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Ivan Basso

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:27 am
by AUbicycles
Just coming in on the news... Ivan Basso (winner of last years Giro d'Italia) has admitted to the Italian Olympic Committee that he was involved in the blood doping scandel in which blood bags from prominent professional cyclists were found in the Laboratory of Spanish doctor Eufemiano Fuentes.

Jan Ulrich was also discussed heavily in this forum in the past, apparently new evidence against him is coming shortly from Switzerland. Quoted in European news is that up to 100 riders who would normally participate in the 2007 Tour de France have patient records with the Spanish doctor. Based upon what happens next with Basso and forthcoming evidence, the Tour de France could run an entirely different field of riders than expected.

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:12 am
by Mulger bill
Damn idiots!

The sport does not need this again. :evil:

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:47 am
by gdl_gdl
"the Tour de France could run an entirely different field of riders than expected."

This is looking serious, what's everybody doing in July? :wink:

I can hear the Phil Liggett commentary now "We have a cyclist with a trailer entering the mountains!" (Followed by a bunch of riders on fixies!)

Cheers,

Gary

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:57 am
by Halfanewb
gdl_gdl wrote:
I can hear the Phil Liggett commentary now "We have a cyclist with a trailer entering the mountains!" (Followed by a bunch of riders on fixies!)
:lol:

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:00 am
by gururug
I think cycling is a lot like swimming in many ways. Heaps of training, little separates the good from the great. People don;t stay at the top for long. I don;t want to justify what cheaters have done but I can understand why they do it.

Especially those who rise to fame off their own bat, then their form slides. THe pressure of the media and their fans must be enourmouse. Everyone imagins that they are that person at their peak, all the time.

I feel sorry for them. Maybe there should be another grade for them. i.e.;

D Grade
C Grade
B Grade
A Grade
Elite Cyclists
Elite Cyclists on dope

Then it could be out in the open and they can race against other dopers.

Spare a thought for them and their families.

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:33 am
by tuco
gururug wrote: . . . Everyone imagines that they are that person at their peak, all the time.

Well maybe those who don't understand training and peaking for events.

gururug wrote:Maybe there should be another grade for them. i.e.;

D Grade
C Grade
B Grade
A Grade
Elite Cyclists
Elite Cyclists on dope


Just change the last category to 'Dope'.

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:02 am
by MichaelB
Speaking of TdF, what is the latest with Floyd Landis - has he been done for good, or is it still in the courts ?

Either way, good fodder for the papers....

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:41 pm
by pospete
Yes it's all very sad, not that I've ever taken drugs of course well not those ones, then again I was'nt so much a proffesional cyclist as a proffesional party animal.
It is sad but I think most of the time the dope takers think they'll get away with it and upto now many of them have. I guess now testing will become alot stricter and less open to tampering. At the end of the day it should be fair to everyone.

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:40 pm
by Halfanewb
I saw a snippet on the news tonight, it was then that i understood the term blood doping properly. Seems that athletes are having their blood taken and stored for when a major event comes up then have it pumped back into their bodies to increase the total amount of blood improving oxygen uptake and delivery and hence performance.

At first i thought how are they going to be able to detect that! but then all that extra blood must increase blood pressure so any sharp increase above normal levels would register as an anomaly, i wonder if it was whole blood or processed blood with a high red blood cell count.

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:18 pm
by Mulger bill
AFAIK, they used concentrated red cells, it boosts the haematocrit like a dose of EPO. It's been used in endurance sports for years.

Does use of ordinary painkillers during an event have a performance enhancing effect?

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:33 pm
by Bnej
Mulger bill wrote:Does use of ordinary painkillers during an event have a performance enhancing effect?


Asprin and Ibuprofen drop your blood pressure (they put me to sleep) so I can't think they'd do you much good. Can also upset your stomach.

Don't know about others.

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:41 pm
by Noids
Using an autogenous (blood from your own body) transfusion is definitely hard to prove definitively, which is why they do it I guess. Under stress these extra cells will last as little as 3 days in some cases, so if a test returned a higher than normal haematocrit and thus suspicion of blood doping, monitoring of it over the next few days could give a further indication if it declined rapidly. Saying that, I am not sure that there is any definitive testing for this and that evidence of these transfusions taking place is required generally.

Ordinary pain killers such as panadol or aspirin (or most non-steroidal anti-inflammatories) are not prohibited, nor is codeine. Stronger opioid pain killers are prohibited however, as are cortisone based anti-inflammatories administered systemically.

Cheers ; )

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:42 pm
by Mulger bill
I'm thinking more of the needle into the crook back or dicky knee type.

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:42 pm
by Mr888
Imanewbie wrote:I saw a snippet on the news tonight, it was then that i understood the term blood doping properly. Seems that athletes are having their blood taken and stored for when a major event comes up then have it pumped back into their bodies to increase the total amount of blood improving oxygen uptake and delivery and hence performance.

At first i thought how are they going to be able to detect that! but then all that extra blood must increase blood pressure so any sharp increase above normal levels would register as an anomaly, i wonder if it was whole blood or processed blood with a high red blood cell count.


Wow! :shock: Thanks for highlighting that. I didn't know that that was possible. I'm tempted to go to the blood bank now...to make a withdrawal...is that allowed??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:44 pm
by sogood
MichaelB wrote:Speaking of TdF, what is the latest with Floyd Landis - has he been done for good, or is it still in the courts ?

Why do you want to know? I couldn't care less. The more spin doctoring he use for his community based defence, the more I think he is guilty. And given it's in the US court system, let's just say it'll be a while...

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:10 pm
by bigbuzz73
Hi Guys,
Like everything, anabolic steroid use has it's advantages...... and I think the guys on it have a HUGE advantage!
No, not as a performance enhancer, but because it shrivels their "family jewels" so much that they can get much more comfortable in the saddle with so little to get in the way! :twisted: Hehehe!!
Wayne

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:23 pm
by heavymetal
gdl_gdl wrote:I can hear the Phil Liggett commentary now "We have a cyclist with a trailer entering the mountains!" (Followed by a bunch of riders on fixies!)


Followed by another cyclist with a trailer and 4 panniers. And on the downhill a peloton of fully loaded touring bikes in the lead as gravity takes over. :D

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:37 pm
by europa
heavymetal wrote:
gdl_gdl wrote:I can hear the Phil Liggett commentary now "We have a cyclist with a trailer entering the mountains!" (Followed by a bunch of riders on fixies!)


Followed by another cyclist with a trailer and 4 panniers. And on the downhill a peloton of fully loaded touring bikes in the lead as gravity takes over. :D


Ignore Kev, he's just reliving his sanity :roll:

Richard

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:42 pm
by heavymetal
I was watching the cycling in Belgium on Sunday where all those carbon fibre bikes with extremely narrow tyres were going down a 23% incline on cobblestones and they had some serious accidents.

Also their water bottles all came out on the bumps.

I think a touring bike would be better in this situation. The water bottles have velcro to stop them flying out, the tyres are wider, and the frame has bit of flex for bumpy roads :D

Long live the peloton of loaded touring bikes :lol:

As the men in white coats and rubber lined truck drag me away............

Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:40 am
by Noids
Mulger bill wrote:I'm thinking more of the needle into the crook back or dicky knee type.


Yeah they tend to be cortisone shots which are allowed if they are used in a specific area like that.

Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 4:55 am
by AUbicycles
I didn't actually realise that blood doping was illegal until the raid in Spain, I thought is was common practice for athletes. The problem with sport and legal and illegal performance enhancement is that a sportperson works primarily for a set goal and to acheive this goal will take all legal measures. This makes sense as well however the enticement of non-legal and new performance enhancing methods is significant when you don't know what your competitors are doing or how many seconds you actually need to win.

There are a lot of grey areas regarding testing for blood doping as many atheletes have proven in the past that even a simple asprin can affect a read-out and therefor make the actual test results unclear.

I often think about what new methods are being developed and being used by professional athletes that are not yet able to be tested.

Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:29 am
by Mulger bill
The dopers will always be one step ahead of the testers, there's too much money at stake for them not to.

Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:56 am
by Halfanewb
Mulger bill wrote:AFAIK, they used concentrated red cells, it boosts the haematocrit like a dose of EPO. It's been used in endurance sports for years.

Does use of ordinary painkillers during an event have a performance enhancing effect?


I'm not sure about elite athletes but after seeing the results of a study that looked into the benefits of taking 1 asprin daily i have started this in addition to the omega3 and B group supplement. The effects of the asprin are not that noticeable but with the omega3 supplement i could feel some benefits, sounds weird i know but i felt fitter after a week. Both the asprin and the omega3 have effects on the blood, the asprin thins it and the omega3 reduces its stickiness. When i'm cycling up hills i definitely notice the difference, the blood doesn't pound away like it used to, though i am sure my increasing fitness plays a part in this.