Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby biker jk » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:51 am

TUEs are widely abused. This is a fact and not conjecture. That's a good reason to abolish them. Hiding behind doctor-patient confidentiality means the TUE system can never work. Does Wiggins really have asthma or pollen allergies? How can we know?

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:10 pm

I don't think anyone is saying they are not being gamed and I don't like it either. However if it's done within the WADA regulations, as much as we may not like it, it's still not doping.

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby biker jk » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:45 pm

The story behind the story: The journalist who exposed Team Sky

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/11/story-behind-story-journalist-exposed-team-sky/

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby fat and old » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:30 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:I don't think anyone is saying they are not being gamed and I don't like it either. However if it's done within the WADA regulations, as much as we may not like it, it's still not doping.


Pedro Delgado agrees! :lol:

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby AUbicycles » Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:23 am

The cyclingtips interview is fairly good. Appears to be quite candid and shows how Team Sky went into damage control and got caught out by the journo for lies.

The Wiggins tv interview and responses to injecting ‘medicine’ with a needle create more suspicion than clarity in the already murky waters.

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby biker jk » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:39 am

Under 23 Colombian national champion popped for CERA says friend gave him what he thought were vitamins. You can't make this stuff up. :roll:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/robinson-lopez-blames-cera-positive-on-bad-advice/#disqus_thread

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby Arbuckle23 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:07 am

biker jk wrote:Under 23 Colombian national champion popped for CERA says friend gave him what he thought were vitamins. You can't make this stuff up. :roll:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/robinson-lopez-blames-cera-positive-on-bad-advice/#disqus_thread


It is always someone else's fault :roll:

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby trailgumby » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:47 am

biker jk wrote:The story behind the story: The journalist who exposed Team Sky

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/11/story-behind-story-journalist-exposed-team-sky/

Great article. Exposed some interesting issues.

The AD authorities need to be given more muscle.

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby find_bruce » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:42 am

Eight riders test positive at Vuelta a Colombia 7 for CERA, apparently as a result of "intelligence led" doping controls. So why exactly has it taken from August when the tests were done until now to announce the results & provisional suspensions ?

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby biker jk » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:33 pm

US Masters national champion banned for four years. Turned in by partner after breakup. She stopped using testosterone after her voice began to change. :shock:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/usada-bans-blandford-for-four-years/

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby biker jk » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:22 pm


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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:31 pm

Chris Froome has been now reported to have exceeded permitted levels for asthma drug Salbutamol during the Spanish Vuelta.

Under World Anti-Doping Agency rules, riders are allowed a level of 1,000 nanograms per millilitre. However the 32-year-old was found to have twice that in a urine sample taken during the Tour of Spain.

The Guardian understands lawyers and scientists are working on behalf of Froome and Team Sky to challenge the result, which is why it has not been made public until now. However if the Briton is unable to offer a sufficient explanation for the abnormal finding or challenge the result itself he will forfeit his Vuelta title under the rules of cycling’s world governing body, the UCI.


Full Story in The Guardian

Side note - IMO there was no 'sufficient explanation' for the TUE's but they got through that. Not very transparent at the moment.



But wait... there's more

I found a number of studies about the effect of asthma drug Salbutamol and a number concluded that there were no significant effects. One study showed a possible 1.8 - 1.9% performance improvement for endurance cycling but it was inconclusive because of the uncertainty how much could actually be attributed.

In 2015 WADA ran a test with the University of Tasmania where a more definite potential for abuse was identified.

Dr Jacobson said there was increasing evidence that salbutamol, the most commonly used asthma relief medication, was a performance enhancer.

"There is the potential for somebody to use it to increase their performance, particularly at the elite level," he said.


Professor Walters said he was worried about the amounts WADA currently allowed.

"It allows up to 16 puffs of [salbutamol] a day. If you had asthma and needed that, you [would] probably need to go to the emergency department and get sorted out," he said.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-21/a ... er/6961068

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby MichaelB » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:50 pm

Oh dear, this will be interesting.....

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby MichaelB » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:50 pm

Just read the article and nearly spat out my drink when I saw this from the oh so squeaky clean Brailsford

"There are complex medical and physiological issues which affect the metabolism and excretion of Salbutamol. We're committed to establishing the facts and understanding exactly what happened on this occasion," Brailsford said in the team release.

What he means is “We are going to ask every expert to come up with an excuse that will make potentially plausible and see if we can get away with it”

Reality is, like Ulissi, and excess lead to a suspension and can’t understand how Froome would be any different.

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:25 pm

With the TUEs, the cyclingtips article with the journalist interview showed how Team Sky were trying to work out 'their story' (excuse) and there is no reason why this would be any different.

Months have now past and there is plenty of time to both pick a story and also try and predict the risks.... e.g. counter arguments.

It is interesting that the guardian article has a Froome comment "Everybody knows I have asthma".... Maybe I haven't been following it as closely, but this is news to me. I won't argue that he hasn't been seen with a puffer before - but it amazing how many problems leading athletes have, and why they aren't all in bed trying to get better instead of participating in elite level sports.

The reality is more likely that riders are pushing the limits as far as possible with the supplements and things which are not formally banned, but are certainly not in the spirit of fair competition.

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby DavidS » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:32 pm

Yeah, lots of elite athletes with asthma, totally suss. If you have asthma would elite sports be the obvious choice for a career? I think not.

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby trailgumby » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:50 pm

DavidS wrote:Yeah, lots of elite athletes with asthma, totally suss. If you have asthma would elite sports be the obvious choice for a career? I think not.

DS

Swimmers. Many start in that sport as a way of getting exercise in a humid environment to minimise the likelihood of getting an attack of EIA. Unsurprisingly, a proportion end up demonstrating some talent.

For many cyclists, asthma is a consequence - "Pursuiter's Hack" is a short term example I can think of. For myself, while nowhere near elite, I frequently find myself on asthma meds for several weeks to a month after an upper respiratory tract infection to settle my airways. I'm currently going through this phase as I type.

Given how hard elites push themselves in training and racing, I would not be surprised if this is common among them too.

That said, if the limit is equivalent to 16 puffs of salbutamol a day, and he has doubled that, I am immediately suspicious.

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby G@v » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:18 pm

Some comments on Twitter tonight:

https://twitter.com/vamosalberto/status/940885568631779328?s=17

6th of September, Froome had a horrible day on Los Machucos and lost a lot of time.
7th of September (day of positive test), he delivered a crucial blow to Nibali.
The drug more than likely was the deciding factor in the race. He should be stripped (and banned, but defo stripped)


https://twitter.com/MRasmussen1974/status/940860049500536832?s=17

So Froome and the @skyteam doc. apparently felt he needed a little extra salbutamol after the to Los Machucos on the 6th of September. As a result he manage to stay with @albertocontador and drop @vincenzonibali on the 7th of September to Santo Toribio de Liébana. #NoBStalk

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby g-boaf » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:19 pm

DavidS wrote:Yeah, lots of elite athletes with asthma, totally suss. If you have asthma would elite sports be the obvious choice for a career? I think not.

DS



Umm, you'd be surprised how many do have it, some who have no idea about it - they only discover it when the symptoms become sufficiently bad enough that it can't just be explained away as pushing yourself very hard. I know of a few who do have it.

trailgumby wrote:Given how hard elites push themselves in training and racing, I would not be surprised if this is common among them too.


But, but, people have pushed themselves for centuries, don't you know? :D ;)

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby Thoglette » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:34 pm

MichaelB wrote:Oh dear, this will be interesting.....

Based on history (having watched the Landis case in detail), I can't see how he can avoid losing his TdF and VaE titles, as he's got A&B and the precedent seems to be a 9 mo back dated ban.

That is, without some significant "spin" from Team Sky and the UCI.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby G@v » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:44 pm

It’s not looking good for Froome.

https://twitter.com/ffflow/status/940906261738082304?s=17

The day of the adverse test, 55 sec in, Froome specifically asked about illness... https://youtu.be/SkBT13_ELCM


Said he was fine. No mention of any issues with asthma or illness at the time or day before when he lost time.

In a recent statement by Froome (can't remember where I read it) he said that he was just saying the above on the day so his rivals wouldn't take advantage of the situation if they knew he was having issues. That's understandable.

However why no mention of it after the race? Surely if you were battling 'severe asthma' you would mention it to an interviewer or something after winning the Tour. It would have made it more of an achievement. But no mention of it until now.

Froome said his severe asthma was an issue towards the end of the Vuelta. But he was taking time off his rivals and had some very good performances towards the end of the race, so it doesn't really make sense. Doesn't seem so severe at all.
Last edited by G@v on Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby MichaelB » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:09 am

Yep, nothing fishy here .

Bet the team doc is sweating a bit, especially since they were really watching him and his illness.

Puts his stance against doping into a bit of a credibility black hole when he’s happy to puff that much on asthma meds (whether he needed them or not).

Also, it’s not just one sample, but the A & B for two separate days.

RCS May have an extra $2 Mill to spend now ....

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby silentC » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:41 am

Nibali has asthma too.

"I have the same problem, but when it rains the pollen doesn't bother me and I don't use medication," Nibali said. "In that period it rained a lot in Spain, so it seems strange to me that Froome has had bad asthma."


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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby biker jk » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:30 am

I wonder if Froome's AAF would ever have been made public if Uncle Brian Cookson was still at the helm of the UCI? It took the Guardian and Le Monde to reveal the news. This raises the question of how many other times Froome has sailed close to the wind with Salbutamol but it was all sorted behind closed doors?

On the Team Sky "explanation" for Frrome's AAF, if it relies on dehydration for the "inflated" presence of Salbutamol in his urine then how the hell did Froome do so well on stage 18 when he had severe asthma and was dehydrated as well. :roll:

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby Chuck » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:02 pm

biker jk wrote:Chris Froome returns adverse analytical finding for Salbutamol

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris-froome-returns-adverse-analytical-finding-for-salbutamol/


I bet you were doing cartwheels when you found out about this :lol:
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