2013 Tour de France

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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby warthog1 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:21 pm

I'm not really into drugs fellas.
All who go positive should have a life ban though.
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by BNA » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:58 am

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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby brentono » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:58 am

Amusing that "hearsay" holds so much credibility here :lol:
Regarding Contador, I will just rely on the WADA results and the Appeals Court (CSA)
summation on the case, thanks. :wink:

Jules has a point.

And until there is threshold limits on ALL substances tested for by the WADA,
their credibility will be called into question, by any serious chemical analyst.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby biker jk » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:03 am

brentono wrote:Amusing that "hearsay" holds so much credibility here :lol:
Regarding Contador, I will just rely on the WADA results and the Appeals Court (CSA)
summation on the case, thanks. :wink:

Jules has a point.

And until there is threshold limits on ALL substances tested for by the WADA,
their credibility will be called into question, by any serious chemical analyst.
:mrgreen:


Sure it's all "hearsay". Contador was blood doping.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/11529/Ashenden-raises-questions-about-Contadors-blood-levels-in-2010-Tour.aspx
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby brentono » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:22 am

You may wish to read into it, what you will.
And not even going to get into this, as it's done and dusted...
But, here's from your own sited article, if you had bothered to read it... :P

Ashenden said that he was unhappy (panel refused to allow him testify )
with how the CAS panel handled this part of the hearing.
It ultimately ruled that both the blood transfusion theory offered by WADA
as a possible source of the Clenbuterol positive plus the contaminated meat theory argued
by Contador’s team were equally unlikely.


Ashenden was refused to testify (deemed not relevent), by CSA panel.
Both blood transfusion theory and meat theory were equally unlikely.
Try reading the CSA summation, if you are interested, I leave it at that.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby vander » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:54 am

Read Tyler Hamiltons book, it will become glaringly obvious it was from a Blood Transfusion of contaminated blood. It was the main thing they were worried about. If you look at his performances since you know something has changed. Although his "new motivation" ( http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contado ... motivation ) I think means rejoining the arms race fully.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby biker jk » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:03 am

brentono wrote:You may wish to read into it, what you will.
And not even going to get into this, as it's done and dusted...
But, here's from your own sited article, if you had bothered to read it... :P

Ashenden said that he was unhappy (panel refused to allow him testify )
with how the CAS panel handled this part of the hearing.
It ultimately ruled that both the blood transfusion theory offered by WADA
as a possible source of the Clenbuterol positive plus the contaminated meat theory argued
by Contador’s team were equally unlikely.


Ashenden was refused to testify (deemed not relevent), by CSA panel.
Both blood transfusion theory and meat theory were equally unlikely.
Try reading the CSA summation, if you are interested, I leave it at that.
:mrgreen:


I've read the CAS ruling and the Ashenden article so thanks for asking. The CAS ruling dismissed blood doping without any satisfactory reason and concluded supplements were the cause of the clenbuterol positive when Contador himself claimed it was from contaminated beef! If you believe the CAS finding was correct then perhaps you believe in unicorns as well?
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby warthog1 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:08 am

brentono wrote:You may wish to read into it, what you will.
And not even going to get into this, as it's done and dusted...
But, here's from your own sited article, if you had bothered to read it...


You left this bit out in your quotation from the article :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Ashenden pointed out that in 2006 Contador successfully applied to the UCI for an exemption to its usual 50% hematocrit limitation. This involved spending several days in the Lausanne laboratory where he underwent very carefully controlled blood tests.

“Those data were obviously considered to be reliable,” Ashenen explained. “Contador had been granted an exemption based on the validity of those data, thus it would be very difficult for him to turn around and suggest those data could not be relied upon. I used those data to establish to my satisfaction what his natural values for haemoglobin and reticulocytes [young red blood cells – ed.] were.”

Comparing these values to his levels four years later, Ashdenen said that he became concerned by what he saw.

“His 2010 Tour data definitely attracted my attention. As described in the panel’s ruling, my testimony was that his reticulocytes were higher than I would have expected,” he said. “Not just a single result, but every result during that race was equal or above the carefully collected results he'd provided to the Lausanne lab in 2006.”

High reticulocyte levels can be associated with the use of EPO or another similar blood-boosting agent.

“At first I thought this could have been due to the analyser used during that Tour. If the analyser had been reporting results slightly high, that would have explained why Contador's values were higher than expected. However I cross-checked the results of other riders, and it was not due to the instrument.

“My second thought was that perhaps this signature was just typical of how Contador's body responded to the competition of a major stage race. Again I was able to cross-check this with his other results during previous victories at major Tours, and that did not explain the 2010 Tour values either. In fact his 2010 Tour results were higher than any other value he'd provided during any of his previous major victories.”

He said that neither he nor Contador’s own blood expert could successfully explain the increase in reticulocytes, looking at natural means alone.

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/11529 ... z2Zv8dzwTU


vander wrote:Read Tyler Hamiltons book, it will become glaringly obvious it was from a Blood Transfusion of contaminated blood. It was the main thing they were worried about. If you look at his performances since you know something has changed. Although his "new motivation" ( http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contado ... motivation ) I think means rejoining the arms race fully.


Yes clearly not the same rider without "assistance"
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby brentono » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:23 am

it's done and dusted... and if you believe in the rules.
The decision of the Panel stands, and ALL parties must abide (no posibility of a challenge)
... the rest is Lip Service. Talk among yourselves, I'm out.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby The_Eggman » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:59 pm

Orica Greenedge. Great tour for them but what happened with Goss? He was MIA. Wasn't even sighted in most sprint finishes.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby The_Eggman » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:28 pm

Slightly unnerving suggestions on twitter about news close to home....
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby briztoon » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:41 pm

The_Eggman wrote:Slightly unnerving suggestions on twitter about news close to home....


And for those of us who don't follow social media, this news is?

I don't like it when people hint at something and leave it at that, it's just a form of rumour mongering or trolling.

If anyone has any conclusive information why Goss failed to perform, I'd love to hear it. I'd also love to hear anyones theories.

I know a couple of instances Goss was impeded by late crashes or caught out in the wrong place, but he generally failed to make any impression on the sprint stages.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:52 pm

I don't think it is about Goss, more likely about certain retirements.
All depends on what is said in the French Senate list of EPO positives... supposedly being read out now as we speak.
Who knows...shoulder shrug.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby briztoon » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:55 pm

Oh, ok, foot meet mouth.

So I "assume" we're (not) talking about Stuart O'Grady? :?
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:59 pm

The timing of retirement may or may not be relevant... who knows, I will wait and see what is read out.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby schroeds » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:03 pm

... I REALLY hope the timing of Ogrady's retirement has nothing to do with the French EPO list.

...as TLL refers, the French leaks say that Laurent Jalabert, Marco Pantani, Jan Ullrich and Bobby Julich were all on EPO in the 1998 tour.

That hardly seems like news, sadly :roll:
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby Purt » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:51 pm



Team Sky staff altercation with supporters during Tour de France 2013 - Stage 20 / At the end of stage 20, finishing up Semnoz pass, a Sky car was hit by a camper van backing up. When the Sky staff got out to check they were attacked by supporters, in particular the camper van driver. They didn't answered back the knocks and were surprised by the violence of the attack. In the end, you can see them leaving the scene as advised by my brother (the one with the grey backpack), who was actually the only guy speaking english and therefore able to advise the Sky guys. We heard a lot of anti-sky, anti-english comments, treating them of "all juiced" and telling them to "go back home" (those comments were in French). Personally, me, my brothers and my friend, we were shocked and disgusted by the attitude of those people, clearly they spent all the day drinking and the nice weather heated up everybody. And they were quick to attack and insult anybody. We tried our best to advise and sort out the situation, it was unexpected, and hopefully very rare. It was a cool day supporting every rider we saw inculding the Sky ones, good memories and "Vive le Tour !"
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby Purt » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:01 pm

and what apparently went down on Alpe D'Huez.

I was on Corner 10 and saw what happened here. There were a group of French guys across from us with a blow up pool and syringes and they were squirting people cycling up along all day. It seemed to be good fun at the start but they were targeting people wearing Sky jerseys more. When the sky car passed they did throw a bucket of water in the window, although they were squirting water in other car windows too. When Froome came up the first time three of them ran up and squirted two big full syringes directly into his face. It was very powerful and I was horrified to be honest. Froome had to look away and many of us were talking about how awful and dangerous it was.

When the riders were due to come around the second time, we (2 Irish people) noticed that they were inside their van changing into scrubs which had syringes attached to them. They all had syringes ready to go. One of them was waiting outside to tell them when Froome was coming around the corner. I went over to a group of three British people (2 women and one guy) to tell them as we had discussed stopping them/calling the Gendarmarie if they tried to attack Froome again. As we were discussing what to do, it seemed that Froome was came coming close. Two of the British people ran over and stood against the door of the van to keep them in. The French guys were going MENTAL inside in the van and I reckon they broke the door of the van as they were stuck inside. The french guy keeping watch for Froome ran over and grabbed the British woman , throwing her aside VERY roughly. My boyfriend ran over to help her and to try to calm the guy who was FURIOUS and I ran down to get a nearby Gendarmarie. By the time I got back they were still stuck in the van, the Gendarmarie also stood against the door blocking them and Froome passed, wrecking their 'prank'. This all happened very quickly of course!

The French guys then managed to get out the back door (denting their own van) and three of them viciously attacked the British guy running straight out in front of riders. The almost knocked one rider and three riders had to actually stop as they were fighting in the middle of the road. One of the women ran over to help her friend and one of the French guys grabbed her by the hair, swung her around and punched her. My boyfriend again tried to help them, as did many other supporters, who tried to break up the fight. While the Gendarmarie were trying to take the British guy away, the French guys attacked him again, as he was being held. Eventually things settled, but it was very scary. The British women were really shook and upset. I was personally very scared myself as I thought they might attack me for calling the police or that my boyfriend would be hurt. It was really horrible. None of these guys had bikes, jerseys or even a French flag. They did not seem to know or care than a French rider took the stage. They seemed to be there solely to sabotage Froome. The had a big sign on the cliff saying "Froome Dopé". After the whole incident they went up and ripped down a pro-Froome poster too and got booed by spectators.

I heard later on Semnoz from other people staying on Corner 10 that later that night that they were all arrested. I really hope so. I also hope that the riders or Sky don't associate this incident with corner 10 or the Irish. I have already heard some versions of the story that seem to suggest it was connected to the Irish corner- but they had nothing to do with us. I wouldn't like to think the Irish were booing Sky but if they were, I'd say in was probably is a jokey kind of 'old rivals' way.

I suppose the positive thing to come out of it was that their prank was ruined. They were FURIOUS and the British guy they attacked did joke to me afterwards that is was worth it to see how pissed off they were!


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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby jcjordan » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:12 pm

I am so glad this type of behaviour has not come to the TDU.


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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby schroeds » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:19 pm

Sad to see soccer style hooliganism come to the Tour :evil: ... a victim of its own success?

I feel for the riders having to endure abusive attacks up the climbs, they didn't sign up for that. Sure the crowd adds colour and it's a great tradition, but if it gets in the way of the riding, I'd prefer to see them barricaded off the road (however impractical that may be)
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby schroeds » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:34 pm

Without barriers



With barriers

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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby warthog1 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:19 pm

I would have hoped that sort of behaviour would be roundly rejected by the crowd.
It's good they were booed for removing the sign but I would have hoped that when they became violent the crowd would have intervened against them.
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