Hour Record thread

[warthog1]

Thanks for that Alex
I've never raced track. How much, if any, would Wiggo's track heritage favour him over Der Panzerwagen should Tony Martin have a crack?

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Thanks for that Alex
I've never raced track. How much, if any, would Wiggo's track heritage favour him over Der Panzerwagen should Tony Martin have a crack?

Well I can't really speculate about Martin's current track craft and a differential to Wiggins in that regard. He's not totally void of track experience though - he was a member of team that won German team pursuit championship about a decade ago. Team pursuit success at elite level suggest he possesses or can reclaim reasonable track skill levels.

I did an analysis of the impact of track craft on track lines for six pro-continental pro riders. Even quality road riders vary quite a lot in their track proficiency:
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com.au/2015/ ... thers.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[warthog1]

If you ride 10cm wider in the turns, you add 10cm x 2 x PI = 62.8cm per lap.

If the extra width is measured on the track's surface, well the actual addition to the distance the wheel travels is reduced by the cosine of the banking angle. e.g. say the track's turns are, on average, banked at 40 degrees, and you ride 10cm above the black line. Then the actual additional track radius ridden is cosine (40 degrees) x 10cm = 7.7cm, and the additional distance per lap = 7.7cm x 2 x PI = 48.1cm. Nearly half a metre.

Do that over 200 laps or so for an elite hour record and you'll ride ~100 metres more than you need to. And that's for riding only a hand's width above the black line.

Thanks again Alex
Given they should be pretty close if TM does have a crack it could make some difference.

[CKinnard]

Wiggins has superior W/m^2 compared with Dennis

what's Wiggo's CdA?

[warthog1]

I don't believe you need to know it or could know unless you have done aero testing with him. The fact that he has been faster than Rohan means he is either more aero or is generating more power or both.
In my uneducated opinion

[Bluejay87]

not doing it at altitude seems counterintuitive.

Would the aero benefit outweigh the loss of oxygen and therefore power. Was just reading this old article about Jens Voigt which suggested his FTP is 420-440 at sea level compared to 370w at 9000-10,000 feet. Seems like such a drop in power would need a huge aero benefit to be adequately compensated for:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/08/ ... nge_235832" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[warthog1]

From that link;
Voigt’s functional threshold power (FTP) at sea level is around 420-440W, so adjusting 12 percent off for the elevation, I’ve estimated Voigt’s FTP at 370W for this high elevation race.
Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/08/ ... arkPZAD.99" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Choosing to ride at sea level is a mistake IMO, but the home court was clearly too big a sales and marketing opportunity to pass up.

Alex has probably forgotten more about bike racing than I know so I'll go with his opinion.

Also this bloke was no fool

In 1972 Eddy Merckx set the hour record in Mexico City at an altitude of 2,300m (7,550 ft) where he proclaimed it to have been "the hardest ride I have ever done".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hour_record" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CKinnard]

I don't believe you need to know it or could know unless you have done aero testing with him. The fact that he has been faster than Rohan means he is either more aero or is generating more power or both.
In my uneducated opinion

I'm wondering on what basis Alex says Wiggo's is superior to Dennis'.

I think one has to be very careful comparing road ITT course results with track.

Anyway, I'm sure this event is going to generate a lot of interest.
And hopefully we'll all end up better informed about what makes a cyclist go faster...and stop spending $10,000+ on a bike only to end a ride at the local cafe hoeing into cream puffs (rather than eating rabbit food, and stretching hams and spine)
Topically, I had a low fat soy flat white this morning with one of the lads, who rolled up on a new Storck with Cosmic deep sections and super record groupo.

[Alex Simmons/RST]

I'm wondering on what basis Alex says Wiggo's is superior to Dennis'.

For the simple reason that he has proven to be faster than Dennis in the same flat TTs. That requires superior W/m^2.

Wiggins is no mug when it comes to track W/m^2 either, with several of the fastest individual pursuit times in history.

[Alex Simmons/RST]

not doing it at altitude seems counterintuitive.

Would the aero benefit outweigh the loss of oxygen and therefore power.

Yes, it does. You are correct in that it is a balance between the physical benefit and physiological cost.

It is variable of course as adaptation to altitude is individually variable and so how much one benefits depends, but there is benefit at altitude provided you use a suitable venue. Not all tracks have a fast surface, and there are other considerations wrt environmental conditions to account for, but in general for an elite athlete who has altitude-adapted, ceteris paribus, higher altitude = faster (within the altitude range of suitable available tracks).

I wrote about that here as well:
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com.au/2014/ ... rt-ii.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The reason a lot of sea level records exist in historical record is the availability of suitable venues and logistics. Not many quality tracks were available at high altitude close to where riders lived and worked.

I have a bit of experience with this stuff.

I have personally coached 3 successful (and still current) hour records at masters/age cat level, and provided technical and consulting advice on other successful hour records, including at altitude and elite national records. Where altitude was involved, the individual's power loss fell within the ranges discussed in that blog item. Where possible, testing should be performed to assess an individual's response, and a strong plan for adaptation be developed (it will vary by individual). That requires extra time, cost and other logistical considerations, so not everyone is up for that but if you truly want to squeeze every last metre out of yourself, then that's what you should do.

As for track aerodynamics, I kind of know a little bit, given I'm a pioneer in the field of practical track aerodynamic field testing and optimisation and many years ago provided analysis and methodology tools for others to freely use if they want to do their own experiments, using both a "classical" field testing approach (as described by Coggan, Martin et al) and another (virtual elevation modelling as described originally by Prof Robert Chung) which morphed into the freely available Aerolab on Golden Cheetah and programmed by my friend Andy Froncioni. I've delivered many aero testing seminars to people from all around the world, theory and practical. I also do track aero testing and optimisation work for a living using technologies developed with my good buddies at Alphamantis and in now use by the AIS and several pro teams. I'll just leave it at that.

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Anyway, I'm sure this event is going to generate a lot of interest.
And hopefully we'll all end up better informed about what makes a cyclist go faster...and stop spending $10,000+ on a bike only to end a ride at the local cafe hoeing into cream puffs (rather than eating rabbit food, and stretching hams and spine)

Yes, just having these discussions is fun - bit of pub banter.

As to what makes one go faster - that's pretty simple - it's a simple supply and demand equation:
i. increase available power
ii. reduce the resistance forces

and to win races, you need to add to i. "and use it wisely"

the challenge is what to prioritise, and that depends on your individual goals/objectives. If it's to enjoy yourself and have a bit of fun, then ride and eat what you like. Who cares if it's a $10 clunker or a $10k super rig? If the goal is to win championships, well the equation is somewhat different, that requires talent, hard work, discipline, motivation, experience and so on. And it will also involve minimising resistance forces through intelligent equipment and bike position choices.

[warthog1]

Rohan Dennis on the Dowset and Wiggins hour record attempts

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dennis- ... nd-wiggins" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[find_bruce]

Dennis brief reign as record holder is over, Dowsett gets close to 53 km

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/alex-d ... 15/results" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CKinnard]

wow... he seemed to hold a very straight course. impressed with his self control to keep pace sub record for the first 50 odd minutes.

[Alex Simmons/RST]

A smart ride. Here's pacing data and some analysis from my colleague in the UK:



Air density approx 1.16kg/m^3

[find_bruce]

The graph of Dowsett's effort posted above by Alex is impressive. Given the huge kick at the end, I wonder if he couldn't have gone out slightly harder. Easy for me to say but of course much, much harder to do

wow... he seemed to hold a very straight course. impressed with his self control to keep pace sub record for the first 50 odd minutes.

Dowsett knew that Dennis faded in the final quarter.

Much more consistent and fading in the final quarter hour which probably resulted from slight lift in pace half way. About a 25W drop towards the end compared with average. Well executed and shows the benefit of track preparation and thinking about how to better execute the pacing strategy (BMC contacted Xav to get our thoughts after Bobridge's effort).

[ldrcycles]

The graph of Dowsett's effort posted above by Alex is impressive. Given the huge kick at the end, I wonder if he couldn't have gone out slightly harder. Easy for me to say but of course much, much harder to do

Tallies with Dowsett's comments that it wasn't as hard as he expected, and thinks he may have more.

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Dowsett's strategy was to set a new world hour record, not to the ride the absolute most he could on the day. The latter objective requires a slightly riskier pacing strategy. Of course the two strategies can overlap, but not always. e.g. Voigt and Dowsett used this slightly more conservative and smart approach to set a record.

Dowsett listened to sound advice and executed very well.

[Alex Simmons/RST]

FYI - history of hour records recognised by the UCI.

[find_bruce]

Dowsett's strategy was to set a new world hour record, not to the ride the absolute most he could on the day. The latter objective requires a slightly riskier pacing strategy. Of course the two strategies can overlap, but not always. e.g. Voigt and Dowsett used this slightly more conservative and smart approach to set a record.

It seems Wiggins is taking the more aggressive strategy

"It sounds a bit horrible to say but I could break the record tomorrow. But I don’t just want to break it, I want to put it right up there, as far out of reach as I can," Wiggins told The Times. "I've got 55km in my head and I think it’s realistic. And I think if I do it, it will stand for 20 years."

[ldrcycles]

Super impressive effort by Wiggins. Does anyone know why SBS didn't broadcast it though? I was amped up to have it on the tv at work this morning only to find coverage of the Women's World Cup instead (although good on SBS for broadcasting that).

[foo on patrol]

I'd just like to know what he did? Nothing on the news and being in the truck doesn't help me find out.[ANGRY FACE]

Foo

[Dean Learner]

54.526

[find_bruce]

cycling news article

Faded at the end, reportedly due to heat. Pacing graph from Alex's mate Xavier Disley



Interestingly Xavier estimates that the high air pressure in London cost Wiggins 490m

[GAV!N]

Smashed it. As expected really. Can't see it being beaten for a while now. Maybe Tony Martin if he trained and aimed for it? But not sure what his track pedigree is like?? Surely that would have helped Wiggo a little bit over someone who isn't as track orientated. Great effort.