Floyd at the Cascade Cycle Classic

[toolonglegs]

Still no smokin' gun.

He probably doesn't need a smoking gun anymore.
The federal inquiry involves a panel of Judges (?) in a room with the person being questioned.The person being questioned is in there alone without a lawyer...and lying in these things will possibly mean jail time.It is not really the same as fibbing to WADA etc...some one will tell all especially as it is all confidential.Tyler is about to meet with them...and we know if there is stuff to be told then he knows it and in his state I doubt if he will hold back.
Time will tell.

[shiv]

Let's be honest here, we all know that the vast majority of the peleton was juiced to the gills back then. The time difference is a dead giveaway, better faster technology yet slower speeds. What get me fired up is the way Landis is doing all this. Since he lied so much (even writing a book about it) and swindling a fortune out of the public, he should just bugger off and leave the cycling world in peace. We all know Marco Pantani was taking huge amounts of drugs but never cared or let it distract us from his amazing talent. We know Lance was doped to, but for all that he has done for cycling and cancer, I don't care!

Also, Greg LeMond is always spouting off about Armstrong being a cheat, yet how could his 21 year old mark of 54kph for a tt be nigh untouchable to a machine like Cancellara with far superior technology? I'd be just as sus on him as Lance



End rant.

Maybe they all were juiced up some still are thay get caught sometimes! This still doesn't make it right. Landis has lied and admited it, Lance and any of the others who may or may not have doped are doing just the same cept they are not admiting it. I think the real issue is the time given for a doping offence should be a life ban for cheating like that. Itmakes me angry to see people who if not caught were happy to dope back racing. A life ban would make people think twice and really clean up the greatest sport in the world.

MM

Dont get me wrong, I never said doping was right and I never said I like it. I also hate that certain guys get caught, deny it, then come back 2 years later expecting to be greeted with open arms. What Im saying is if Landis is going to carry on like this after all this time then he should realise he will severely hurt the sport he loves. If he had come clean straight away and fingered Lance back then, Id think differently, but he waits as long as possible then does it. Lance is not a dominant cyclist now, and is more about raising chairty money which is far more then Floyd is doing. Bringing all these people down will ruin a lot more then is worth it for some simple revenge.

So basically I just really dont like the timing and way this has been done. Catch a drug cheat whilst they are competing, and by all means hit them hard with competition and monetary penalties. But waiting so long for no real reason but to clear his conscience isnt helpful. I just hope at the end of all this, whatever happens to the others, landis does a long stretch for massive public fraud

[AUbicycles]

I get your point there Shiv and while I can't form an opinion on Lance, it makes me wonder.

Yep, Landis is probably bitter and seeking revenge as he feels shafted, however I don't know what good it would do for him to put so much effort into discrediting others if it wasn't true. If he is again telling fibs... what good does it do anyone? He gets no personal gain, and I don't think this 'bad publicity' is good for him. At least that is what gets me thinking.

[jules21]

given how juiced the peloton was during lance's era and how he rode away from those guys at will, i'd be stunned to learn he wasn't also doping.

[The Womble]

Theres shafted and then theres prison. A logical progression?

[sogood]

given how juiced the peloton was during lance's era and how he rode away from those guys at will, i'd be stunned to learn he wasn't also doping.

If everyone's juiced up, then that's a level playing field. Anyone hunting Merckx for dope usage? I wouldn't be surprised if it goes all the way back if that's the case.

[jules21]

If everyone's juiced up, then that's a level playing field. Anyone hunting Merckx for dope usage? I wouldn't be surprised if it goes all the way back if that's the case.

i'm no expert, but from what i can gather, the old dopers in Merckx's era were just mucking around. it wasn't until EPO that you could turn a 'hanger on' into a Tour contender. LeMond wrote an article in which he recalled how he just went backwards in the peloton, relative to others he used to beat, coinciding with the arrival of EPO.

[toolonglegs]

Doping wasn't illegal till when?...early 60's?.Eddy was done for a few things wasn't he?.But I agree that it didn't really have a huge affect until the drugs that improved oxygen carrying capacities were introduced.
But even in the 50's and earlier it was not a level playing field...the riders with the most money bought the best drugs...later on the riders with the best doctors got the best results.
Dr Ferrari was rumored to take 10-20% of an athletes income to "prepare" them...he had 50 or more riders on his books in the early 90's.

"we are not sportsmen...we are professionals"...Rudi Altig.

Apparently Dr Ferrari is putting the record straight...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/open-le ... le-ferrari

[gdt]

Doping wasn't illegal till when?...early 60's?

There's "illegal" and there's "we care enough to enforce it". I'd say that kicked in across all sports around the mid-1980s, partly from sponsor pressure, partly from West-East rivalry and a realisation that Eastern athletes were doped (although at the time we had no idea just how doped up they were), partly the movement of anabolic steroids out of the ghetto of weightlifting, and partly because sports medicine kept uncovering ugly side effects of the newer drugs and put the hard word to the rules committees to get their act together with enforceable rules before we lost a generation of athletes to exotic and untreatable complaints.

I wasn't following cycling at the time (I was a swimmer in the 1980s, and in biomechanics after that) but for cycling the Festina Affair marks the point where doping moved from "a problem" to "unacceptable". All those athletes refusing to race unless they were allowed to dope (to summarise their position bluntly). It was a lesson to sponsors too -- Festina paid good money to sponsor that team, and then had their brand trashed because of doping. I remember a swimming sponsor asking some very pointed questions from that event onwards, and seeing a comprehensive testing programme as a way to safeguard their brand.

If everyone's juiced up, then that's a level playing field.

A "level playing field" misses the sponsors' point of view. They aren't going to put money into a sport that doesn't enhance their brand. Even pharmaceutical concerns don't associate their brands with needles, injections and the like -- because people wince at the very thought. The side effects of allowed doping scare the living daylights out of sponsors. No company wants their Marlboro Man to have lung cancer. No cycling sponsor is going to want their 25-year old pinup turning into a 35-year old with osteoarthritis so bad they need a walking frame.

No sane parent is going to allow their child to become an athlete in a legalised doping world. Just look at what has happened in the AFL with the legalisation of caffeine. We're not talking medical-supervision, all-care-taken doping here. We're talking pretty girls holding cups of capsules saying "take one boys". Side effects were inevitable. Caffeine is a toy drug -- just imagine for a moment that girl dishing out anabolic steroids and that will be the reality of legalised doping.

An attraction of sport which appeals to government is the promotion of a health and fitness. That's tautly stretched today -- as you can see from recent government inquiries recommending less funding for elite sport and more for general fitness. The nexus would totally snap if sports allowed doping. In fact, elite sport and government would move to a more confrontational stance as role model athletes took MDMA whilst the government was trying to minimise its use in the wider community.

[AUbicycles]

There's "illegal" and there's "we care enough to enforce it".

And there is also "What should be illegal". All of the anti-doping bodies still play catch-up - and it is not like the industry around performance enhancing drugs / techniques is sharing all they know. So what may be technically legal today (because it is unknown), may be illegal tomorrow.

[Fletcher]

Also, Greg LeMond is always spouting off about Armstrong being a cheat, yet how could his 21 year old mark of 54kph for a tt be nigh untouchable to a machine like Cancellara with far superior technology?

Huh?

[The Womble]

You leave Greg alone! Just because he had legs like an Ipswich prostitute and could break the sound barrier uphill, theres no evidence to suggest nothing or that!

[MichaelB]

Back OT re Floyd's performances ;

3rd Stage : 125th (AT) 06:18 (135km mountain top finish) - now 81st (AT) 18:17
4th Stage : 11th (AT) 00:40 (75 min Crit) - now 74th (AT) 18:36
5th Stage : DNS (134km 5 lap ride)

Top effort Floyd - couldn't even finish a Elite Mens race in the Good ol USA .....

BTW, Fly V Aust did well with a couple of Stage wins with Ben Day I think, and 2nd overall

[jules21]

Also, Greg LeMond is always spouting off about Armstrong being a cheat, yet how could his 21 year old mark of 54kph for a tt be nigh untouchable to a machine like Cancellara with far superior technology?

Huh?

that TT was short and downhill

[emu legs]

Floyd rocking up to race in that get-up was in my eyes merely looking for maximum exposure using the old more is less analogy,and I feel the financial/emotional cost to Landis is forcing him to do "Whatever It Takes" to recoup $ and support from the public and Media.Having said that my wife is a Lance hater and is convinced he is both a cheat and Villain.

Myself being a Lance worshipper I hope for both cyclings sake and Lances he is clean or nothing from his past history brings him down.
Landis is looking more like the sort of guy that just happens to be standing outside of Lances house with a loaded gun one day !!

[The Womble]

Id say dont get your hopes up. For it to get this far means theyve spent a few million already

[toolonglegs]

Money is no object in this investigation...I have no doubt if there is dirt they will find it.
Anyone remember Balco!.

[shiv]

This is definately gonna get messy, and in the end I think there will be a few fallen heroes. Regarding Balco as TLL said, Marion Jones wasTHE american athletics darling, yet went down very very hard. Unless Lance has his tracks covered very very well, and Tyler is still a good mate, he will fall.

But since I like Lance and hate Landis, I hope to god that the latter does a decent stretch for defrauding the public

[jules21]

i also suspect there will be some big revelations stemming from this investigation. lance is arguably the most popular athlete in the US, if not the world and any fall from grace will hit the ground with a giant thud.

[AUbicycles]

But hasn't lance worked himself into such a position now that should he be exposed, it would just be a small downer - like celebrities have downers and uppers all the time

[The Womble]

But hes robbed a select group of some of the worlds most elite athletes of the ultimate prize in their profession, and cheated millions of fans in the single greatest spectator event in sport (tdf) for many years if found guilty of doping. And the Europeans probably regard cycling second only to soccer.

[sogood]

But hasn't lance worked himself into such a position now that should he be exposed, it would just be a small downer - like celebrities have downers and uppers all the time

Thinking of Tiger Wood?

[shiv]

But hes robbed a select group of some of the worlds most elite athletes of the ultimate prize in their profession, and cheated millions of fans in the single greatest spectator event in sport (tdf) for many years if found guilty of doping. And the Europeans probably regard cycling second only to soccer.

Ok, so Lance gets done and the poor guy behind him that worked his ass off for second gets elevated. Except that (without checking as Im lazy this morning) pretty much all runners up to him have been done for doping too. As its been said before, he was the fastest in a field of dopers.


That might work in our favour though, Stewie might end up with the yellow jersey as the first clean rider over the line!

[jules21]

But hasn't lance worked himself into such a position now that should he be exposed, it would just be a small downer - like celebrities have downers and uppers all the time

i think it would be disastrous for him if he was exposed as a doper. i reckon his credibility would be zero after that, particularly after all his posturing about cancer and clean living.

[brentono]

Doping wasn't illegal till when?...early 60's?.Eddy was done for a few things wasn't he?.But I agree that it didn't really have a huge affect until the drugs that improved oxygen carrying capacities were introduced.
But even in the 50's and earlier it was not a level playing field...the riders with the most money bought the best drugs...later on the riders with the best doctors got the best results.
Dr Ferrari was rumored to take 10-20% of an athletes income to "prepare" them...he had 50 or more riders on his books in the early 90's.

"we are not sportsmen...we are professionals"...Rudi Altig.

Apparently Dr Ferrari is putting the record straight...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/open-le ... le-ferrari

the riders with the most money bought the best drugs

Amusing, while I was in Belgium, during the 70's, I observed much drug-taking (I didn't get involved, personally)
and as it was freely available at any Chemist (inexpensive), you would see crew from many counties (in Team gear) openly
buying, and at that stage there was limited testing. It was mostly stimulants (benzedrine etc) and had devestating longterm
effects, with regular use. On the 6-Day circuit, and in the Tours, it was almost compulsory, to stay in the Team (so I was informed).
And from many of the Belgians (not cyclists), I mixed with in Ghent, who worked 2 shift jobs, they were all on the same drugs, too,
just to keep up the pace of the work, it was common-place.
What was your experience like, during your cycling competitions in Europe?
You have a more recent take on it, being there?
My point is that in the 60's and 70's sports/any drugs were not expensive and readily available, to anyone. FME.
Cheers,
BrentonO