Australian National Titles

Ignoto
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Re: Australian National Titles

Postby Ignoto » Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:01 pm

RonK wrote:Surely would have to be serious embarrassment for OGE, the entire team defeated by a single rider. Didn't even make the podium - in fact I think Gerro was the only finisher.


I think Drapac should shoulder some of the blame as well. They had plenty of riders/support when OGE finally stepped up the pace, but I didn't see them really do too much time in the wind and simply allowed OGE to do all the work.

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Re: Australian National Titles

Postby Strawburger » Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:59 pm

Awesome ride by Bobridge. Reminded me of a similar ride by Cam Meyer when he lapped the field twice in a World Cup points race a few years ago. Thought he may have had a chance of catching the field at one point!

Great ride to by Louisa Lobigs in the women's race. Shame she couldn't hold on, did well recovering from the ditch too! I raced with her at Wagga Wagga last year, super strong and never skipped a turn.

...and still shaking my head at the effort of Milsotic. I really hope he starts slowing down soon :)
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cyclotaur
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Australian National Titles

Postby cyclotaur » Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:09 pm

RonK wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Great to see that OGE can no longer dominate such a race as they had been able to in the past.

Surely would have to be serious embarrassment for OGE, the entire team defeated by a single rider. Didn't even make the podium - in fact I think Gerro was the only finisher.

I wouldn't read too much into it - OGE and Drapac clearly figured on Bobridge starting to crack with at least 5 laps to go. He didn't and even put in a few sub 15 laps to put it beyond reach. If he'd eased up at all they'd have been all over him with 2-3 laps to go.

Gerro rode on pretty well for the same time as 4th. Bobridge gave it a good crack and it paid off perfectly.
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RonK
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Australian National Titles

Postby RonK » Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:21 pm

cyclotaur wrote:I wouldn't read too much into it - OGE and Drapac clearly figured on Bobridge starting to crack with at least 5 laps to go. He didn't and even put in a few sub 15 laps to put it beyond reach. If he'd eased up at all they'd have been all over him with 2-3 laps to go.

Gerro rode on pretty well for the same time as 4th. Bobridge gave it a good crack and it paid off perfectly.

In other words, OGE were trounced not just physically but tactically as well. A poor result from seven vs one.
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Re: Australian National Titles

Postby queequeg » Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:55 pm

Strawburger wrote:
...and still shaking my head at the effort of Milsotic. I really hope he starts slowing down soon :)


Yeah. I hope that too...he's MMAS3 now but hopefully he'll stay in Elite for a loooong time to give poor sods like me a chance.
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cyclotaur
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Re: Australian National Titles

Postby cyclotaur » Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:15 pm

RonK wrote:
cyclotaur wrote:I wouldn't read too much into it - OGE and Drapac clearly figured on Bobridge starting to crack with at least 5 laps to go. He didn't and even put in a few sub 15 laps to put it beyond reach. If he'd eased up at all they'd have been all over him with 2-3 laps to go.

Gerro rode on pretty well for the same time as 4th. Bobridge gave it a good crack and it paid off perfectly.

In other words, OGE were trounced not just physically but tactically as well. A poor result from seven vs one.

Yep - just shows team tactics aren't infallible. It only takes one Lone Ranger with nothing to lose (and the capability to deliver it) to beat a team riding to a plan and possibly with bigger fish to fry.

On this occasion the podium was filled by three guys essentially riding their own race, with 2nd and 3rd benefiting from OGE riding on the front of the peloton for most of the race. If they had thought Bobridge could ride away to the end they'd have had someone cover his move. Nobody was prepared to believe it until 2-3 laps out. Too late.

Bobridge didn't just beat OGE, he beat every other guy in the race.
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Re: Australian National Titles

Postby dalai47 » Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:57 am

GAV!N wrote:Only caught the last 20km and was a little bit disappointed to hear he had a 6 1/2 minute lead as it meant a relatively unexciting last 20km.


We must have been watching a different race to you.

It was absolutely compelling! Cameron was still a metronome in the chase and Bobridge was willing his legs each pedal stroke to turn just one more time. It was not guaranteed result till Bobridge finally crested the final KOM with a few minutes lead but still anything could have happened...

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Re: Australian National Titles

Postby foo on patrol » Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:58 am

Bobridge got himself into a sweet spot with his rhythm and that was evident from his times. Of course he still had to maintain it and then push through that pain barrier at the end. :idea:

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Derny Driver
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Re: Australian National Titles

Postby Derny Driver » Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:25 pm

RonK wrote:In other words, OGE were trounced not just physically but tactically as well. A poor result from seven vs one.

It wasnt 7, it was at best 5 OGE workers (Gerrans and Ewan were never going to pull a turn on the front) and you dont know how the 5 domestiques were feeling. If one was off his game or feeling a bit crook then you have 4 riders who are supposed to ride the front all day and control the race? That wouldnt be my tactic.

Last time I was DS for a team I told my boys every night not to get forced by other teams to do all the chasing. We put a guy in each day's break and we played poker every day. If other teams want to leave everything to us they can get stuffed and we will let the break go and let it win. Better that than allow other teams to milk us all day and then attack us when we are spent. Id rather see some young guy who had a go on the podium than the smart a$$ rival teams who wheel sucked wheels all race.

Im pretty sure OGE were quite happy to let Bobridge go, and when the other teams and other riders refused to help chase and tried to force 4 OGE suckers to do it all, then I can imagine Durbridge sitting up and saying "You can all get effed. We will let Jack win it". And they did.

Its just one race in the season for OGE. Plenty more and dare I say, more important ones. Sunday was a good time to set the tone and let everyone else know that just because they are the strongest team, that doesnt meant they are going to allow themselves to be milked in every event in 2016.

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Re: Australian National Titles

Postby foo on patrol » Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:46 pm

Exactly DD! I've, well did throw plenty of races due to the suckholds thinking I was going to drag them around. :twisted:

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Re: Australian National Titles

Postby RonK » Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:12 pm

Derny Driver wrote:Last time I was DS for a team I told my boys every night not to get forced by other teams to do all the chasing. We put a guy in each day's break and we played poker every day. If other teams want to leave everything to us they can get stuffed and we will let the break go and let it win. Better that than allow other teams to milk us all day and then attack us when we are spent. Id rather see some young guy who had a go on the podium than the smart a$$ rival teams who wheel sucked wheels all race.

Yes, OGE played poker too - they played a lousy hand and they lost. Are you seriously suggesting that OGE would expect one and two man teams to chase down the breakaway. Drapac had a man in the break, quite legitimately they weren't going to chase.

Derny Driver wrote:I can imagine Durbridge sitting up and saying "You can all get effed. We will let Jack win it". And they did.

Let Jack win? So you give Bobridge no credit, he won because OGE "let him win"? You do have a good imagination. But that is not what happened - far from "let him win", OGE busted their butts trying to catch him once they realised their tactic of bluff had failed.

Derny Driver wrote:Its just one race in the season for OGE. Plenty more and dare I say, more important ones.

So you say having one of their riders winning the national championship was not important to OGE? That would be astonishing if it were true.

Derny Driver wrote:Sunday was a good time to set the tone and let everyone else know that just because they are the strongest team, that doesnt meant they are going to allow themselves to be milked in every event in 2016.

Now that is a tactic which will guarantee they won't win.
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Re: Australian National Titles

Postby Derny Driver » Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:40 pm

RonK wrote: Are you seriously suggesting that OGE would expect one and two man teams to chase down the breakaway. .

Yes. Anyone who wishes to win the race must contribute to the chase.

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Re: Australian National Titles

Postby Derny Driver » Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:44 pm

RonK wrote:Let Jack win? So you give Bobridge no credit, he won because OGE "let him win"? .

OGE did not start the race wanting to not win. They obviously wanted to win. But they would have rather Bobridge win than some wheel sucker who profited from their work.
Bobridge was brilliant, no doubt, a deserving winner. Could OGE have pulled him back? I dont know. Not without help probably.

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Re: Australian National Titles

Postby Derny Driver » Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:46 pm

RonK wrote:So you say having one of their riders winning the national championship was not important to OGE? That would be astonishing if it were true.

As a trade team I think they would have bigger fish to fry. How much money / exposure does an Australian national jersey pull in Europe?
(Obviously they wanted to win the jersey - Gerrans said so. But they would have other bigger season goals)

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Australian National Titles

Postby cyclotaur » Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:50 pm

RonK I reckon you have it wrong - of course OGE didn't 'let JB win', just that his was an exceptional ride and no other rider OR team gave him a chance of staying away. When he confounded expectations with 2-3 laps to go those with a big interest in a podium finish had a crack for 2nd/3rd.

Bobridge and Meyer are both at new teams. Pat Lane also had something to prove, and they all had plenty to GAIN from a good finish.

National champs is an individual event really and it's not OGE's fault other teams didn't field bigger teams.

When they dominate such an event people moan 'it's not fair' and when they don't most of the same ones are first in line to bag them. Interestingly, few comments on OGE tactics in a successful women's event which was just as exciting but totally different.

Both were great races with deserving podiums.
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Re: Australian National Titles

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:59 pm

BMC also chased, and chased hard at times and cracked the field as well as themselves. OGE made little attempt to chase smartly, It was all one man on front for long periods riding tempo before blowing their load, rather than an organised paceline which is what was required and may have encouraged a few others to participate/contribute. The course is hilly but there are also plenty of km where paceline can work.

Keep in mind that when a member of dominant team (i.e. Gerrans) also refuses to pull a turn, then the incentive for others to contribute is diminished greatly. If Gerrans actually did some work, and they started some paceline riding then I suspect it might have been a different outcome. I think they believed they had enough horsepower with one out riding but they miscalculated.

OGE rode the race like they did the crit where they just maintained a high tempo on the front one man at a time and bored the buggery out of everyone. Their riders were knackered.

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Re: Australian National Titles

Postby petie » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:32 pm

Mmm, women's race was excellent to watch in real life. Tactics were well executed by all, and we're very engaging to watch.

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