Stage 18

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Stage 18

Postby europa » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:47 pm

Yet another rider brought down by a dog - Sandy Casar who's in the breakaway. Massive hole in his rump - that's going to hurt later. There are some bloody silly dog owners in this world ... not to mention damned stupid dogs - mine has as much road sense as a tadpole :roll:

Breakway! Yay! Go Boogerd - the man rode his heart out for a cheat, I'd like to see him rewarded with some personal glory.

Gap up to 20 mins or so :shock: My only regret is that Jens Voigt (an honourary aussie if ever there was one) isn't in it.

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by BNA » Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:11 am

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Postby Hotdog » Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:11 am

Yep, it would be great if Boogerd got the stage win as consolation for wasting the last couple of weeks working so hard for Rasmussen. Even if he doesn't win he might end up in the top ten of the GC after this. Euskatel Euskadi have moved to the front of the peloton to up the pace and prevent that though.

Sandy Casar is looking pretty bashed up, hope it doesn't effect him too badly. The red raw arse cheek sticking out the hole in his shorts is one thing, but the swollen elbow might be more serious.
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Postby europa » Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:30 am

I managed to stay away until they were inside the 20km mark. After that, apparently someone got the yellow. **sigh** Guess I'll have to look up Velonews.

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Postby AUbicycles » Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:30 am

The truth is... I have been coming to these forums for most of the results and as we are coming to the end and posting the current overall standings for the top contenders from letour.fr:

Standing - Rider - Rider number bib - Team - Time - Gaps

1. CONTADOR Alberto 112 DISCOVERY CHANNEL TEAM 87h 09' 18"
2. EVANS Cadel 41 PREDICTOR - LOTTO 87h 09' 41" + 00' 23"
3. LEIPHEIMER Levi 111 DISCOVERY CHANNEL TEAM 87h 09' 49" + 00' 31"
4. SASTRE Carlos 31 TEAM CSC 87h 16' 26" + 07' 08"
5. ZUBELDIA Haimar 71 EUSKALTEL - EUSKADI 87h 17' 35" + 08' 17"
6. VALVERDE Alejandro 18 CAISSE D’EPARGNE 87h 20' 55" + 11' 37"
7. KIRCHEN Kim 27 T-MOBILE TEAM 87h 21' 36" + 12' 18"
8. POPOVYCH Yaroslav 118 DISCOVERY CHANNEL TEAM 87h 21' 48" + 12' 30"
9. ASTARLOZA Mikel 73 EUSKALTEL - EUSKADI 87h 23' 32" + 14' 14"
10. PEREIRO SIO Oscar 11 CAISSE D’EPARGNE 87h 23' 43" + 14' 25"
11. SOLER HERNANDEZ Juan Mauricio 219 BARLOWORLD 87h 25' 59" + 16' 41"
12. BOOGERD Michael 52 RABOBANK 87h 30' 23" + 21' 05"
13. ARROYO David 12 CAISSE D’EPARGNE 87h 31' 07" + 21' 49"
14. KARPETS Vladimir 15 CAISSE D’EPARGNE 87h 33' 23" + 24' 05"
15. HORNER Christopher 44 PREDICTOR - LOTTO 87h 34' 27" + 25' 09"


The other Australian rider currently in the tour (Position 94) is:
Simon Gerrans of AG2R PREVOYANCE.


Aussies who have withdrawn are:
Brett Lancaster of MILRAM (stage 5)
Michael Rogers of T-MOBILE (stage 8)
Stuart O'Grady of CSC (stage 8)
Robbie McEwen of PREDICTOR - LOTTO (stage 8)


I am crossing my fingers for the the aussie kid who used to ride Mountain Bikes. Go Cadel!!
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Postby mikesbytes » Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:11 am

So Cadel needs to get a break on the last leg to win.

Does Leipheimer follow team orders ?
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Postby europa » Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:41 am

We'd better contact the Labrador Owners Club in France and ask them all to take their dogs to the tour :wink:

Does anyone have a clear answer on what time bonuses are on offer? I'm pretty sure there are some at the finish line, but what about intermediate sprints ... or do they only offer points?

This could be a cruise to the line (which is what I suspect) or it could be a real battle.

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Postby mikesbytes » Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:51 am

I was about to ask the same question, what are the time bonus's?
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Postby europa » Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:12 am

AUbicycles wrote:1. CONTADOR Alberto 112 DISCOVERY CHANNEL TEAM 87h 09' 18"
2. EVANS Cadel 41 PREDICTOR - LOTTO 87h 09' 41" + 00' 23"
3. LEIPHEIMER Levi 111 DISCOVERY CHANNEL TEAM 87h 09' 49" + 00' 31"
4. SASTRE Carlos 31 TEAM CSC 87h 16' 26" + 07' 08"
5. ZUBELDIA Haimar 71 EUSKALTEL - EUSKADI 87h 17' 35" + 08' 17"
6. VALVERDE Alejandro 18 CAISSE D’EPARGNE 87h 20' 55" + 11' 37"
7. KIRCHEN Kim 27 T-MOBILE TEAM 87h 21' 36" + 12' 18"
8. POPOVYCH Yaroslav 118 DISCOVERY CHANNEL TEAM 87h 21' 48" + 12' 30"
9. ASTARLOZA Mikel 73 EUSKALTEL - EUSKADI 87h 23' 32" + 14' 14"
10. PEREIRO SIO Oscar 11 CAISSE D’EPARGNE 87h 23' 43" + 14' 25"
11. SOLER HERNANDEZ Juan Mauricio 219 BARLOWORLD 87h 25' 59" + 16' 41"
12. BOOGERD Michael 52 RABOBANK 87h 30' 23" + 21' 05"
13. ARROYO David 12 CAISSE D’EPARGNE 87h 31' 07" + 21' 49"
14. KARPETS Vladimir 15 CAISSE D’EPARGNE 87h 33' 23" + 24' 05"
15. HORNER Christopher 44 PREDICTOR - LOTTO 87h 34' 27" + 25' 09"


Gawd, the peleton is full of fine, anglo-saxon names isn't it :roll: It's like looking at the socceroos squad.

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Postby nimm » Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:29 am

I think 20s for a stage win, so cadel really has to be in a breakaway to win it.
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Postby sogood » Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:36 am

nimm wrote:I think 20s for a stage win, so cadel really has to be in a breakaway to win it.

It's a risk isn't it. If the breakaway doesn't work, he'll be spent and get swamped by the peloton.
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Postby moosterbounce » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:20 pm

There isn't usually a breakaway on the last day though. In fact, it has only happened once before that someone attacked the yellow jersey on the final day...unspoken rule.

Evans has a better sprint than Levi so who knows if he will bother attacking...I reckon Cadel will be wearing him like a glove. 2nd will be more important to hold onto than to go for yellow imo.

Get the matchsticks out for tonight though...it will be a great watch.
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Postby Mulger bill » Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:50 pm

moosterbounce wrote:There isn't usually a breakaway on the last day though. In fact, it has only happened once before that someone attacked the yellow jersey on the final day...unspoken rule.

Moo


I asked that in another thread, Thanks :)

Now, can anybody say why? I'd love to see the whole three weeks riding decided in a final sprint on the last stage.

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Postby Aushiker » Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:42 pm

moosterbounce wrote:There isn't usually a breakaway on the last day though. In fact, it has only happened once before that someone attacked the yellow jersey on the final day...unspoken rule.

Which just enhances the Tour de Farce name tag. A race when you are not having a race.

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Postby sogood » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:50 pm

moosterbounce wrote:Evans has a better sprint than Levi so who knows if he will bother attacking...I reckon Cadel will be wearing him like a glove. 2nd will be more important to hold onto than to go for yellow imo.

Why not go for yellow? He definitely need to breakaway to gain that 23s.
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Postby mikesbytes » Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:14 pm

About 92 hours of riding and you loose by a few seconds
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Postby europa » Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:31 pm

Cadel is facing a few things.

The first is the tradition of not attacking the Yellow Jersey on the last day.

The second is that he can't rely on time bonuses, even if there were enough, because the sprinters will be fighting for glory ... and will get the bonuses.

Third, he needs a sizeable breakaway. Breakaway's tend not to succeed on the Champs D'unspellable' because every team wants to win that stage.

Fourth, he'll be chased down by Disco which would have to be the strongest chase down team there at the moment, regardless of him finding an opportunity to break away.

Fifth, thanks to the tradition of not attacking the yellow, he'll be chased down by every other team.

Frankly, he's got no chance and to attempt it probably won't help his reputation any.

Having said that, I hope he gets that opportunity and has a shot at it.

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Postby moosterbounce » Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:50 pm

Don't forget that there are 7 ot 8 laps of the Champs-Elysees so not exactly breakaway kinda stuff despite tradition. These laps get faster and faster until the sprinters go crazy at the end.

Speaking of tradition, in the last 10 years, Australian sprinters have finished in the top 3 on the C-E 9 times!! These have included Robbie McEwen (why on earth did he call his son Ewen :? ), Baden Cooke (who has also won the green jersey), Henk Vogels, Stuart O'Grady, and Brad McGee.

Looks like we like going fast :D
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Postby Aushiker » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:21 am

europa wrote:The first is the tradition of not attacking the Yellow Jersey on the last day.

And this is what I don't understand and hence my Tour de Farce comment. This is a race no? A race which does not finish until the end of stage 19, no? Yet effectively the race ends at Stage 18?

In other sports this type of behaviour could fall into the "fixing" category.

This type of behaviour combined with the drugs makes you wonder about the whole thing and I can sort of understand some of the comments in letters to the editor I have seen.

Regards
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Postby Bnej » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:58 am

If it was just Evans and Contador on the last stage, racing solo, I think Cadel could have taken it.

In reality it would have been Predictor Lotto vs Discovery and everyone else, and they wouldn't have won that. It would have been a huge extra effort for no gain.

It's like the end of the mountain climbs, when one rider has been doing most of the work up the hill, other riders won't try and pass him to take the KoM points and make him work harder.
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Postby moosterbounce » Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:54 pm

Aushiker wrote:
europa wrote:The first is the tradition of not attacking the Yellow Jersey on the last day.

And this is what I don't understand and hence my Tour de Farce comment. This is a race no? A race which does not finish until the end of stage 19, no? Yet effectively the race ends at Stage 18?

In other sports this type of behaviour could fall into the "fixing" category.

This type of behaviour combined with the drugs makes you wonder about the whole thing and I can sort of understand some of the comments in letters to the editor I have seen.

Regards
Andrew


Stage 20 is the last stage...

I like the tradition of the Tour. It has been like that for the last 100-odd years...why make it so cut throat? I think it is a great time for celebration and congratulations. These guys race each other all year, so to have a bit of the last stage (not including the wind up to the final sprint) riding as friends epitomises the cafe or club ride...going back to its roots. And to have the leading team lead the peloton onto the C-E shows respect.

I'm sorry you still see it as the Tour de Farce Andrew, and that this is one of your reasons. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this as to me this one thing that makes the Tour special.

Now I personally don't have a social game - everything I do I compete at (to the point of almost being kicked out as a spectator as I was telling Hubby's team to attack the guy with the knee brace as it was obviously a weak spot :oops: I'm a soccer mum!!). If I were down by 23 seconds over 92 hours of racing, I would be gutted, and can't say I wouldn't have tried...but if I blew up, I would be losing 2nd place...and maybe losing a podium finish.

Is 2nd good enough for Cadel? I don't think he thinks so...he'll return that bit stronger next year. What better motivation could there be for next year?
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Postby europa » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:02 pm

In reality, it's rare that an attack on the yellow is likely to succeed - it's just too difficult to pick up extra time for the simple reason that a top rider attempting such a breakaway will be attacked very quickly by the yellow jersey's team. It's not like a breakaway from someone who is no threat where the peleton will often sit back and just let them run ... and notice how often the peleton dictates how far ahead they get and how long they stay there?

For a GC contender, say second or third place to get away and stay away, they really need to get away in a group of ten or more, a group that will work with them, or charge across the gap between the peleton and such a group. On a flat stage, and that's really all you are going to get heading into Paris, you need a magical rider in exceptional conditions for it to succeed. Especially seeing you won't just be fighting the yellow's team, but the teams of all the sprinters as well - apart from winning the green, there is too much honour to be had with a Champs Elysee win so anyone breaking away is going to be chased by everyone.

The run into Paris has become a chance for the riders to relax and socialise after three weeks of hard racing. Remember, the peleton fragments immediately after the race with many riders racing again the next day or very soon after, but spread all over Europe. Considering that once the peleton reaches the Champs Elysee the race is fought very aggressively, from the entire peleton usually, I don't think we can begrude the riders some 'time off' - it's not as though we're talking and hour and a half of footy or even five days of cricket - we're talking 20 stages of some hours effort each.

But it would be nice to see them trying - maybe more or larger time bonuses along the way?

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Postby Bluerider » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:34 pm

Aushiker wrote:
europa wrote:The first is the tradition of not attacking the Yellow Jersey on the last day.

And this is what I don't understand and hence my Tour de Farce comment. This is a race no? A race which does not finish until the end of stage 19, no? Yet effectively the race ends at Stage 18?

In other sports this type of behaviour could fall into the "fixing" category.

This type of behaviour combined with the drugs makes you wonder about the whole thing and I can sort of understand some of the comments in letters to the editor I have seen.

Regards
Andrew


The race itself is tradition but if I was in second place with a gettable 23sec to make up with the right support I would be talking to my team/teammates the night before on a strattergy to try and win !
Bugger slogging my butt off for so long and on the last day cruise into Paris chatting with my competitors as if its a cruise.

So Andrew I'm with you it's a RACE to the finish....and you wait one day 1 rider will just do that.
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Postby Bnej » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:47 pm

Bluerider wrote:The race itself is tradition but if I was in second place with a gettable 23sec to make up with the right support I would be talking to my team/teammates the night before on a strattergy to try and win !
Bugger slogging my butt off for so long and on the last day cruise into Paris chatting with my competitors as if its a cruise.

So Andrew I'm with you it's a RACE to the finish....and you wait one day 1 rider will just do that.


One rider won't get far ahead before being gobbled up. It's been decided on the last stage before but...

Evans, Contador and Leipheimer all just give each other some respect for what each has achieved. It would have been easier for Leipheimer to get 10 seconds and knock Evans out of 2nd, how would that be?

Bugger slogging your butt off for the whole tour then struggling and suffering to attempt a breakaway that won't succeed on the last day.
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