correct length (and is in fact somewhat adjustable), I forgot about the "Flintstones" reverse method, and while seated on it, his legs don't quite reach the ground. As such, he has to pretty much dismount to reverse. I should have foreseen this, and used 17" wheels on the front. Much too late to do anything about it now.

Another issue we found on the first test ride was to do with the rear wheel. I was given a Shimano Nexus 8 speed hub which I fitted instead of a 5 speed cassette equipped rear wheel, and planned to use a RD to allow the chain length to adjust to the BB boom, as well as routing the return side away from the chain stay. Unfortunately, this simply didn't work, as every time he back-pedaled the drive side went very slack, and dropped off the idler (there seems to be more resistance in the internally geared hub than a cassette fitted hub) causing it to rub on the underside of the seat frame when he resumed pedaling. As the RD was only there to facilitate adjusting to BB boom and routing the return side of the chain, I just removed it and added another idler that both routes the chain off the chain stay and doubles as a guide for the drive side idler. This means when we get around to lengthening the BB boom, we'll have to add some links to the chain too, but as this will be an infrequent bit of maintenance I don't see it as a major bother. Oh, the hub is also missing the gear-changie-dealie piece (technical term), so it's currently a single speed, presumably in it's low gear. The gear-changie-dealie piece should be arriving at my LBS in a week or so.

I also need to fit new brake pads to the front brakes, as the existing ones came from scrapped 17" K-mart bikes, and are old, ill fitting, and less effective than I'd like. However, this is a 5 min job, assuming my LBS has some on hand. At least I don't have to worry about him tipping it forward and going over the front. Yet.

The last issue that showed up on the second test ride (after ditching the RD and re-routing the chain) was his left hand head stem. Seems no matter how tight the head stem bolt is (where it fits into the kingpin inner, the bolt that pulls up the triangle piece inside the fork tube... not sure what it's called) there is still some slippage during hard cornering. This is particularly annoying, as I searched long and hard to find near matching head stems, and the two I've used were the closest to matching I could find, given that I didn't realize until after I'd attached the kingpins to the frame that they were slightly different sizes (internal diameters of 21mm and 22mm if memory serves). The smaller of the two I have only one head stem for. I've yet to take a closer look, so I'm hopeful its the larger of the two that's slipping, and I can simply swap out the either just the triangle piece, or if need be, the whole head stem.

Also, while the boy was impressed with the amount of chain grease on his leg, Mrs Dent was not. Seems the Cub will get a chain sheath too, most likely sooner rather than later.

Pics to come once the sun is up again (and probably after I make and fit the seat cover. The MDF/foam/duct tape is ugly as hell. The "lawn-chair" look is sooo much classier).

Dent.
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby John Lewis » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:46 pm

Re the slipping steerer in the head stem tube.

I had a similar problem on my wolf and the steerer was moving. Not good for diretional control at all.
I made a shim sleeve from a bit of coke can, wrapped it round the steerer tube and slipped it in.
Tightened it up and problem solved.
Just a thought.
John
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:54 pm

*facepalms*

Now that you mention it, I remember reading about how aluminum from cans is great "shim-stock" in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" years ago. Should have been the first thing I thought of.

Meh, it's late, and I'm tired ;)

Dent.
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby quedecree » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:57 pm

Hi 'Dent'. In Ballarat also and considering one of these three wheel contraptions. Would love to have a look and maybe bend your ear a little if you're out on the weekend at some stage. - John
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:37 pm

Sorry, John, I've been busy in the garage all weekend, and haven't even turned the puter on till now. If you want to get in touch (or anyone else for that matter) the following email gets checked semi-frequently: [email protected]
Just put something like "bents" or "trikes" in the subject.

Cub is as finished as it'll get prior to painting (still lacking chain sheath, and gear-changie-dealie, but otherwise done). Pics to come once Mrs Dent is done with the iPad their in.

Trike 3 is started, using the rear suspension from a Huffy tip-find. Basic frame is made, but I've yet to source more wheelchair hubs for the front wheels :(

Dent.
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:01 am

Pics of the (near) finished Cub...
Image
Image
Image
Image

I have some "trimming" to do (brake mounts) and plan to upgrade the fittings (mirror, hand grips etc), and the brake mounts and handle bar ends are getting some beefy rubber stoppers, but this and the paint job will get done closer to Christmas. I think I'll also swap that rear tyre for a knobbly one, as he's has experienced some grip issues going up gravely hills. Kind of a shame, as I think that tyre looks awesome...

And, the beginning of my next trike... The thin black tubes on the seat base were used to keep the frame square, and will be removed as more Cro-Mo braces get added. Once I know where I'll put them... maybe...
Image
Image

I added some more braces lower down the seat back today, as well as cleaning up the kingpins, then sat down to dismantle a 7 speed MTB rear wheel for its hub, only to find that it requires a special tool to get the cassette off :( As I want to save the spokes too, I can't get the hub out 'till I can get the cassette off. On the plus side, the wheel I've been using as a place-holder has a decent rim, and identically sized hub, so if I can get it's cassette off (which also requires a different special, tool) I can just lace the 7 speed hub straight on with the same spokes.

Anyway, this trike needs a name. I'm pondering "Kodiak", to stick with the bear theme, or "Ellipse" due to the elliptical crossbars salvaged from the huffy the rear triangle and suspension came from. Other ideas are welcomed :)

Dent.
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:16 am

Well, the Kodiak is now road-legal, although I still want to add a few finishing touches like a few bracing struts, some new mirrors, a park-brake and drink-holders. Maybe an ashtray :lol:
Unfortunately, the cassette with the 11 tooth gear was knackered, so I'm stuck with a 14 tooth cluster hub until a new one arrives at the LBS. I've re-laced all three wheels twice each now (I had the valve hole placed incorrectly on the front wheels the first time around, and was advised by the LBS to dab some grease on the spoke holes when using aluminium rims), and will have to do the rear again when the new cassette arrives :? It also wound up with new road tyres, as the only decent brake calipers I could find would not fit around the wider tyres I'd planned to use, so it was either buy new tyres, or buy new brakes. Tyres were cheaper, and in stock, so convenience and price won out. Feels fast though, even though I've been limited to going around in circles in a near-by car park.

As usual, I'll take some pics in the morning.

Dent.
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:47 am

Pic update:
Image
Image
Image

There seems to be a bend in the right crank, giving the pedal some off-set. I think I'll swap out the crank-set...
Oh, and as an added bonus, the two orange idlers have inbuilt LED's that flash when they spin, red on the right, and yellow on the left (which you can't really see due to the frame being in the way). Gravy!!!


Dent.
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby quedecree » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:28 pm

Looks very cool !! Looks like this one has brakes on both the front wheels? How's the suspension working ?
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby Riggsbie » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:57 pm

Looking good !

So how fast on the road tyres ? Scary fast ? Any wobbles ?


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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:55 pm

Well, I took the Kodiak for a test ride (about 10km round trip) and it seems I've built it a tad short. Measurements are comparable to the Grizzly, but I seem to sit further forward on the seat, possibly due to the hand-grips being a bit further forward, combined with a slightly more reclined back-rest. Looks like I'll have to "chop and insert" to extend to BB boom about 50-80mm. Either that, or use the other suspended BSO tip-find I have, and build a new frame, then transfer all the fittings over. The elliptical crossbar also limits placing of bottle holders and such, but other than that and the shortness, she rides pretty nice.

Riggsbie wrote:So how fast on the road tyres ? Scary fast ? Any wobbles ?


It has the same top-end gearing as the Grizzly, so I couldn't say it's "scary fast" other than the current lack of stress testing (as in, there's always the thought in the back of my head "if the frame collapsed now..."), but no wobbles. Seems to handle well at high (ish) speeds, though direct steering is always going to make high speeds twitchy.

quedecree wrote:Looks like this one has brakes on both the front wheels? How's the suspension working ?


Yeah, I went with independent front brakes. Much better braking than the Grizzly, though there is a tendency to brake-steer under heavy braking. On a low-grip surface (slick concrete or fine gravel for instance) I can still whip the tail end around! The suspension is nice, but as most of my weight is on the front wheels, it doesn't do a lot really. Basically, it means I can "straddle" pot-holes comfortably, but a rough road it still going to result in a rough ride. I'm going to have to work out a way to do front suspension for trike 4 or 5 (depending on whether I feel like using the IGH and "LP" sized chain ring to do a "racing" trike first).


Dent.
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby quedecree » Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:53 pm

DentedHead wrote: I'm going to have to work out a way to do front suspension for trike 4 or 5 (depending on whether I feel like using the IGH and "LP" sized chain ring to do a "racing" trike first).


And maybe a bigger shed.... :mrgreen:
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:55 pm

Hahaha, yeah, a bigger shed would be nice, but I don't see it happening. I spent the evening at the local war-gaming club selling miniatures from my car boot to free up some premium shelf space... Cleared out a stack of organizer trays, and probably 1 shelf's worth of space. Plus I made some cash :D

Going to start planning the "phat-ass" chopper tomorrow. Should be interesting. I'm going to base it off the Atomic Zombie "Phat Ass Extreme", as it's basically a recumbent with OSS anyway, but as it's going to use a Nissan 350Z rear rim, rather than a spoked rim it'll need some custom fabricated parts to attach the rim to the drive-train. It'll be a single speed job, but getting effective braking will be a challenge. The rim weighs a heap, and once rolling, will NOT want to stop!

Dent.
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby Riggsbie » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:00 am

I love the Phat Ass choppers !

looks highly impractical but so cool !! Are you planning a single speed with a jack shaft drive to the back wheel ?

I love the really wide section rear wheels.....would be cool for cruising around Torquay and Jan Juc !


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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:18 am

Way to go Dent great work as usual and liking the home made idlers nothing like use what is around plus it looks comfy and easy to get in/out off.

Ricky
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby DentedHead » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:50 am

Riggsbie wrote:I love the Phat Ass choppers !
looks highly impractical but so cool !! Are you planning a single speed with a jack shaft drive to the back wheel ?
I love the really wide section rear wheels.....would be cool for cruising around Torquay and Jan Juc !


Yeah, but to have the rim showing on the right, I'll need to run the chain on the left of the wheel. This shouldn't be too hard, as there will be (probably) a BB tube in front of the rear wheel I can use to mount the jack-shaft using a modified crank axle. I may wind up using a coaster hub from an old BMX to simplify the brakes. I hate the things, but the intended rider (IR) may be more partial to NOT colliding with things than having a freewheeling hub. The alternative is to mount two disc rotors within the rim, or a friction lever straight onto the tyre. I prefer the dual disc method, but it'll require the purchase of more new parts. Once I figure out how I'll make the axle I'll chat with the IR and see what he'd prefer in terms of effectiveness/convenience/cost.

}SkOrPn--7 wrote:Way to go Dent great work as usual and liking the home made idlers nothing like use what is around plus it looks comfy and easy to get in/out off.


Cheers Ricky, they're definitely my favorite idlers. Flashy lights are never uncool ;)

Dent.
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Re: Greetings from Ballarat, Recumbenteers :)

Postby Riggsbie » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:23 pm

Your work has inspired me.....

I have just purchased 6 plans from Atomic Zombie..... I really like the choppers !

Thinking 8 speed Alfine hub laced into an 18" motorcycle rim for the back end.......


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