Lance Armstrong's test results posted online

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Lance Armstrong's test results posted online

Postby Aushiker » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:38 pm

G'day

n the wake of anti-doping expert Don Catlin parting ways with Lance Armstrong, word has come from the Armstrong camp that the seven-time winner of the Tour de France has enlisted Ramsus Damsgaard to oversee his testing program for 2009.

Detailed blood test results from seven International Cycling Union (UCI) and Damsgaard out-of-competition tests are now posted on www.livestrong.com .


Balance at BikeRadar.com.

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by BNA » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:15 pm

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Postby sogood » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:15 pm

Yawn... LA would have posted a concurrent news release indicating his withdraw from further racing if there were anything problematic. And let's wait for the hundreds and thousands of armchair haematological experts to show up on forums... :roll:
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Postby toolonglegs » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:21 pm

Got to wonder why he bothers... :?
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Postby sogood » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:23 pm

He basically can't win. Those sceptics will always be sceptics.
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Postby Aushiker » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:29 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Got to wonder why he bothers... :?


Because of the endless substantiated claims otherwise. Have you read his autobiographies? He wanted his results published early in the decade due to the actions of French courts to discredit him. An action which they eventually dropped as they didn't have any evidence despite retesting all his samples.

I guess he is over all the allegations ... all the totally unsubstantiated allegations as no one to my knowledge has ever come close to proving otherwise despite the extensive testing. Funny that.

Now maybe that is the boring part ... the endless wannabees trying to rubbish him. Maybe they need to do as much then they might have something of value to contribute. What do you think?

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Postby toolonglegs » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:26 pm

Like I said....people already have made up their minds...so why does he bother.
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Postby Aushiker » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:18 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Like I said....people already have made up their minds...so why does he bother.


Well I did put up one suggestion .... Maybe it is time for put up or shut up?

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Postby toolonglegs » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:54 pm

:D
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Postby Aushiker » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:10 am

toolonglegs wrote:but I am intitled to my opinion so why should I shut up?.


Did I say you should shut up? I thought I asked a general question, not make a specific suggestion. Maybe I wasn't clear there. Sorry if I wasn't.

You know, at least Lance is putting out the evidence to be judged. Where is the evidence from the doubters?

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Postby Mulger bill » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:14 am

I'm with Toolong, I hope to Jeebers LA's clean, but yer gotta wonder...

If we had evidence we wouldn't be doubters would we :wink:

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Postby Aushiker » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:20 am

Mulger bill wrote:If we had evidence we wouldn't be doubters would we :wink:

Shaun


Thankfully we have judicial system that don't work your way don't you think ... I bet my last dollar you would be pretty gratefully for that evidence if your arse was on the line .... or would you prefer to thrown in the slammer because of "doubt"? :wink:

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Postby toolonglegs » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:29 am

:D
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Postby sogood » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:39 am

Aushiker wrote:You know, at least Lance is putting out the evidence to be judged. Where is the evidence from the doubters?

And those evidence are only as good as the timing of the samples and the quality of the lab work. There's plenty of fudge factors possible in there.

I am not saying he is fudging it. But for the public to think that some published numbers that require expert knowledge to interpret is sufficient evidence, I say it's very naive. The whole show is more of a PR exercise than anything else.
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Postby RICHARDH » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:14 am

Hes dumped Catlin so my guess is Lance wants shut up :wink:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2009/feb09/feb12news2
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Postby sogood » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:38 am

RICHARDH wrote:Hes dumped Catlin so my guess is Lance wants shut up :wink:

Or expenditure cut back in bad economics times.

Seriously, it only take one good screening program to keep someone honest. And the repeated needle jabs are just a waste of time. The other issue is, 10-20ml of blood per sample, it can add up pretty quickly in terms of total blood loss. It's not uncommon in hospitals that patients can become anaemic as a result of regular blood tests. Getting a spate of random drug tests at the start of a tour wouldn't do any good to his chances, whilst others are infusing blood. :lol:
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Postby Ant. » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:08 pm

toolonglegs wrote:I am glad that they are finally catching everyone.But I love everything about it...drugs or not.But from now on I won't answer any posts on doping...It justs winds me up too much and I can do with out that! :wink:

Maybe we should all have a paragraph or two to talk about our doping views in our profile, because I too try to stay out of it because it winds me up. I'm on the 'Lance is clean' side of the fence though :)

Doping goes on in every endurance sport... it's a real shame that no other sport except cycling has taken such a strong stance to catch dopers, so as long as that remains to be, it's viewed as the doping sport, when in actual fact it should be the dope busters, or something with an equally cheesy name.

I'm not sure what else can be done... if you increase the penalties (which I'd be in favour of), you'd damn well better make sure you don't get any false positive results. I don't mind cynics and skeptics, but it's a shame they can't believe in miracles, but honestly, I can't blame them.
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Postby RICHARDH » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:14 pm

And thats exactly what the line from the Lance camp will be but the fact is Lance really dropped the ball on this one. At best he jumped it to something without doing the necessary checking to see if it could be done (this from the man who weighs hes food to make sure he doesnt have a gram too many). Worst case he made grandiose statement for PR effect then dropped it when he thought it would least noticed.
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Postby martinjs » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:05 pm

4 points

1st: Innocent until proven guilty! (Well at least I hope so)

2nd: He didn't win every event he entered and said in he's book he didn't always do well in flat events.

3rd: Again from he;s book, he's training was squarely aimed at the TDF and consisted of riding up and down Mountains all day long.

4th: See first point. :lol:
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Postby RICHARDH » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:24 pm

1st: Innocent until proven guilty! (Well at least I hope so)


Yet most people think Ulrich cheated and he didnt fail any tests? doesnt make it right but theres enough there to make people wonder and certainly this little Catlin episode doesnt help his case much.

He didn't win every event he entered and said in he's book he didn't always do well in flat events.


Very true but that doesnt mean much seeing as the race he did win is the biggest on the calendar, besides the fact that doesnt prove anything really :) (smiley just so you know im not having a go just dicussing the point dont want a flame war )

Again from he;s book, he's training was squarely aimed at the TDF and consisted of riding up and down Mountains all day long.


While Armstrong perfected the ride for 3 weeks in July training regime he wasnt the only one doing it and certainly by the time he had one a couple of TdF the rest were doing the same. This is one of the things i really dont like about the way cycling has gone its become to focused on one event when there are some really good one day, stage races, and GTs race aswell.
Ive never said that Im certain Armstrong doped because the fact is I dont know but i do find somethings very suspicous and do have doubts, things like this certainly dont help.
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Postby sogood » Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:04 pm

martinjs wrote:4 points

1st: Innocent until proven guilty! (Well at least I hope so)

2nd: He didn't win every event he entered and said in he's book he didn't always do well in flat events.

3rd: Again from he;s book, he's training was squarely aimed at the TDF and consisted of riding up and down Mountains all day long.

4th: See first point. :lol:

Talk about being a "Point Whore", forcing a point when there isn't a 4th point! :P

But there are some good counter arguments.

1) Test technology and infrastructure was so poor that it was easy to escape out of it.

2) When there are so many dopers around him in that era, not winning everything seemed to be pretty normal.

3) Riding up and down the mountain does not guarantee a win, let alone 7 wins. He had to be good genetically, trained well, lucky and have numerous other factors come together to earn those 7 consecutive titles. And with so many of his mules being busted, tainting by association is not unexpected.
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Postby Tale » Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:56 pm

Vast amounts of money are put into cancer research because of this guy. He is heavying politicians to spend on cancer science, or he won't ride in their local protour event. For as long as this is the case, his comeback is a force for good.

His autobiography is strongly against performance enhancing drugs. Testing agrees with his autobiography. Genuine, near-death cancer entirely changed his body, whether or not performance enhancing drugs have been involved since. And if he was on EPO, he still beat everyone who was on EPO.

Be as sceptical as you want. But in my book, he is innocent until proven guilty. Also, he said hello to me in Adelaide, so I am just a mindless zombie.
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Postby sogood » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:14 pm

Quite honestly, I don't really care whether he doped back in 2000 or not. Given that doping was so wide spread and that his competitors were all pretty much on dope, good for him for being the best amongst all the "dopers". And given the fact that there's nothing that stuck on him, there's even less basis to discredit him.

But still, I keep an open mind and watch these arguments grow longer and longer. :lol:
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Postby Mulger bill » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:58 pm

As I was saying before being selectively quoted...

I pray to all Deities that Lance is and was clean, I seriously admire the blokes' efforts just to beat the big C, let alone wear yellow seven times straight.

Thing is, having absolutely everything run perfectly over a specific twentyone days of a year for seven years straight is either miraculous or dodgy, there can be no middle ground. Most of us would indeed have needed a pathologist with a heavy microbiology background to interpret the figures from Lances very own website.

Knowing that dopers have ridden at this and other races and not been busted until later is what makes me wonder. Were there evidence of Lance doping, I would not be wondering, I would be sure that pro cycling is dead in its current form.

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Postby toolonglegs » Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:41 am

:D
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Postby sogood » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:37 am

Mulger bill wrote:Knowing that dopers have ridden at this and other races and not been busted until later is what makes me wonder. Were there evidence of Lance doping, I would not be wondering, I would be sure that pro cycling is dead in its current form.

There's questions on EPO use early in his career, before EPO assays were developed for dope screening in 2001.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_arms ... f_drug_use
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