So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

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MichaelB
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So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby MichaelB » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:27 am

:shock:

Yep, I heard right. :shock: At least I think I did.

Some friends are going to the TdF in 2016, and the missus said that it's a good opportunity to go there with some other like minded peeps (she's not one of them) as I'd really enjoy it, and besides, it'd be part of my 50th birthday celebrations. :|

Now, whilst I'd love to go and watch the TdF in real life, I'd rather watch a few stages, but then do some of the great climbs in that area that we just don't have here.

The key one for me is Stelvio.

Image

Ever since I've seen images like this, and De Ghent's ride up there in the Giro, it's one I want, no, NEED to do. I'll suffer like a dawg trying to do it, but I just have to. There is also a family connection of sorts - the old man showed me a post card that his parents sent when they went up there on holiday in 1962 or thereabouts.

I'd also want to do some other climbs there, but not the usual Alpe D'Huez etc. I reckon the Galiber to mark Cadel's epic chase would be good too.

So whilst I can still dream, make some suggestions. I'd like to do the Mortirolo, as whilst it will almost kill me, it would be a major triumph, and it's nearby to the Stelvio.

Thoughts, experiences, recommendations (do I take my bike or hire one ?), which cols should I try (and why) ?

Thanks in advance

Michael B

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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby queequeg » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:58 pm

Lol Haute Route x 3 for 2700km of riding over three weeks. You'll probably never want to climb another hill in your life after that :-)
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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby tcdev » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:27 pm

Half your luck! I mentioned it to the wife the night before last and her response was "Why would I want to follow a bunch of lycra-clad men cycling around France?" Even suggestions that she go shopping whilst I watched the race were met with similar disdain. Rest assured, you won't bump into me over there in 2016. :( But here's hoping that one of us will have a great time!

FWIW it's also my 50th next year! I'll have to think very long and hard about how/when to play that trump card.
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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby kb » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:03 pm

tcdev wrote:Half your luck! I mentioned it to the wife the night before last and her response was "Why would I want to follow a bunch of lycra-clad men cycling around France?" Even suggestions that she go shopping whilst I watched the race were met with similar disdain. Rest assured, you won't bump into me over there in 2016. :( But here's hoping that one of us will have a great time!

FWIW it's also my 50th next year! I'll have to think very long and hard about how/when to play that trump card.

Fifty (long) Saturday morning rides?
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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby Chris249 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:43 pm

I've only done three HC climbs so I'm no expert, but if you're near the Stelvio and Mortorolo, then you have to do the Gavia, of course. It's physically beautiful and has more visible history, from various monuments to the refugios at the top (I preferred the northern one) and the amazing little restaurant in stone huts that clings to a field on the eastern climb, with power via generators and water fed by the glacier.

One problem is that the classic side to do the Stelvio is from the east (the side with more hairpins) and the classic side for the Gavia is from the southeast. If you stay in Bormio you will be between the Stelvio, the Gavia and the Mortirolo, but the only way to get to the "classic' sides of the first two is by going up and over them first. Having said that, it's not as if the other sides are a let-down.

One problem with the Mortirolo is that the approaches are not easy to do by bike, apparently, which is why I never got there. From Bormio to the north it's apparently a busy multi-lane road, and from the southern side you have significant climbs even before you drop down to the base of the Mortirolo.

Two things that struck me were how cold it can get (I had lots of gear but still got hypothermic in the wet on the Stelvio), and also that if you're going to check out Tour climbs then you are facing a significant drive to get to the Stelvio. I'm having my first look at the French Alps in September and then going to a spot near the Gavia by train - it only takes a few hours and may be a lot easier than driving. Last time I got around by bike, train, bus and ski-field gondola, but obviously that means you have to pack light and do some climbs with full touring gear. Personally I loved the feeling of moving across country by bike, but still doing the classic climbs that most cyclotourists ignore, but I can understand many people may not like it as a way to travel.

I assume you've checked out sites like CyclingChallenge and the Col Collective - Will at CyclingChallenge will answer questions on his blog, and the info Col Collective gives seems to be very accurate.

I was going to follow Cadel's route up the Galibier too since I remember watching it so well, but it looks as if the tunnel closure will mess that up and 2016 looks like the right year. Have a great time!

The restaurant on the side of the Gavia - great place to stop for beer and chips!

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It's a long way down, even when you've already zipped down a few ks and when you can't see the bottom....

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but the windsurfing on Lago Bianca at the top of the Gavia isn't always stellar, especially when you're thinking about what you happen if you fell into the glacier-fed lake and then had to ride down in sodden knicks. :shock:

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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby MichaelB » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:28 am

Thanks Chris249 - some good advice there.

Did you use your bike or hire one ? Can you take bikes on the trains there ?

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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby Chris249 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:46 pm

I took my bike, partly because it's hard to hire CX bikes and I love their combination of speed and utility.

There are some restrictions on what trains will take bikes - generally the German high speed ones won't (although I didn't realise it and I got aboard with my bagged one). Some French or Italian ones won't, depending on the particular line or service. Medium-speed and slow-speed trains often have special spaces. Some digging on the net will allow you to program everything pretty well - you can just hop pretty seamlessly from (say) northern Germany to the Alps and back by public transport and bike.

Much of the time you have to bag the bike for trains and buses, so my wife and I have Ground Effect Body Bags for travelling. They weigh 1.5kg and fold up into an A4 or A3 size package. They will take a roadie with the front wheel and seatpost removed. We fly with them, removing the rear derailleur and pedals as well and grabbing some cardboard for extra protection.

You can have a really fantastic time cycling around there, and personally I love being able to relax on train during the long-distance transfers and then move at cycling speed to experience the countryside and culture. My wife and I also did a day ride (100km) with all our gear to get from our arrival airport to where her conference was, before I left her to do the Alps. I then caught a light rail and then long-distance trains to get back to her before we met her sister and spent a few days riding a flat trail through Germany. It worked so well we're doing pretty much the same thing in August/September this year in different areas. Next year we may do a bit of the Pyrenees while making our way to my wife's next conference via her uncle's chateau near Carcassone.*

I'm waiting for TLL, dalai and others to chime in, as they have a lot more experience than I do.


* Actually, technically it's a maison because it has a vineyard attached. Either way, rich uncles with amazing places in the south of France are good things to have.
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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby roller » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:30 pm

MichaelB wrote:Thoughts, experiences, recommendations (do I take my bike or hire one ?)


When I next go I will take my bike, hire a car, spend a week in the Pyrenees, a week in the French Alps and if possible a week in Italy.

I've caught the train with a bike before, it's doable, but it can be a real pain.

We had a lot more enjoyment for the period of time where he had a car hired.

I'll find a cycling specific B&B to stay in (my recommendation for the Pyrenees is "Pyractif") which will help meet up with other riders who are looking to do some good rides.

As far as following the tour around, that is a lot of fun, but be prepared for some really long days of effort for a relatively short pay off (on a mountain stage the tour will pass you in about 20 minutes) (caravan will take another hour or so) - but you could be driving/walking/waiting for a whole day for that.

We did ride up a couple of the climbs on the day the tour went through (Col Du Grand Colombier and Col Du Glandon) with lots of people around, which was good fun and had a great atmosphere (but I think I enjoyed doing the climbs by myself more).

It's great though, you can get so close:

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you can really see the pain on their faces..

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But in my experience it wasn't as much fun as actually cycling the climbs on a quiet day all by yourself (or with a friend or two).

Not always on your own though (port de bales):

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MichaelB wrote:which cols should I try (and why) ?


Pyrenees:

Superbagneres (challenging and beautiful)

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Port De Bales (challenging and beautiful)

Col d'Aspin (err... challenging and beautiful)

Hourquette d'Ancizan ...well I did the easy side so it was just beautiful :mrgreen:

Peyresourde (there is a great crepe shop at the top) they sell beer too

plus any others that take your fancy.

French Alps:

Galibier (amazing) - do not miss, do not skip (obviously subject to road being ok).

Image

Col de la Madeleine (beautiful climb, super fun decent (i did it during the etape so the roads were closed)

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Col Du Glandon/Croix De Fer (brutal) - the views from the top of these two are just amazing.
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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby MichaelB » Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:59 am

Thanks again guys for the additional info and pics.

Leafed again through a book that was a b'day gift a few years ago "Mountain High".

Also found the postcard from my Dad's parents that I mentioned earlier - it was sent in Sept 1959 !!

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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby roller » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:24 am

MichaelB wrote:Thanks again guys for the additional info and pics.

Leafed again through a book that was a b'day gift a few years ago "Mountain High".

Also found the postcard from my Dad's parents that I mentioned earlier - it was sent in Sept 1959 !!


you're welcome :)

I know there are a lot of sportifs in Italy and there's always the E'tape around tour time in France (plus probably a host of others)

They'd be worth trying to book around I think, they do these events really really well and it would be great to do one.

This year's Etape is this sunday, it's pretty much the same course as the year I did it [2012] (however we did the madeleine instead of the chaussy):

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It would be a beast of a ride to do (ugh it was), but a great sense of accomplishment after.

Etape general info: http://www.letapedutour.com/ET1/us/etape_du_tour.html
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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby roller » Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:25 am

Oh I can also recommend a good bike hire place in Annecy (worth a visit to refresh your tired legs) too.

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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby MichaelB » Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:04 pm

I'm still in two minds (if the whole trip goes ahead that is). My thoughts are catch a stage or two and ride some cols in the area with the people I go with (although they are thinking of a small package tour for part of it) and then going to two spots and riding the mountains around that area (travel via car hire), or doing some form of organised tour like this one

http://www.topbike.com.au/italian-cycling-holidays/classic-italian-climbs.html

but the cost puts me off a bit, but would be well worth it due to the support you get (and I'd need :roll: ) to get up some of those passes.

The 60 min story with Cadel/Hamish added to the enthusiasm as well .....

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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby roller » Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:50 pm

MichaelB wrote:My thoughts are catch a stage or two and ride some cols in the area with the people I go with (although they are thinking of a small package tour for part of it) and then going to two spots and riding the mountains around that area (travel via car hire), or doing some form of organised tour like this one

http://www.topbike.com.au/italian-cycling-holidays/classic-italian-climbs.html

but the cost puts me off a bit, but would be well worth it due to the support you get (and I'd need :roll: ) to get up some of those passes.


there's pros and cons for each, obviously

pros for a package tour: less to worry about, more people to ride with

cons: have to follow someone else's plan rather than your nose, could move around a lot which means packing/un-packing suitcase a lot.

Staying in one location and then riding in/out from that location is great in that respect, get there, unpack - ride out, ride home again.


Having said that I did a "package" tour with these guys for the Paris-Roubaix sportif one year, they were really well organised and quite reasonable in cost:

http://www.sportstoursinternational.co.uk

They also do tours for the Tour De France, Giro, plus all the sportives as well.

Their bike hire was good too.

Would recommend them.


I am jealous of your potential holiday.
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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby roller » Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:53 pm

hey here's some interesting reading:

http://www.sportstoursinternational.co. ... ndo-events

:mrgreen:
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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby MichaelB » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:04 pm

roller wrote: ...Having said that I did a "package" tour with these guys for the Paris-Roubaix sportif one year, they were really well organised and quite reasonable in cost:

....


That's the other thing on my bucket list.

The only issue with doing that means that the other climbs are a lot harder to do (Stelvio in particular) due to the weather. So it's probably one or the other.

Just as Stelvio has a soft spot in my heart, Roubaix has another, for different reasons. It's something that not many people do (in comparison to the Alp climbs.

I'm jealous too of your trip(s), as whilst mine 'might' happen, nothing is concrete yet. far from it.

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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby coffeeandwine » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:02 pm

MichaelB, what a great woman she must be...

I wouldn't hesitate for a second in recommending Pro Cycling Tours if you are chasing package deal to watch some stages and do some lovely rides away from le TdF. We went with them last year and thoroughly enjoyed it, support was awesome and got my non-climbers body up some big climbs.

QANTAS/Emirates will not charge you to carry your bike (part of 30kg allowance).

If you are there more than 21 days, consider leasing a car from Peugeot, Renault or Citroen. Around the same cost of a hire car but unlimited km, easy drop off, insurance included (no excess-tested this out), multiple drivers included. You can purchase some roof racks and bike carriers, so you can easily get 4 people, luggage into a 308 wagon and 3-4 bikes on top (get the racks delivered to your hotel). This gives you flexibility to do the climbs you want to-not what is on the list of the tour group.

Mortirolo and Stelvio sound awesome, but then I may not see 51 (again :) ).
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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby MichaelB » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:10 am

coffeeandwine wrote:MichaelB, what a great woman she must be...

....


Yup :D

Thanks for the info. Some more stuff to think about. Thanks

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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby Grog » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:39 pm

Briztoon (bna member) did the trip in 2013. Thread in this section under title "my tdf"
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=66118

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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby coffeeandwine » Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:40 am

Thought of some more climbs/rides:

Sella Ronda (Dolomites) would be awesome (if i could climb/descend :D ) (more photos etc)

I have made it as far as Col de Soulor, (reluctantly had to turn around) apparently I missed some spectacular scenery between Soulor and the Col de l'Aubisque-have heard it is stunning. Also in the Pyrenees: Luz Ardiden.

Or if Flanders sounds appealing...

The coffee is better in Italy... but Belgium has the best beer :D .
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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby RideonTime » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:32 pm

roller wrote:
MichaelB wrote:

Not always on your own though (port de bales):

Image


Port De Bales (challenging and beautiful)



no don't recognise that one, could be Cheng bringing up the rear

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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby MichaelB » Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:24 pm

Thanks again to others that have posted info and suggestions.

My current line of thinking is that whilst I am limited to the SA school holidays, my very rough plan would be ;

Fly over to France and stay somewhere like Saint Jean de Maurienne (or similar local) for 4 - 5 days and do lots of riding up some great climbs, and then watch TdF on the TV somewhere

Decamp to somewhere (1 or 2 places) like Bormio (for Stelvio & Mortirolo) for a 3-4 days, then to Cannazei (or similar to do Selle Ronde - both ways) for 3-4 days.

Then as a final bit, catch up with friends (wherever they are) near the end if the TdF, watch the race from some key spots and then head home.

The climbs I'd like to do ; (apologies for spelling)
Stelvio (may try an epic ride to do both ascents in the one day :shock: )
Selle Ronde route (both ways ?)
Mortirolo (just to say I've done it 32 or 36T rear, here I come)
Col du Galibier
Croix de Fer
That new 3.4km goat track that the TdF did on Stage 18
Cold du Chaussy
La Toussiere


So my question is :

What type of accommodation should I be looking for (either single or twin share) that can be self contained (cook & clean), bicycle friendly, and not tenting (I'm not a camper). I'm on a tight(ish) budget, so no 5 star hotels.

Use something like AirBnB or ??

Ta

Michael B

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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby roller » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:48 pm

Found a page with info on B&Bs in St Jean De Maurienne:

http://www.saintjeandemaurienne.com/uk/ ... kfast.aspx

alternatively, I just googled these cycling B&Bs in Bourg D'Oisans (foot of alpe d'huez):

http://www.bourgdoisansbandb.com/for-cyclists

http://www.cyclingascents.com/bedandbre ... bci8SqqpBc

Looks like a couple of good options there.

Staying at a cycling B&B you'll most likely meet some fellow cyclists to go off on adventures with, could be handy for the first couple of days while you're finding your feet.
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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby toolonglegs » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:52 pm

Chris249 wrote:One problem with the Mortirolo is that the approaches are not easy to do by bike, apparently, which is why I never got there. From Bormio to the north it's apparently a busy multi-lane road, and from the southern side you have significant climbs even before you drop down to the base of the Mortirolo.

Shame you got that info as it is not true... the "village" road from Bormio is very quiet as everyone takes the tunnel.

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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby toolonglegs » Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:09 pm

MichaelB wrote:Fly over to France and stay somewhere like Saint Jean de Maurienne (or similar local) for 4 - 5 days and do lots of riding up some great climbs, and then watch TdF on the TV somewhere

Decamp to somewhere (1 or 2 places) like Bormio (for Stelvio & Mortirolo) for a 3-4 days, then to Cannazei (or similar to do Selle Ronde - both ways) for 3-4 days.

Then as a final bit, catch up with friends (wherever they are) near the end if the TdF, watch the race from some key spots and then head home.

The climbs I'd like to do ; (apologies for spelling)
Stelvio (may try an epic ride to do both ascents in the one day :shock: )
Selle Ronde route (both ways ?)
Mortirolo (just to say I've done it 32 or 36T rear, here I come)
Col du Galibier
Croix de Fer
That new 3.4km goat track that the TdF did on Stage 18
Cold du Chaussy
La Toussiere


So my question is :

What type of accommodation should I be looking for (either single or twin share) that can be self contained (cook & clean), bicycle friendly, and not tenting (I'm not a camper). I'm on a tight(ish) budget, so no 5 star hotels.

Use something like AirBnB or ??

Ta

Michael B


Maybe I am biased ... but I have stayed in Saint Jean de Maurienne a few times and have never really enjoyed it, problem is there are some really good rides in the area. Glandon and Galabier are best done from that valley.
Also if you want to do Stelvio then you should fly into Milan... and fly out of Lyon.
AN itinerary I have done quite a few times now is Milan up to Arraba ( do Sella Rhonda, either direction is good, but no real need to do it both ways ), then maybe something like Passo Giau.
Then over to Bormio, problem will be from Sella Rhonda area you will have to drive over Stelvio to get to Bormio, then ride up Stelvio from the south side, great climb but not the best side.
Then do the Mortirolo / Gavia loop... BIG day. The only way to do Mortirolo is from the Tirano side. By far the best side of Gavia is from Ponte di Legno ( make sure you check out the old road next to the tunnel ... absolute highlight!!!! ). Van support is free / very cheap if you are there on the right days / staying in the right hotels with the Stelvio Experience.
After Bormio go to Como or Lecco for a night and do Madona de Ghisallo ... see the museum and chapel.
Then a big drive over to Valloire or similar. Do Galibier and maybe Madeliene or Glandon ( Glandon classic side is from Maurienne valley side ). Croix de Fer is only 3 k's from top of Glandon, descend down Fer for the loop, less epic climb than Glandon. The lacettes also, only a couple of k long ... the main adventure there is finding the photo spot at the top.
Then over to some where around Bourg D'oisans ... Obvioulsy Alpe D'huez ( add in Sarenne if you can ). Also ride up to Venosc, chuck the bike on the cable car and go up to Les deux Alpes ... descent down and do the turn off so you can do the balcony road into La Garde. Another absolute highlight / adventure is the ride up the Ornon ride and turn off to Villard Reymond ... another balcony ride looking across to Alpe D'huez with a K or so of gravel and some very dark tunnels... always a favourite for everyone who does it.

PS ... even better get 4 to 8 mates together and I will be your guide/ driver .... then you will get to do all the best climbs from the best sides with a support van and great hire bikes :wink: :wink: :wink:

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Re: So, TdF 2016 ? The missus said I could go .....

Postby MichaelB » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Thanks guys, lots of info.

TLL - might be sending you lots of questions if it get closer to fruition ... :-)

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