Brief report on the M5 CHR

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Brief report on the M5 CHR

Postby Low Racer » Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:53 am

Hi guys,
Been riding the M5 for almost 3 weeks now and here is what I really think of it.

The frame, fork and seat are work of art. Beautifully crafted and very light. The frame is very stiff and hence not very compliant. The ride can be described as jaw-jittering on any rough patch of chip sealed roads or crossing those dreaded wooden plank bridges. The bike has a 650c wheel bolted to a single aero fork and rear is a 700c. The front wheel is held in placed by a 6mm screw. I think M5 could have used something more substantial. Doesn't instill a lot of confident when you are coming down a steep hill at 70-80km/hr. The screw did come loosed during last week ROMAC ride and the front wheel went all funny. I am lucky that I didn't crash when going at high speed with Glenn. I have since blue loctited it and seems to be working ok. I am more conscious of it now and doing more periodic checked throughout a ride. Please check all critical bolts and nuts on your bike periodically and tighten them properly. Some bolts definitely need some blue loctite e.g. disc brake rotor bolts.

I have dropped the chain because the stock configuration just didn't work for me. The chain has the tendency to derailed when back pedaling and really p**s me off. As I am running dropped chain on the low racer too, it didn't bother me at all. It was noisier with the chain tubes too. I still run a single chain tube. This is to prevent me from dirtying my knick or injuring my thigh as the chain does run pretty close to the right inner thigh. Heel strike is a problem when doing tight turns. There are various techniques that you can use to overcome it and BROL is a good website for tips in regards to this.

Even though it rides similar to the low racer, there are subtle differences which I had to adapt to. It was more twitchy than the LR but this disappeared after accruing more hours on the bike. When I jumped back on my low racer, I found that I had to adjust myself to the different twitchiness on the LR. Guess you get use to it and you don't notice after a while until something change i.e. ride another bike. My inner thigh muscle definitely get more work out than on the low racer.

Back to the frame stiffness. This definitely make the power transfer extremely well which equate to better climbing/acceleration abilities. It is easier to haul up a steep hill than my low racer. Although I don't have a heart rate monitor, it's definitely much lower than when attempting hill climbing on the low racer. The descend is actually slower than my low racer. I could get up to speed a lot quicker on the low racer than the M5. The low racer is at least 5kg heavier than the M5 which does make a different when descending.

I went for a 60km hilly ride this morning with a group of avid cyclists (one in his late 60s). The bike performed beautifully and what a blast riding along the undulating hills. I am beginning to like the M5 a lot.

Regards

Chong
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by BNA » Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:19 pm

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Postby Leigh_caines » Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:19 pm

Interesting
I'll have to come ride with you one day to get a closer look...

Trouble with all bikes is .... one seems to have to give up comfort for speed...
And these no such thing as the "perfect bike".... only perfect for one job or another but not for "all"
But we'll all keep working on finding that 'one and only bike' :)
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Postby Uba Tracker » Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:22 pm

Leigh_caines wrote:Trouble with all bikes is .... one seems to have to give up comfort for speed...
And these no such thing as the "perfect bike".... only perfect for one job or another but not for "all"
But we'll all keep working on finding that 'one and only bike' :)


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Here it is.................................... :wink:
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Postby PEDALPOWER44 » Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:56 pm

Hi Harry,

I have always liked that seat of your's.

Luckily you didn't sell the Lynxx hey :wink:

Cheers

Steve :D

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Postby Uba Tracker » Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:35 pm

G'day Steve, you wouldn't credit how often I think that same thought.

Hi Chong, I enjoyed your short term review of the new sled, sorry for hijacking your thread mate, this is about your M5 not my 'Blynxx'. I found your description of the frame's stiffness quite interesting, some years ago I had a CF MTB and dead set that thing was the opposite of rigid it was like riding a bike made of liquorice. It made it very unpredictable and inefficient in terms of getting the power to the ground, not that it's a fair comparo though, DF versus Monocoque. Good to hear it's ringing your bells. :wink:

cheers

Harry
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Postby Low Racer » Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:31 pm

Did 19km this morning just under 30 minutes, averaging 36.5km/hr. The route is mainly flat with few low sloping hills. The M5 absolutely flies along this route.

Chong
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Selling Lowracer

Postby Storm » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:02 am

I see your lowracer on listed Ebay, do you still have your carbon M5 ?

It's been a while now can you give us a update on your impressions of the M5 compared to the CrMo lowracer? maybe your selling because the M5 is more practical, lighter etc?

Thanks for your input here Lowracer I have appreciated it.
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Postby Freddyflatfoot » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:51 pm

Oh? Is it?
Chong, I'll have to check it out!
Cheers!
Rob
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Re: Selling Lowracer

Postby Low Racer » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:17 pm

Storm wrote:I see your lowracer on listed Ebay, do you still have your carbon M5 ?

It's been a while now can you give us a update on your impressions of the M5 compared to the CrMo lowracer? maybe your selling because the M5 is more practical, lighter etc?

Thanks for your input here Lowracer I have appreciated it.


Hi Storm,
Yes, I am selling my low racer. I am not riding it as much now. I am also, ugh... buying a df :shock: . I need the fund to purchase the bike. I have been riding with a fast group of dfs and just pure fun. I am on my M5 though. I want to try some racing and can't do it on M5.

M5 is a great bike and love the ride. Fast, comfortable, responsive and a good climber too. I can keep up with my df friends on the hill with the M5. Tried it once with the low racer and got dropped like a heavy stone. The ride on the low racer is more compliance but you loose just that bit of power to the back wheel. Sure more comfortable than the M5 on rough road but when you travelling fast on the M5, it seems to glide through those chip sealed road. I love my M5.

Here is my new ride for racing. Purchased it from another BNA member here.

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M5 with 700c wheels

Postby Low Racer » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:39 pm

Tried the M5 with a 700c fork and Zipp wheel set. Sit a bit higher than the original set up with a 650c wheel and fork. The 700c fork is a cheapy carbon fork from fleabay. Seems to work well but there's always this niggling feeling that it will shatter any moment when I am screaming down a descent at 75km/hr or hit a pothole. To be honest I can't notice any differences except the wheels look great and may actually add some aerodynamic to the bike. A bit heavier with the 700c set up, as you would expect. Heel strike was a huge problem with the 700c set up and the crank can actually dug into the tyre and caused a sudden stop. Luckily was doing under 10km/hr when this happened. Only a problem because I am vertically challenged. If you are a taller person, this would be a non issue. I have since swapped it back to original set up and notice I am faster on the hills and not much difference on the flat. The bike is obviously lighter too with the 650c. The 650c is a mono fork by the way.

Image

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Re: Selling Lowracer

Postby just4tehhalibut » Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:18 am

Storm wrote:I see your lowracer on listed Ebay, ....


Thanks for the heads up. This is a little OT but I can't get how Ebay searches for stuff, this lowracer for instance is listed under a title mentioning 'recumbent' but I can't find it using that as a keyword like I normally use, it comes up under 'bent'. And then sometimes Ebay ignores your keyword and brings up something else. And I like the little subscribed links that appear at the bottom of a search, for HPVs you get veneral disease helplines. And none of this will go away next month when Ebay introduces its own diseased new search program.

You might want to add the keyword 'recumbent' to your listing, if this can be done. It'll widen the market.
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Postby Storm » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:37 am

Damn it looks nice with those ZIPP wheels, it's good to hear your reports on hill climbing with a light bent, I feel like I'm riding a bike made from lead when I encounter minor hills, cause we cant stand it always seems much slower and alot more effort.
That new DF looks sweet too, I have back injuries and can only ride a DF for short distances, I will probably never buy an expensive DF but I appreciate their purposes ;)
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Re: Brief report on the Colnago

Postby Low Racer » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:43 am

Ooh!!! My neck, wrist and sore bum. Jumped back on the M5 and ZIL - No pain and faster. On my regular hill ride, I could get easily get up to 70-75km/hr on the M5. With the Colnago, I could only manage 58km/hr. I will preservere for the moment. I feel a bit unsafe too with my head tilting forward when in the dropped position.

PS Low racer has finally been sold and on its way to QLD.
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Re: Brief report on the M5 CHR

Postby Freddyflatfoot » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:27 pm

Only 58? On a downhill run?
I did some hills myself today, and hit about 72 going down one. Not bad, previous best was just on 70. But I backed off this time, roads were a bit wet.
Also did some rollers at between 50-60 kph.
Hill climbing was good too, never even used the granny! And that was 10-12% hills (est).
Good to see the low racer going to a good home! I was tempted.........................
Seems like you really know which bike you'll/should be riding.
When are selling the DF?
Cheers!
Rob
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Re: Brief report on the M5 CHR

Postby Low Racer » Sat May 09, 2009 8:30 pm

Freddyflatfoot wrote:When are selling the DF?


Hi Rob,
Looks like I will be offloading the DF. It is a good ride but not my type of ride. I feel unsafe on it and riding in the pack is very unsafe. When I am on my M5, either I hang at the back or jump to the front and let the chase begin. Much more fun and in better control. Several buddies had already offerred to take it off me for the same price I paid. Good huh!! Looking for N+1, maybe a raptobike frameset :lol: or save up for a Trisled Avatar :shock:
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Re: Brief report on the M5 CHR

Postby Freddyflatfoot » Sat May 09, 2009 9:28 pm

Ah, the Raptobike! I've been teasing myself with that one over the last few days!
Reckon it should make a nice, low cost speed machine!
And I've thought that FWD would be worth toying with, especially after seeing John Klujis on his Xevon FWD low racer!
That bike flies!
Cheers!
Rob
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Re: Brief report on the M5 CHR

Postby william » Mon May 11, 2009 8:48 pm

Rob,
Check the dollar.
Now is the best time and you save huge as a frame set only.
I'm looking seriously too... Ooooowh! (yes/no/yes/no/yes?)

william.
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Re: Brief report on the M5 CHR

Postby Freddyflatfoot » Mon May 11, 2009 10:20 pm

Maybe Arnold needs an Australian distributor?
And yes, with the dollar slowly creeping up, it could be a good time to buy!
I reckon you could probably build one sub $2000?
Cheers!
Rob
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Re: Brief report on the M5 CHR

Postby Low Racer » Sat May 16, 2009 10:34 pm

Image

I am very much into blinging my M5 with "exotic" wheels from evil bay. A pick up a 10yrs+ Specialised 3 spokes composite wheel a month ago. Had some initial teething problem setting it up on the M5 which I had resolved now. The wheel is a lot heavier but very stiff as you could imagine. I took it out for a serious spin today with the fast df bunch. Harder on the hills with the extra weight. On the flat or downhill (once the speed built up), I perceived the wheel help you along. Am I right that heavier wheels do have extra inertia which helps you with maintaining speed better on the flat?

Cross-posting at BROL.
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Re: Brief report on the M5 CHR

Postby bradwoodbr » Sun May 17, 2009 12:04 am

As far as my research goes, yes you are correct generally speaking. If you have extra weight at the edges of the wheel then you will have greater inertia. But if the extra weight is mostly in or near the hub then it won't make too much difference, jsut harder up the hills because you are carrying more mass.

By the way, in the photo of your bike, why is your chain crossed on the big chain ring and the big cluster gear?
You know never to ride it like that don't you. :)
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Re: Brief report on the M5 CHR

Postby Low Racer » Sun May 17, 2009 8:16 am

bradwoodbr wrote:By the way, in the photo of your bike, why is your chain crossed on the big chain ring and the big cluster gear?
You know never to ride it like that don't you. :)

Thanks Brad.
I do ride like that for most short rolling hills :oops: . I find that I don't lose too much ground with that gear combination. I know in DF world, it is inadvisable to do that due to cross chaining. Not a problem with recumbent, right? Is there something else I am missing??

The weight of the wheel is distributed mainly at the base of the spokes. When I spin the wheel, it will pick up speed as the spoke travelling downward rotation. So you get a slow - fast - slow - fast rotation. This lead me to the assumption that it does help with maintaning speed on the flat. With the wheel travelling at 40-45km/hr, the wheel possibly may behave disc-like???
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Re: Brief report on the M5 CHR

Postby bradwoodbr » Sun May 17, 2009 6:44 pm

I was advised never to ride with the chain crossed on my recumbent as there is too much stress on the rear derailleur and it may get damaged. This advice was given when I asked how to get the correct chain length. So I have never done it. You would easily get that gear ratio elswhere in the range withoug crossing the chain.
I think you are on the right track with the wheel mass and rotational inertia. When you are stronger on the uphills they will never catch you. Be careful the guys don't change the rules and have "First one back buys." :D
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Re: Brief report on the M5 CHR

Postby Kalgrm » Sun May 17, 2009 8:09 pm

bradwoodbr wrote:By the way, in the photo of your bike, why is your chain crossed on the big chain ring and the big cluster gear?
You know never to ride it like that don't you. :)

That really only applies to DF bikes where the length of the chain stays means the chain has to go through large lateral bends to accommodate the cross-chaining. It wears the chain, chain ring and rear cogs out more quickly.

On a 'bent, the length of chain ensures the angular displacement is negligible, so you're not adding any additional wear by cross chaining.

Regarding the inertia, I doubt you'd notice the extra effect of less than 2kg as a percentage of your total inertia, even if it is all rotational mass, especially when it comes to climbing a long hill.

Cheers,
Graeme
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Re: Brief report on the M5 CHR

Postby chuckchunder » Sun May 17, 2009 8:25 pm

Kalgrm wrote:
bradwoodbr wrote:By the way, in the photo of your bike, why is your chain crossed on the big chain ring and the big cluster gear?
You know never to ride it like that don't you. :)

That really only applies to DF bikes where the length of the chain stays means the chain has to go through large lateral bends to accommodate the cross-chaining. It wears the chain, chain ring and rear cogs out more quickly.

On a 'bent, the length of chain ensures the angular displacement is negligible, so you're not adding any additional wear by cross chaining.

Regarding inertia.........long hill

Cheers,
Graeme


True, except that some recumbents use quite large chainrings to get higher gears (for those itty bitty 20" rear wheels), with rear cluster/cassettes that include large granny gears for the climbing of the hills...... this combined with rear der's that may not have enough chain take up means you need to avoid a big/big combination to prevent damaging the rear derailleur, like what brad said.....

cheers

glen
Last edited by chuckchunder on Mon May 18, 2009 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brief report on the M5 CHR

Postby Low Racer » Sun May 17, 2009 9:06 pm

Kalgrm wrote:Regarding the inertia, I doubt you'd notice the extra effect of less than 2kg as a percentage of your total inertia, even if it is all rotational mass, especially when it comes to climbing a long hill.

Cheers,
Graeme


The extra weight is a drag going uphill. This wheel was designed for flat TT or indooor velodrome. The Flying Scotman - Graeme Obree used the same type of wheel on his "Old Faithful" for his records achievement.
After trying out the wheel, the increased in speed and also maintaning it is very noticeable. It is better than my rear Zipp wheel on the fast flat.
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