2016 Tour de France

madmacca
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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby madmacca » Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:24 am

foo on patrol wrote:I don't understand why, the managers would let them go out on a full dsc, when the wind was so bad? :?

Foo


I think it was the ones running a tri spoke on the front that were getting into trouble, rather than the carbon disc on the back. Of couse, it depends on the rider size and weight as well.

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AUbicycles
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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby AUbicycles » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:13 pm

While Froome is not my favourite, the dedication to run in cleats rather than sit and wait is defication that not every rider would show.

I want to see more action, but yes, Froomey has done the hard yards.

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby biker jk » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:16 pm

AUbicycles wrote:While Froome is not my favourite, the dedication to run in cleats rather than sit and wait is defication that not every rider would show.

I want to see more action, but yes, Froomey has done the hard yards.


I prefer not to see any rider's defication....

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:19 pm

I've ridden in strong winds with a full rear disk and I don't find it a problem at all. True I weigh a bit more than they do and have a stronger upper body.

I noticed that most went for a shallow front and that was probably most sensible
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby DavidS » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:59 am

Isn't it great to see a team other than Sky on the front? The other teams need to stop sitting back and letting Sky set the pace, they need to take risks. Wonderful to see a team trying to disrupt Sky's tempo, you won't beat them if they are allowed to control the tempo.

It reminds me of Schleck going off the front on the penultimate mountain on a stage the year Cadel Evans won. He knew he needed to get time on Evans, he knew he couldn't get enough on one mountain. He took the risk and had a go. He gained time but not enough in the end. But he gave himself every chance to win by making risky moves, and it was a hell of a race because Schleck had a go and Evans fought back.

Can Quintana do something similar, is he willing to try? He's come second a couple of times, he needs to do more if he is to have any chance of winning.

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby g-boaf » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:25 am

madmacca wrote:
foo on patrol wrote:I don't understand why, the managers would let them go out on a full dsc, when the wind was so bad? :?

Foo


I think it was the ones running a tri spoke on the front that were getting into trouble, rather than the carbon disc on the back. Of couse, it depends on the rider size and weight as well.


Certainly noticed a few riders using more regular lower profile wheels instead of the 60+mm and rear disc combos.

It is pretty hair-raising to be flying along at 65km/h or better and be quite abruptly blown away from your intended line.

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby biker jk » Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:40 am

DavidS wrote:Isn't it great to see a team other than Sky on the front? The other teams need to stop sitting back and letting Sky set the pace, they need to take risks. Wonderful to see a team trying to disrupt Sky's tempo, you won't beat them if they are allowed to control the tempo.

It reminds me of Schleck going off the front on the penultimate mountain on a stage the year Cadel Evans won. He knew he needed to get time on Evans, he knew he couldn't get enough on one mountain. He took the risk and had a go. He gained time but not enough in the end. But he gave himself every chance to win by making risky moves, and it was a hell of a race because Schleck had a go and Evans fought back.

Can Quintana do something similar, is he willing to try? He's come second a couple of times, he needs to do more if he is to have any chance of winning.

DS


Your comments are somewhat naive. Team Sky are Discovery 2.0. Domestiques putting out 450 watts for half an hour on climbs as Basso said exasperated a few years ago. Valverde remarking that Team Sky were going uphill at the maximum you can climb. How can the others attack and not blow up? Just watch the TdF as if it's the World Wide Wresting Federation. Great entertainment...

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby AndrewCowley » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:56 am

biker jk wrote:Valverde remarking that Team Sky were going uphill at the maximum you can climb.


Fine so attack on the downhill then. Like some guy named Froome did.

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby warthog1 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:27 pm

:)

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby biker jk » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:52 pm

AndrewCowley wrote:
biker jk wrote:Valverde remarking that Team Sky were going uphill at the maximum you can climb.


Fine so attack on the downhill then. Like some guy named Froome did.


Yes, Froome's downhill attack gained him 23 sec, 10 of which were bonus seconds for winning the stage. So you're suggesting that the other GC contenders who are minutes behind should attack on the descents, having struggled to keep up on the climbs, to gain a handful of seconds on Froome (the GC guys aren't going to be allowed in the break)?

Just enjoy the entertainment value of Froome and Team Sky's dominance. There's no need to introduce farce.

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby AndrewCowley » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:56 pm

biker jk wrote:Just enjoy the entertainment value of Froome and Team Sky's dominance. There's no need to introduce farce.


We had farce already: Ventoux.

This year's Giro was boring until the 3rd week when it went mental. Hopefully the same will happen here. But again we've got a scenario where the TdF is shaping up as the year's most boring GT.

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:49 pm

Froome has shown on this tour that he can attack, he can time trail and he can climb. Quintana doesn't have all of those and that's why he's unlikely to win a tour
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby biker jk » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:57 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Froome has shown on this tour that he can attack, he can time trail and he can climb. Quintana doesn't have all of those and that's why he's unlikely to win a tour


Apart from the 2014 Giro d'Italia...

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby Gerry.M » Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:31 pm

biker jk wrote:..
.Team Sky are Discovery 2.0. Domestiques putting out 450 watts for half an hour on climbs as Basso said exasperated a few years ago. Valverde remarking that Team Sky were going uphill at the maximum you can climb. How can the others attack and not blow up? Just watch the TdF as if it's the World Wide Wresting Federation. Great entertainment...

:lol:
But but didn't doping end with Armstrong's admissions? Didn't it??

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby bigfriendlyvegan » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:46 pm

biker jk wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:Froome has shown on this tour that he can attack, he can time trail and he can climb. Quintana doesn't have all of those and that's why he's unlikely to win a tour


Apart from the 2014 Giro d'Italia...


Even Andy Schleck won one tour.

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby biker jk » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:52 pm

bigfriendlyvegan wrote:
biker jk wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:Froome has shown on this tour that he can attack, he can time trail and he can climb. Quintana doesn't have all of those and that's why he's unlikely to win a tour


Apart from the 2014 Giro d'Italia...


Even Andy Schleck won one tour.


Only because Contador was caught doping. Perhaps Quintana ends up winning two TdFs in similar circumstances...

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby warthog1 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:35 pm

Go der Panzerwagen 8)

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby warthog1 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:47 pm

Will be a damn good effort if they can make it. Warm day looks tough.

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby DavidS » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:08 am

biker jk wrote:
DavidS wrote:Isn't it great to see a team other than Sky on the front? The other teams need to stop sitting back and letting Sky set the pace, they need to take risks. Wonderful to see a team trying to disrupt Sky's tempo, you won't beat them if they are allowed to control the tempo.

It reminds me of Schleck going off the front on the penultimate mountain on a stage the year Cadel Evans won. He knew he needed to get time on Evans, he knew he couldn't get enough on one mountain. He took the risk and had a go. He gained time but not enough in the end. But he gave himself every chance to win by making risky moves, and it was a hell of a race because Schleck had a go and Evans fought back.

Can Quintana do something similar, is he willing to try? He's come second a couple of times, he needs to do more if he is to have any chance of winning.

DS


Your comments are somewhat naive. Team Sky are Discovery 2.0. Domestiques putting out 450 watts for half an hour on climbs as Basso said exasperated a few years ago. Valverde remarking that Team Sky were going uphill at the maximum you can climb. How can the others attack and not blow up? Just watch the TdF as if it's the World Wide Wresting Federation. Great entertainment...


Discovery 2.0? I thought they were UK Postal.

I understand what you are saying, and I do know about the way that better drugs allowed Armstrong to dominate. Maybe I'm just hopeful although I have said previously that I am more than suss of Sky. Day after day after day of sitting on the front of the peleton setting a pace no-one else can keep up with and maintaining this with 5 or 6 riders on the front every single day. All this against teams with very talented riders. I don't know how you combat this but I sure as hell don't think you combat it by sitting behind Sky and getting ridden out of the race. Maybe the rest of the teams need to take turns attacking Sky. Maybe their "preparation" is just that bit better than the others, like Armstrong's teams.

Can't agree it is entertaining and I do think the organisers of the TdF need to find a way to stop teams which just dominate for years on end because it makes for the least interesting grand tour each year. I certainly prefer the Vuelta.

I just hope someone does sort out a way to combat Sky, yet again we are questioning the results and one team is too dominant. Too much deja vu for my liking.

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby g-boaf » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:01 am

warthog1 wrote:Go der Panzerwagen 8)


Pretty awesome effort from the two of them.

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby warthog1 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:26 am

47 kmh for 160 or so k's :o
Poor Alaphilippe was hanging on most of the way. Popped in the end I think, as did I. Woke on the couch at the finish.

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby richbee » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:38 am

I'm amazed at the comments calling into question the results and tactics of certain riders and teams, claiming that this years race is the most boring ever, and a certain train couldn't possible be sitting on the front day after day without a special "preparation".
Yes Live-wrong and his EPO fueled USPS team did just that, but before them?
Eddie Mercx and his hand picked teams at Faemino and Molteni who were well paid but with one goal only - protect Eddie? Nobody's suggesting they took anything stronger than the coffee supplied by the sponsor.
Big Mig Indurain putting minutes into everyone in the time trials then using his Banesto team to control the breaks everywhere else. I'm sure that was exciting to watch, much like paint drying. Yes we "know" he was doped to the gills because "wasn't everyone doing it" back then, but that's yet to be proven.
Hinault and Renault Elf Gitane? Surely they weren't dopers because well Bernie's still there on the tour podium every night. Maybe it was the F1 fuel Elf were using to power the mini Renault turbo engines hidden in the frames of the Gitane bikes. What about his tour winning margins, 3:56, 13:07, 14:34, 6:21. His last one might have only been 1:42, but he was helped by Greg Le Mond (Mr Clean) in that one, but Sky can only dream of a 14 minute winning margin. Oh, I nearly missed another dominant team - LaVie Claire formed from a dispute between The Badger and his former team.
So where am I going with this, well since the advent of trade teams in the early 60's, the tour has been dominated by one strong team, with the others picking up victories in the years between the fall of one dominant team and the rise of the next. St Raphael dominated from 62 to 64, Faemino and Molteni in the Mercx years (yes different teams but both hand picked by Eddie himself), Renault from 1978 to 1984 with LaVie Claire paying Le Mond a million dollars to leave Renault to support Hinault to create the next super team. They may well have gone on to win a few more tours had Greg not conspired to get himself hunted down by his brother in law.
Then Banesto with Big Mig, then seven years of no results between 1999 and 2005. Yes from 2006 to 2011 there was no one team dominating, but that's most likely because of the disruption, hand wringing and angst precipitated by the USPS dominance and teh fallout from Operation Puerto.
Now it's Sky's turn and all of a sudden it's like OMGosh it's USPS all over again. No gentlemen (and ladies) it is not, it is simply a return to the standard TdF format. As long at the tour is seen as THE race to win it will be so.
But fear not, Sky (being part of that very pro cycling Murdoch empire) will soon get bored of cycling and Brailsford will lose his funding, and when that does the next super team will be waiting to pick up and assert their own dominance.
Bets on the next dominant team? I'm putting my money on the Bahrain Cycling Team with their endless petrodollars in funding...

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby DavidS » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:51 pm

Aah ok, it's just normal for one team to be able to put 5, maybe 6, riders up the front stage after stage. Yes, it has happened before, a number of times. And, let's face it, last time they really were doping.

Sorry, but when one team dominates, given the history of cycling, I am suss.

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby AndrewCowley » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:45 pm

DavidS wrote:Aah ok, it's just normal for one team to be able to put 5, maybe 6, riders up the front stage after stage. Yes, it has happened before, a number of times. And, let's face it, last time they really were doping.

Sorry, but when one team dominates, given the history of cycling, I am suss.

DS


True that history isn't ok Sky's side. However they are the only team today that has the budget to get enough riders who are good enough to sit on the front like this. That alone goes some way to explaining why they can do it when nobody else can.

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Re: 2016 Tour de France

Postby piledhigher » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:48 pm

AndrewCowley wrote:
DavidS wrote:Aah ok, it's just normal for one team to be able to put 5, maybe 6, riders up the front stage after stage. Yes, it has happened before, a number of times. And, let's face it, last time they really were doping.

Sorry, but when one team dominates, given the history of cycling, I am suss.

DS


True that history isn't ok Sky's side. However they are the only team today that has the budget to get enough riders who are good enough to sit on the front like this. That alone goes some way to explaining why they can do it when nobody else can.


True, that's what Postal/Discovery did, get the best riders due to a huge budget and give them undetectable marginal gains.

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