Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby jules21 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:11 pm

strict liability, as we've discussed in another thread on this forum, doesn't mean automatic guilt. it's a presumption of guilt, with the onus on the defendant to show that they are innocent. however, based on the evidence that's been made public to date, it's hard to see how contador could have done that - he's presented this arbitrary story about tainted meat, apparently without a shred of supporting evidence.
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by BNA » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:58 pm

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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby brentono » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:58 pm

The concept of strict liability is poorly understood.
It can mean anything from absolute liability to little more than a reversed burden of proof.
In some instances where strict liability theoretically applies contributory negligence is also an issue.
In other areas it is not.

... straight from Australian Legal text.

Relating to "strict liability" IMO, the WADA has prepared a model of anti-doping rules and regulations
tailored to the major groups of Signatories, and the related Sports. But "strict liability" possibly has no
place, till a threshold for all restricted substances is put in place. It seems fairly reasonable.

As I have previously stated-
WADA- And the absence of a threshold for all substances, in the future, will be called into play.

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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby norbs » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:03 pm

Interesting read....

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2011/02 ... t-not.html


I would love to know the reactions in France. Mr Long legs?
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby Aushiker » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:26 pm



Hi

Thanks for sharing. That is an interesting read indeed as are the comments. The comments about the Spanish PM are interesting ... really casts doubts on the role he has played.

Regards
Andrew
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:24 pm

Haven't seen much comment here yet.
I can see a problem with the TDF thou...if he is allowed to ride legally,I can't see them wanting him there if he is given a ban a few months later.
Valverde all over again.
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby jules21 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:29 pm

does anyone know if the UCI appeals, does that make him provisionally suspended again, or is he free to race until the appeal outcome is established?
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby cpical » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:49 pm

Boring... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby hannos » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:50 pm

Why can't the UCI just take a look at the evidence (or lack thereof) and make their own decision?
So what if the Spanish let him off? The UCI are still the world governing body aren't they?
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:54 pm

hannos wrote:Why can't the UCI just take a look at the evidence (or lack thereof) and make their own decision?
So what if the Spanish let him off? The UCI are still the world governing body aren't they?

They can appeal...after the spanish have finished.
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby cpical » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:09 pm

jules21 wrote:does anyone know if the UCI appeals, does that make him provisionally suspended again, or is he free to race until the appeal outcome is established?



Boring! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Seriously, this is a bit over our heads! In 99 (I think) samples from Mr LA turned up positive, but positivexnegative (someone, something) = negative, and positive became negative.
I just don't get it. Ullrich was positive, Pantani was positive, Vinokourov was positive, and many others. Where is all the money, titles,.. they earned? People still flock the routes of the TdF, Vuelta, Giro, TdU,... It is a spectacle, it is business. Artists of all trades have been "relying" on enhancing substances. Climbing the Everest with assistance is "wrong"? Rules for professional sports exist and should be followed. No objection. Same goes for rules when driving a car, building houses, fixing seals on my bath tub,...
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:16 pm

It's all part of the circus...Pistolero has that finger up someone's rear.
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby Chuck » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:09 pm

Political pressure brought to bare, simple. It was predicted by many on here earlier in this thread that the Spanish federation would not suspend him, that has proven out. The only surprise was the announcement that they were considering a one year ban.

So this gets to play out longer to the detriment of cycling :(
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby sogood » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:13 pm

Who thinks pistolero will get jeered at the next race outside Spain?
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby jules21 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:47 pm

sogood wrote:Who thinks pistolero will get jeered at the next race outside Spain?

no matter what the outcome, his credibility is shot now. unless.. he can reinvent himself and show the public that he is riding for a higher purpose :mrgreen:
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:48 pm

jules21 wrote:
sogood wrote:Who thinks pistolero will get jeered at the next race outside Spain?

no matter what the outcome, his credibility is shot now. unless.. he can reinvent himself and show the public that he is riding for a higher purpose :mrgreen:

With his history I don't think he had that much credibility to start with.
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:20 pm

Fletcher wrote:Imagine the hard time he'll get from the roadside crowds if he's able to jump through enough hoops to ride in the Tour.

What the stylish female TdF fan will be wearing?
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby Chuck » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:53 pm

toolonglegs wrote:With his history I don't think he had that much credibility to start with.


Not many big name GC riders with cred in the last two decades. Even the Schlecks are tainted.
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:58 pm

Chuck wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:With his history I don't think he had that much credibility to start with.


Not many big name GC riders with cred in the last two decades. Even the Schlecks are tainted.


Very tainted...I know I know,poor old Sassi...hardly in his grave and Ricco does that to his family :twisted: .
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Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby sogood » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:35 pm

26 pages. How many more pages can this saga generate before it goes quiet?
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby MichaelB » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:53 am

Some of the comments from the cyclists in Oman (on CN ) were interesting .

Rodriguez (apologies if spelt wrong) of course supported him, and all Vino could say was that's good, as the TdF prizemoney stays with Astana !!!!

It's interesting that he wasn't mentioned in the Volta Algarve rundown.
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby hannos » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:46 am

toolonglegs wrote:
hannos wrote:Why can't the UCI just take a look at the evidence (or lack thereof) and make their own decision?
So what if the Spanish let him off? The UCI are still the world governing body aren't they?

They can appeal...after the spanish have finished.



ok, so what I don't udnerstand is why a world governing body is subject to a local governing body, ie the Spanish?

That like saying the Queen cannot overrule the local courts to me.
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby sogood » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:04 am

hannos wrote:ok, so what I don't udnerstand is why a world governing body is subject to a local governing body, ie the Spanish?
That like saying the Queen cannot overrule the local courts to me.

Because everyone demands and expects independence. This is alike the UN and its limited powers over member states. Without these convoluted arrangements, there wouldn't have been an international body.
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby jules21 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:06 am

the CAS isn't equipped to handle every doping case - they're only there to arbitrate when there is a dispute. the intention is that national federations should get it right and that the UCI/CAS only step in when they screw up. in practice, that happens more often than it should.
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby sogood » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:13 am

jules21 wrote:...the intention is that national federations should get it right and that the UCI/CAS only step in when they screw up. in practice, that happens more often than it should.

No surprise. It's like asking the mum and dad of a family to judge and convict their child for alleged crimes committed in the wider society. Some can, most will become defensive for family honour.
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Re: Alberto Contador tests positive for clenbuterol

Postby MichaelB » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:45 am

He's upset the Spanish meat producers though !!!

Might get lynched with a side of beef next time he back in spain .....
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