2011 Giro

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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby s-s-a » Wed May 11, 2011 10:14 am

Yes sorry you are correct. Casartelli was not wearing a helmet when his head hit a block of stone on the edge of the drop.
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by BNA » Wed May 11, 2011 10:15 am

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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby Becker_11 » Wed May 11, 2011 10:15 am

Lance wining stage 18 of the 1995 tour 3 days after Fabio died. It's only a short clip you see the final few meters, his victory salute then a short interview full of stupid questions.

Lance dedicates his victory to Fabio

Article and photo of the Fabio Casertelli memorial Remembering Fabio Casartelli
Last edited by Becker_11 on Wed May 11, 2011 11:05 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby brentono » Wed May 11, 2011 10:18 am

Stage 4
After the stage there will be no podium ceremonies and other festivities
and all the prize money will go to the family of Wouter Weylandt.
A nice thought and a great tribute from all the riders.
:|
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby sogood » Wed May 11, 2011 10:21 am

familyguy wrote:Magazine graphic shows left pedal striking wall, but probably not the drop to the lower road?

The early report of Wouter falling 20m didn't make sense in view of the video. This present graphic made much more sense, that he tumbled 20m down the road after the pedal strike. The accident churns my stomach even now. Sad.
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby ldrcycles » Wed May 11, 2011 11:55 am

heay wrote:
hosko wrote:Will the leg be neutralized?


No points tonight. I also believe the riders will ride together and in silence as a sign of respect. It was hard to get on the bike today after reading about it and am now even more scared of Sundays ride down from Toowoomba on the descent as I have 2 small children that I wouldn't want them growing up without me being around due to an accident on the bike.

My thoughts go out to his partner and unborn child whom will never meet the great man he is.


+100, i'm doing that ride too and was already a bit apprehensive about how steep the descent might be (i haven't seen it yet so can't say for sure), going to be EXTRA careful now, i've been almost in shock all day at the thought of someone paying such a price when he wasn't even going that fast, didn't hit a guard rail or tree or something.
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby GrumpySmurf » Wed May 11, 2011 7:08 pm

Black Armband this Saturday to show Solidarity for the injured and lost fellow cyclists this Saturday.

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/event.php?eid=100957283328806
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby norbs » Wed May 11, 2011 7:52 pm

GrumpySmurf wrote:Black Armband this Saturday to show Solidarity for the injured and lost fellow cyclists this Saturday.

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/event.php?eid=100957283328806



Not very friendly, you have to be on FaceBook to view it. Can't it be made publicly viewable?
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby vince » Wed May 11, 2011 8:17 pm

without question, a terrible tragedy.
watching stage 4 as team leopard-trek crossed the finish line, i noticed Tyler Farrar was trying to drop back to allow leopard-trek to form up in a straight line, a couple of leopard-trek riders wouldn't have a bar of this and were reaching out to pull him up with them. i have never seen a more moving show of respest anywhere.
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby ldrcycles » Wed May 11, 2011 9:39 pm

Does anyone know what speed he was doing before the crash? My girlfriend is really scared for me now and i want to know as many facts as i can to try and set her mind at rest somewhat.
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby hosko » Wed May 11, 2011 9:57 pm

Doesn't matter what speed he was doing. He could have been going 60km/h or 10km/h and fell the same way and the result would still be the same.

His neck was broken so he was gone before those doc's even got to him.

All we can do is attempt to be as safe as possible. Wear your helmet, gloves and most of all ride smart.

Tell her to put her mind at ease. What happened was quite unfortunate but they could run down that same hill side 100 times again, and it would probably never happen again.

Think of it like this. There is terrorism in this world today, however that doesn't stop you from going to a football match or a place which has a lot of people? I know of people who worry about these things and I know it's going to send them possibly insane. You have to live your life, to enjoy life and not worry about the little things. If you don't make the most of everyday, well then your not living life to the fullest.

So you don't need to be wrapped in cotton wool... and she doesn't need to worry. All that matters is that you do something that you enjoy as safe as you possibly can.
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby sogood » Wed May 11, 2011 10:24 pm

hosko wrote:Doesn't matter what speed he was doing.

Completely false as speed matters! He would highly unlikely to have had that degree of injury at 10km/h.
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2011 Giro

Postby Redbull » Wed May 11, 2011 10:31 pm

Most dangerous "sport" in Australia for loss of life is fishing.

He died with his cleats on.
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby hosko » Wed May 11, 2011 10:40 pm

sogood wrote:
hosko wrote:Doesn't matter what speed he was doing.

Completely false as speed matters! He would highly unlikely to have had that degree of injury at 10km/h.


You're kidding right? Speed in this case was high however you're going to tell me that if he had fell at 10km/h in the same manner he still would not have broken his neck?

Not a theory anyone would want to put to a test I can assure you however if you fall in the wrong manner, the fact that your in motion would be what would be the issue, not the speed at which one was travelling.

Redbull wrote:Most dangerous "sport" in Australia for loss of life is fishing.


Wouldn't be the fact that with this "sport" there tends to be some Alcohol involved?? :!:

Anyway, we are getting off topic about the Giro anyway...
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby bosvit » Wed May 11, 2011 10:47 pm

Redbull wrote:Most dangerous "sport" in Australia for loss of life is fishing.

He died with his cleats on.

I know off topic but I always thought it was Lawn Bowls (bowler myself)

Such a harsh outcome, RIP
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby sogood » Wed May 11, 2011 10:52 pm

hosko wrote:You're kidding right? Speed in this case was high however you're going to tell me that if he had fell at 10km/h in the same manner he still would not have broken his neck?

Speed = Energy. Energy correlates with severity of injury. This is just a basic fact well known to all in the field.

ldrcycles and his girlfriend deserves an objective answer. Then it's up to them to decide how the risks in cycling are managed.
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby Becker_11 » Wed May 11, 2011 11:02 pm

Common sense tells you that if you throw a ball at someone gently it doesn't hurt so much because there was less energy behind the throw but if you get one of the legendary West Indian fast bowlers of the 80's to throw the same ball at someone it will hurt like all hell as there is a lot of energy behind the ball. So how you can say crashing at 1/8th of the speed (10kph vs 80kph) will have the same outcome I do not know.
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby JV911 » Thu May 12, 2011 9:13 am

https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=100957283328806

While this has come about as a direct result of the passing of both Shamus Liptrot and Wouter Weylandt this week, the intention is to commemorate anyone who has lost their life while enjoying riding their bike.

As cyclists we wear different jerseys, ride with different teams,groups, shops or clubs however one thing doesn't change - we are a community who love and share the same passion. This Saturday, no matter where you are or who you ride with why not wear a black armband as a sign of your support and a showing of our strength and unity as a cycling community who together mourn the tragic passing of Wouter Weylandt of the Leopard Trek team and local Aussie lad, Shamus Liptrot both talented cyclists no longer with us. May they rest in peace.

Whilst the passing of Wouter and Shamus has lead to this event being created let's also use this day to remember those that have lost their lives or been injured through racing/training accidents in the past.
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby brentono » Thu May 12, 2011 11:23 am

why not wear a black armband as a sign of your support
and a showing of our strength and unity as a cycling community

+1
Also spare a thought for the young rider, his family and friends,
of Shamus Liptrot who passed away, in this week, after a long fight.
Vale Shamus, RIP. :(
He was racing at the Christmas Track Carnivals in Tasmania, in 2007.
The young cyclist sustained a fractured jaw, fractured femur and skull,
a broken leg and massive blood loss when he was thrown over
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a C Grade Scratch heat at the 2007 carnival.
:|
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby MichaelB » Thu May 12, 2011 12:06 pm

Becker_11 wrote:Common sense tells you that if you throw a ball at someone gently it doesn't hurt so much because there was less energy behind the throw but if you get one of the legendary West Indian fast bowlers of the 80's to throw the same ball at someone it will hurt like all hell as there is a lot of energy behind the ball. So how you can say crashing at 1/8th of the speed (10kph vs 80kph) will have the same outcome I do not know.


For cryin' out loud.

It was a bad comparison. Lets leave it. Someone tragically died because of the situation of THAT fall.

Surely there are more important things in life to worry about ? :roll:

As pointed out by others, Shamus Liptrt passed away as well, after a long recovery. Doubly sad news :(
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby hosko » Thu May 12, 2011 1:12 pm

Leopard Trek have advised that the number 108 has now been retired from the Giro d'Italia forever.
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby Becker_11 » Thu May 12, 2011 2:48 pm

hosko wrote:Leopard Trek have advised that the number 108 has now been retired from the Giro d'Italia forever.


+1 :D
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby Chuck » Thu May 12, 2011 3:33 pm

vince wrote:watching stage 4 as team leopard-trek crossed the finish line, i noticed Tyler Farrar was trying to drop back to allow leopard-trek to form up in a straight line, a couple of leopard-trek riders wouldn't have a bar of this and were reaching out to pull him up with them. i have never seen a more moving show of respest anywhere.


I really liked how they included Farrar, very moving.


Also spare a thought for the young rider, his family and friends,
of Shamus Liptrot who passed away, in this week, after a long fight.
Vale Shamus, RIP


RIP Young man.
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby nyeholt » Thu May 12, 2011 9:40 pm

hosko wrote:Doesn't matter what speed he was doing. He could have been going 60km/h or 10km/h and fell the same way and the result would still be the same.

His neck was broken so he was gone before those doc's even got to him.


Just to clear up a few points, as I think it's important that people don't spread misinformation about what happened. This report by Andrew Hood, a video at Velonews and the accompanying photos (in particular this one, where you can see point where his pedal has clipped the 'wall' on the left, and the final resting place further down on the right, and this one which shows the path of travel of his bike from the scratches on the road) show what happened, which should hopefully clear up what the image on the preceding page was trying to show; he clipped the low wall on the left of the road, and the fall he had took him 20 metres down the road to the wall along the right. There was no falling over the side of the road at all. So no, falling at 10km/h or 60km/h would not cause the same result - (I'm assuming you were saying that falling 20m over the side would cause the same result regardless of speed).

Most reports I've seen talk of speeds between 70 and 80km/h. While not top speed, it's definitely faster than what most of us ride at. As with all other vehicle collisions, the likelihood of injury in an accident increases with speed - these numbers are for cars, but the trend involved should indicate what's going on. The more energy involved in a crash, the more damage that can be done. The race doctor said he had suffered a fracture to the base of the skull; without knowing what's in the autopsy it's not possible to say exactly what caused that fracture. However the accident immediately made me think of basilar skull fractures that caused many deaths in auto racing during the 80s and 90s, which were caused by the huge transference of energy, and is what lead to the introduction of the HANS device used these days. I think it's safe to say that it's impossibly unlikely that these kinds of injuries could be sustained at 10km/h, whatever caused the fractures.

Anyway, that's enough about that. It's tragic that it's happened, but the race will go on. Today's stage again looks suited to a breakaway, with a finish that will probably shed quite a few sprinters, but maybe not all. A little bit up and down, but nothing too steep, so probably not a big risk for GC guys.
Last edited by nyeholt on Thu May 12, 2011 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby Becker_11 » Thu May 12, 2011 9:55 pm

Thanks for your detailed explanation.
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Re: 2011 Giro

Postby ldrcycles » Fri May 13, 2011 8:36 am

Thank you nyeholt, understanding a tragedy is the way to try and avoid a repeat.
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