trike first impressions

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AlexHuggs
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Re: trike first impressions

Postby AlexHuggs » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:50 pm

You definitely need a flag. I can't believe there's even an argument about it. How else do you shut sanctimonious pricks up?

zebee
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Re: trike first impressions

Postby zebee » Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:12 pm

max_torq wrote:And if I die on those 40 trips... I win! You'll fit a flag then?

remember often the trike is moving, the first thing people will see will be the moving flag, and then the trike. But the particular time you need it is when you are in a bike lane moving beside traffic going the same direction. A trike is so low alot of drivers can't see that low at something very close (trucks and buses in particular); you're in the dead ground. Imagine the cars in the lane next to you want to turn left and you want to go straight ahead. If you ride on the street, in the centre of town, near rush hour, you cannot afford to be invisible. Once will be enough to scare you, and that is how I learn't not to forget the flag.


I tell you what. If you die on one of those trips and the coroner says at the inquest that you would have lived if you had had a thin stick and a couple of square feet of material, I'll pay your beneficeries $50k and start a foundation to hand out free flags in your name. If you do not die then you get to decide if the flag really is doing what you think.

As a motorcyclist I know that drivers do not ever headcheck left. They do a cursory glance in a mirror aligned to see a large chunk of the side of their car. A car on the left is big enough that some bit of it will show up, but any motorcyclist who sits next to the left side of a car is going to get lanechanged into. Fact of life.[1]

If I am riding up the inside of moving cars then I have to be prepared for them to move across me. A flag will be invisible in that quick glance because it has no frontal area at all. The driver is expecting to see either nothing or else something the size, shape, and location of the bonnet of another car. Not a thin stick. And they won't see the thin stick.

So the rider has to lane position with intelligence. If the bike lane crosses an intersection on the left then you should not be approaching up the inside of a car that may turn into that lane until its turn decision point is past. If you rely on them to see that little stick I think you will one day be very unpleasantly surprised.

What I teach new motorcyclists is that they must not put themselves in a place where a careless rushed driver can hit them. Never sit to the left, never pass up the inside if there's space on the left where they can turn or change lanes.[2] Never trust a turn indicator: they aren't turning till the wheels are but they can turn those wheels quite suddenly.

Do not rely on any physical thing - light, flag, flouro vest - as your main line of defence and certainly not your only line. If you are tempted to, then go look at http://www.theinvisiblegorilla.com/gori ... iment.html. I did that experiment in a road safety class and I can tell you... I did *NOT* see the gorilla. I was shocked and embarassed. As were the 6 others in the class who also did not see it. 6 safety savvy traffic riding bikers with at least 10 traffic-crash free years of riding each.

Your main defence is your intelligence and your understanding of how other road users use the road. What car drivers do and don't do. What cyclists do and don't do. What pedestrians do and don't do. You can predict traffic behaviour fairly well, and you can give yourself the buffer zone you need so you have the time and room to react to something you did not predict.

Ride with brain in gear, not relying on gear.


[1] in fact a motorcyclist riding a fairly large fairly loud bike right next to the driver's door will get lane changed into. Ask me how I know this.

[2] big mistake a lot of lane splitters make, I haven't seen a hit yet but I have seen some very near misses.

custard
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Re: trike first impressions

Postby custard » Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:38 pm

AlexHuggs wrote:You definitely need a flag. I can't believe there's even an argument about it. How else do you shut sanctimonious pricks up?


Oh yes. It's lots of fun having a flag to point at - especially when when someone's complaining about not seeing you, and how you ought to have a flag. :D

max_torq
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Re: trike first impressions

Postby max_torq » Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:43 am

Kalgrm wrote:
max_torq wrote:Imagine the cars in the lane next to you want to turn left and you want to go straight ahead.

I'm not sure where you are, but at least in WA, it's illegal for bikes (and trikes) to overtake a vehicle on its left if that vehicle is turning left.

(Bike lanes always end before an intersection, BTW. When that bike lane ends, there won't be cars turning left from the lane next to you. They will be either going straight ahead or turning right. You will have occupied the left lane by this point.)


yeah, right...

its only illegal to pass a vehicles on its left, if they are moving (as per filtering).

my commute looks like this (last tuesday morning; sorry, there is a pause at the lights)


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Kalgrm
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Re: trike first impressions

Postby Kalgrm » Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:57 pm

Looks like a pretty good commute. All the cars are giving you a large margin when passing and the car turning left (@3:40) was well aware of your presence, giving way to you instead of turning over the top of you.

Were you making a point with the video or just showing us what it's like there?

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Graeme
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Re: trike first impressions

Postby eldavo » Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:34 pm

The point I got from it, was the cycle lane (proper one or not) doesn't stop at the intersection and left turning vehicles need to give way. Seems at some spots to also run up to the path to connect to other directions to bypass the traffic controls if turning left maybe, like at end of video?

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Re: trike first impressions

Postby max_torq » Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:03 pm

yes, bike lanes do not end before a intersection, in fact are designed so you stop in front and to the left of left turning cars. The camera can't see the driver of the taxi, the driver of the taxi therefore cannot see the trike: All he could see was a flag. Just showing a real-life and commonplace event where the flag is useful to other road users, and possibly preventing a mishap.

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Re: trike first impressions

Postby Kalgrm » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:44 pm

max_torq wrote:yes, bike lanes do not end before a intersection, in fact are designed so you stop in front and to the left of left turning cars. The camera can't see the driver of the taxi, the driver of the taxi therefore cannot see the trike: All he could see was a flag. Just showing a real-life and commonplace event where the flag is useful to other road users, and possibly preventing a mishap.

Yes, I did wonder about the taxi and why you pulled up in that location. If I were in your shoes, I would have stopped behind the taxi, but that's your call. Relying on him/her seeing a flag would not be something I'd do.

And yes, I do see that your bike lanes (for want of the better term) were not finishing before the intersection. One of those "bike boxes" would have been a good addition there.

Cheers,
Graeme
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Old Hutcho
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Re: trike first impressions

Postby Old Hutcho » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:32 pm

Well guys.

After many years of riding DF bikes, my back became so bad I had to give it up. Riding that is. Not happy.

So I have been looking around for a trike. Not too seriously, just half heartedly. Lurking around here. Usual stuff, will I or wont I?

Last week, I walked into my LBS and there on the wall was an older model Greenspeed GTO. Now I have to say that in my wildest dreams (money allowing) I would have bought a Greenspeed, with a 14 speed Rohloff hub and a Schlumpf 2 speed bottom bracket, Magura hydraulic disc brakes, Tioga comp pool tyres.

So there I was, looking at an identically equipped trike first delivered in 2003, with the dimples still on the original tyres, no wear anywhere that I could see and absolutely unmarked. For about a third of new price!

Naturally, being an impetuous bastard (that's got me into some issues over the years too, but theres other times for those stories), I bought it. Right there. On the spot. Never ridden one, never rode this one.

Took delivery, cleaned the dust off it, had to get my grandson out of it, and rode it on rural roads near to my home in Nowra NSW.

First impressions were that this bike is a rocket. Responsive, solid, quality piece of gear.

I had all the reservations of not being seen etc. So blinkies on the front and back, and a flag. Did all of 12km, in a very heavy Southeaster. First thing I noticed was how fast I was going, except my Garmin was telling me about half what I was feeling. The Garmin was right. My speed was embarrassing. However, I persevered. Lost the flag off the trike about 2km in, didn't realise it. Traffic behind me all slowed and waited till oncoming traffic went past and then overtook me at a safe distance. On my upright bikes they would have squeezed me.

The bike is so quick on the steering that any sort of harsh input at speed would see you across two lanes in a blink, so I got very light touches happening very early in the ride. All sorts of trouble figuring out which way to twist the Rohloff to change up or down. (Half the time I twisted the wrong way).

I began to cramp in odd places ( I haven't been on any bike for over 12 months and I am 67, so there), inside quads, shin to name a couple. Breathing and heart rate were all good, I suspect because my legs and feet were on a level closer to my heart. I can see that there is a fair bit of improvement in my pedalling technique, although I did find that when I concentrated and spun more fluently the trike responded very well, and my effort became less and the speed improved markedly.

So now begins the long process of teaching muscles, and I am prepared ( I have no other option except to give up riding altogether) to give it 12 months to learn to ride this thing.

All things considered, I am very happy to have the thing and I can see there is a lot of promise in it.

regards

Old Hutcho

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Re: trike first impressions

Postby Duck! » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:54 pm

I think not having ridden at all for so long will be playing as much part in the discomfort as the new pedalling position. That's not to say the trike isn't part of the equation, it definitely is; even though I've been racing trikes for 10 years, I still find the first couple of sessions back after an off-season hurt a bit more than normal. Keep riding, you'll adapt to it soon enough. :-)

Greenspeeds are really nice chassis to ride. The steering is responsive without being too aggressive about it (but can still tip you on your ear if you're too aggro on the handlebars!). Lean your bodyweight into the corners, it'll help nail the inside wheel down. If you do lift a wheel, steer out of the corner, not tighter in!
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: trike first impressions

Postby TrikeTragic » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:56 am

Old Hutcho wrote:Well guys.
.......

Took delivery, cleaned the dust off it, had to get my grandson out of it, and rode it on rural roads near to my home in Nowra NSW.

First impressions were that this bike is a rocket. Responsive, solid, quality piece of gear. ..........

regards

Old Hutcho


Welcome to the world of Trike Grin OH! Re. sore bits: even "hardened upright" riders find a few muscles they didn't know about when they ride a recumbent trike, so don't be put off. Your 'bent legs will take something like 4 or six weeks of riding to settle in - so yep, go out and enjoy! :)

Cheers
Alan
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Re: trike first impressions

Postby OldBloke » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:40 pm

Old Hutcho wrote:Well guys.

After many years of riding DF bikes, my back became so bad I had to give it up. Riding that is. Not happy.

So I have been looking around for a trike. Not too seriously, just half heartedly. Lurking around here. Usual stuff, will I or wont I?

Last week, I walked into my LBS and there on the wall was an older model Greenspeed GTO. Now I have to say that in my wildest dreams (money allowing) I would have bought a Greenspeed, with a 14 speed Rohloff hub and a Schlumpf 2 speed bottom bracket, Magura hydraulic disc brakes, Tioga comp pool tyres.

So now begins the long process of teaching muscles, and I am prepared ( I have no other option except to give up riding altogether) to give it 12 months to learn to ride this thing.

All things considered, I am very happy to have the thing and I can see there is a lot of promise in it.

regards

Old Hutcho


Welcome into the wonderful and addictive world of triking. I started triking post retirement at 60+ and really enjoy it. Even managed to convince my wife to join me, so we have two trikes.

It takes a while for recumbent legs to develop. I was never very fit and it took me about 6 months to show some leg muscle development. One of the secrets of recumbent riding is to go down another cog and spin.

Enjoy!

Ken

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Re: trike first impressions

Postby geebee » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:14 pm

@Old Hutcho, wow nice and rare find especially so well fitted out, as others have said the muscle usage is a touch different than an upright, gear down and spin is the safest option as you can put a lot of pressure on your knees, seat to pedals will take weeks of tweaking at leat for me, 2mm can make a world of difference but then I have a damaged knee.
Hope you enjoy your knew ride for a long time. :)

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Re: trike first impressions

Postby Duck! » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:44 pm

AlexHuggs wrote:You definitely need a flag. I can't believe there's even an argument about it. How else do you shut sanctimonious pricks up?

Shoving the thing down their throat might help....
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Cardy George
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Re: trike first impressions

Postby Cardy George » Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:53 pm

Duck! wrote:Lean your bodyweight into the corners, it'll help nail the inside wheel down. If you do lift a wheel, steer out of the corner, not tighter in!


Or hold your line and re-live your DF days! :lol: Broke plenty for spokes on the school HPV cars when I used to help build and race them :mrgreen:

Guess it was lucky I was chief wheel builder.........

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Re: trike first impressions

Postby max_torq » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:46 am

Nice score, the GTO have the couplers for taking it apart so you can pack it in a suitcase. I have a similar spec GTS. I know about the rohloff shifts, the other problem I had was shifting two gears at once, so you it goes from spinning to grinding and by the time you click back you lose momentum. They really handle like sports cars; keep the power on around corners to balance understeer. If you find it is too slow, well, you have the perfect e-assist platform.

Old Hutcho
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Re: trike first impressions

Postby Old Hutcho » Tue May 10, 2016 8:32 pm

Well. I have had the Greenspeed for a few weeks now and I am gobsmacked how much I can ride this without getting sick of it. Its pure enjoyment. I have made a conscious decision not to worry about how fast I am going, just enjoy the ride for what it is and its working. Its just pure heaven to be back on a bike (trike) again and pedalling at a leisurely 20 kph through the rolling farmlands around here. I just cant get enough of it.

I came back from a 25 km ride on Saturday morning and bumped into some of the guys from the local BUG. They crowded around and asked all the questions. I invited them to ride it around the carpark as much as they wanted. About 45 minutes later, they had all had a turn and some were lining up for a second run. Not too sure if I sold any of them on a recumbent but they all had smiles. Nice feeling.

I have made a couple of mods to the trike. The first thing I had to do was get that Rohloff changer away from my handlegrip. So I bought a set of MTB handlebar extensions, cut and turned it down to length on my lathe and mounted just the changer at right angles to the vertical handlegrip so that the changer is now horizontal, and on a different plane to the grip. Best thing I ever did. Now it is instinctive to just roll the changer forward or back depending on which way you want to go. I used the other one to mount my Garmin on the mirror post. Nice and close where I can see it and get to it to switch on and off on the fly if I need to.

Pretty happy camper. I would love to get together with any other trike owners in Sydney or south of there for a chinwag/ride. Anybody got anything coming up?

regards

Old Hutcho

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Re: trike first impressions

Postby }SkOrPn--7 » Tue May 10, 2016 9:43 pm

Hutcho glad your enjoying the new toy and that riding smile is back. I did the same thing mount my changer on a new mount that angled down and away from my grip it was also one of my beter mods I did. I also did the same to my park brake got it out the way and angled down the same.

Ricky

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Re: trike first impressions

Postby zebee » Thu May 12, 2016 9:45 pm

Keep an eye on the NSW forum for the Retro Rides, usually 2 'bents on those: my 2 wheeler and the Green Rocket velomobile. Cruisy rides usually Cooks River or various Western areas. If it's around Prospect Dam another trike sometimes appears.

I have PM'd you Domo's email, he's been organising recumbent rides now and then, and can give you the facebook and/or email list details.

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