I think it was the ones running a tri spoke on the front that were getting into trouble, rather than the carbon disc on the back. Of couse, it depends on the rider size and weight as well.foo on patrol wrote:I don't understand why, the managers would let them go out on a full dsc, when the wind was so bad?
Foo
2016 Tour de France
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby madmacca » Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:24 am
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby AUbicycles » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:13 pm
I want to see more action, but yes, Froomey has done the hard yards.
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby biker jk » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:16 pm
I prefer not to see any rider's defication....AUbicycles wrote:While Froome is not my favourite, the dedication to run in cleats rather than sit and wait is defication that not every rider would show.
I want to see more action, but yes, Froomey has done the hard yards.
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby mikesbytes » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:19 pm
I noticed that most went for a shallow front and that was probably most sensible
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby DavidS » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:59 am
It reminds me of Schleck going off the front on the penultimate mountain on a stage the year Cadel Evans won. He knew he needed to get time on Evans, he knew he couldn't get enough on one mountain. He took the risk and had a go. He gained time but not enough in the end. But he gave himself every chance to win by making risky moves, and it was a hell of a race because Schleck had a go and Evans fought back.
Can Quintana do something similar, is he willing to try? He's come second a couple of times, he needs to do more if he is to have any chance of winning.
DS
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby g-boaf » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:25 am
Certainly noticed a few riders using more regular lower profile wheels instead of the 60+mm and rear disc combos.madmacca wrote:I think it was the ones running a tri spoke on the front that were getting into trouble, rather than the carbon disc on the back. Of couse, it depends on the rider size and weight as well.foo on patrol wrote:I don't understand why, the managers would let them go out on a full dsc, when the wind was so bad?
Foo
It is pretty hair-raising to be flying along at 65km/h or better and be quite abruptly blown away from your intended line.
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby biker jk » Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:40 am
Your comments are somewhat naive. Team Sky are Discovery 2.0. Domestiques putting out 450 watts for half an hour on climbs as Basso said exasperated a few years ago. Valverde remarking that Team Sky were going uphill at the maximum you can climb. How can the others attack and not blow up? Just watch the TdF as if it's the World Wide Wresting Federation. Great entertainment...DavidS wrote:Isn't it great to see a team other than Sky on the front? The other teams need to stop sitting back and letting Sky set the pace, they need to take risks. Wonderful to see a team trying to disrupt Sky's tempo, you won't beat them if they are allowed to control the tempo.
It reminds me of Schleck going off the front on the penultimate mountain on a stage the year Cadel Evans won. He knew he needed to get time on Evans, he knew he couldn't get enough on one mountain. He took the risk and had a go. He gained time but not enough in the end. But he gave himself every chance to win by making risky moves, and it was a hell of a race because Schleck had a go and Evans fought back.
Can Quintana do something similar, is he willing to try? He's come second a couple of times, he needs to do more if he is to have any chance of winning.
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby AndrewCowley » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:56 am
Fine so attack on the downhill then. Like some guy named Froome did.biker jk wrote:Valverde remarking that Team Sky were going uphill at the maximum you can climb.
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby biker jk » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:52 pm
Yes, Froome's downhill attack gained him 23 sec, 10 of which were bonus seconds for winning the stage. So you're suggesting that the other GC contenders who are minutes behind should attack on the descents, having struggled to keep up on the climbs, to gain a handful of seconds on Froome (the GC guys aren't going to be allowed in the break)?AndrewCowley wrote:Fine so attack on the downhill then. Like some guy named Froome did.biker jk wrote:Valverde remarking that Team Sky were going uphill at the maximum you can climb.
Just enjoy the entertainment value of Froome and Team Sky's dominance. There's no need to introduce farce.
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby AndrewCowley » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:56 pm
We had farce already: Ventoux.biker jk wrote:Just enjoy the entertainment value of Froome and Team Sky's dominance. There's no need to introduce farce.
This year's Giro was boring until the 3rd week when it went mental. Hopefully the same will happen here. But again we've got a scenario where the TdF is shaping up as the year's most boring GT.
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby mikesbytes » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:49 pm
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby biker jk » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:57 pm
Apart from the 2014 Giro d'Italia...mikesbytes wrote:Froome has shown on this tour that he can attack, he can time trail and he can climb. Quintana doesn't have all of those and that's why he's unlikely to win a tour
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby Gerry.M » Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:31 pm
biker jk wrote:..
.Team Sky are Discovery 2.0. Domestiques putting out 450 watts for half an hour on climbs as Basso said exasperated a few years ago. Valverde remarking that Team Sky were going uphill at the maximum you can climb. How can the others attack and not blow up? Just watch the TdF as if it's the World Wide Wresting Federation. Great entertainment...
But but didn't doping end with Armstrong's admissions? Didn't it??
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby bigfriendlyvegan » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:46 pm
Even Andy Schleck won one tour.biker jk wrote:Apart from the 2014 Giro d'Italia...mikesbytes wrote:Froome has shown on this tour that he can attack, he can time trail and he can climb. Quintana doesn't have all of those and that's why he's unlikely to win a tour
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby biker jk » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:52 pm
Only because Contador was caught doping. Perhaps Quintana ends up winning two TdFs in similar circumstances...bigfriendlyvegan wrote:Even Andy Schleck won one tour.biker jk wrote:Apart from the 2014 Giro d'Italia...mikesbytes wrote:Froome has shown on this tour that he can attack, he can time trail and he can climb. Quintana doesn't have all of those and that's why he's unlikely to win a tour
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby warthog1 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:35 pm
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby warthog1 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:47 pm
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby DavidS » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:08 am
Discovery 2.0? I thought they were UK Postal.biker jk wrote:Your comments are somewhat naive. Team Sky are Discovery 2.0. Domestiques putting out 450 watts for half an hour on climbs as Basso said exasperated a few years ago. Valverde remarking that Team Sky were going uphill at the maximum you can climb. How can the others attack and not blow up? Just watch the TdF as if it's the World Wide Wresting Federation. Great entertainment...DavidS wrote:Isn't it great to see a team other than Sky on the front? The other teams need to stop sitting back and letting Sky set the pace, they need to take risks. Wonderful to see a team trying to disrupt Sky's tempo, you won't beat them if they are allowed to control the tempo.
It reminds me of Schleck going off the front on the penultimate mountain on a stage the year Cadel Evans won. He knew he needed to get time on Evans, he knew he couldn't get enough on one mountain. He took the risk and had a go. He gained time but not enough in the end. But he gave himself every chance to win by making risky moves, and it was a hell of a race because Schleck had a go and Evans fought back.
Can Quintana do something similar, is he willing to try? He's come second a couple of times, he needs to do more if he is to have any chance of winning.
DS
I understand what you are saying, and I do know about the way that better drugs allowed Armstrong to dominate. Maybe I'm just hopeful although I have said previously that I am more than suss of Sky. Day after day after day of sitting on the front of the peleton setting a pace no-one else can keep up with and maintaining this with 5 or 6 riders on the front every single day. All this against teams with very talented riders. I don't know how you combat this but I sure as hell don't think you combat it by sitting behind Sky and getting ridden out of the race. Maybe the rest of the teams need to take turns attacking Sky. Maybe their "preparation" is just that bit better than the others, like Armstrong's teams.
Can't agree it is entertaining and I do think the organisers of the TdF need to find a way to stop teams which just dominate for years on end because it makes for the least interesting grand tour each year. I certainly prefer the Vuelta.
I just hope someone does sort out a way to combat Sky, yet again we are questioning the results and one team is too dominant. Too much deja vu for my liking.
DS
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby g-boaf » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:01 am
Pretty awesome effort from the two of them.warthog1 wrote:Go der Panzerwagen
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby warthog1 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:26 am
Poor Alaphilippe was hanging on most of the way. Popped in the end I think, as did I. Woke on the couch at the finish.
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby richbee » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:38 am
Yes Live-wrong and his EPO fueled USPS team did just that, but before them?
Eddie Mercx and his hand picked teams at Faemino and Molteni who were well paid but with one goal only - protect Eddie? Nobody's suggesting they took anything stronger than the coffee supplied by the sponsor.
Big Mig Indurain putting minutes into everyone in the time trials then using his Banesto team to control the breaks everywhere else. I'm sure that was exciting to watch, much like paint drying. Yes we "know" he was doped to the gills because "wasn't everyone doing it" back then, but that's yet to be proven.
Hinault and Renault Elf Gitane? Surely they weren't dopers because well Bernie's still there on the tour podium every night. Maybe it was the F1 fuel Elf were using to power the mini Renault turbo engines hidden in the frames of the Gitane bikes. What about his tour winning margins, 3:56, 13:07, 14:34, 6:21. His last one might have only been 1:42, but he was helped by Greg Le Mond (Mr Clean) in that one, but Sky can only dream of a 14 minute winning margin. Oh, I nearly missed another dominant team - LaVie Claire formed from a dispute between The Badger and his former team.
So where am I going with this, well since the advent of trade teams in the early 60's, the tour has been dominated by one strong team, with the others picking up victories in the years between the fall of one dominant team and the rise of the next. St Raphael dominated from 62 to 64, Faemino and Molteni in the Mercx years (yes different teams but both hand picked by Eddie himself), Renault from 1978 to 1984 with LaVie Claire paying Le Mond a million dollars to leave Renault to support Hinault to create the next super team. They may well have gone on to win a few more tours had Greg not conspired to get himself hunted down by his brother in law.
Then Banesto with Big Mig, then seven years of no results between 1999 and 2005. Yes from 2006 to 2011 there was no one team dominating, but that's most likely because of the disruption, hand wringing and angst precipitated by the USPS dominance and teh fallout from Operation Puerto.
Now it's Sky's turn and all of a sudden it's like OMGosh it's USPS all over again. No gentlemen (and ladies) it is not, it is simply a return to the standard TdF format. As long at the tour is seen as THE race to win it will be so.
But fear not, Sky (being part of that very pro cycling Murdoch empire) will soon get bored of cycling and Brailsford will lose his funding, and when that does the next super team will be waiting to pick up and assert their own dominance.
Bets on the next dominant team? I'm putting my money on the Bahrain Cycling Team with their endless petrodollars in funding...
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby DavidS » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:51 pm
Sorry, but when one team dominates, given the history of cycling, I am suss.
DS
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby AndrewCowley » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:45 pm
True that history isn't ok Sky's side. However they are the only team today that has the budget to get enough riders who are good enough to sit on the front like this. That alone goes some way to explaining why they can do it when nobody else can.DavidS wrote:Aah ok, it's just normal for one team to be able to put 5, maybe 6, riders up the front stage after stage. Yes, it has happened before, a number of times. And, let's face it, last time they really were doping.
Sorry, but when one team dominates, given the history of cycling, I am suss.
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Re: 2016 Tour de France
Postby piledhigher » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:48 pm
True, that's what Postal/Discovery did, get the best riders due to a huge budget and give them undetectable marginal gains.AndrewCowley wrote:True that history isn't ok Sky's side. However they are the only team today that has the budget to get enough riders who are good enough to sit on the front like this. That alone goes some way to explaining why they can do it when nobody else can.DavidS wrote:Aah ok, it's just normal for one team to be able to put 5, maybe 6, riders up the front stage after stage. Yes, it has happened before, a number of times. And, let's face it, last time they really were doping.
Sorry, but when one team dominates, given the history of cycling, I am suss.
DS
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