Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby MichaelB » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:17 am
I would say, The problem I have here is the loss of confidence.
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+1
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby AUbicycles » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:19 pm
If Sky gad not delayed and cleared Froomes name sooner... this (if he was clean) would not have occurred... but now their tactics have backfired.
As a spectator... now it is a competition again.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby Thoglette » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:21 am
Tour de France organisers ASO have told Team Sky that Chris Froome will not be allowed to start in this year’s raceAUbicycles wrote:Well, that is news I welcome.
In breaking not-news Sky have recited the credendum of Froome's innocence and reached for the lawyers.Cycling news wrote: The ASO has cited article 28 of its rules, which "expressly reserves the right to refuse participation in - or to exclude from - the event, a team or any of its members whose presence would be such as to damage the image or reputation of ASO or the event."
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:35 pm
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby biker jk » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:45 pm
I guess Hinault and Froome have something in common then given the latter missed an out of competition test in dodgy circumstances. Speaking of hypocrisy, Sky are an egregious example having hired a known doping doctor and several ex-riders who doped, while professing their cleaner than clean status.Alex Simmons/RST wrote:What I found hilarious is the double standard by the ASO. They're happy to have many known dopers participate in their promotional activities. Hinault himself refused a doping test.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby biker jk » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:46 pm
Reading the press release it seems that WADA over ruled the UCI. Interesting. Of course we won't have the evidence which Froome used to explain his abnormal Salbutamol reading. Strange also that WADA informed the UCI on June 28 but the ASO wasn't told.
"In light of WADA’s unparalleled access to information and authorship of the salbutamol regime, the UCI has decided, based on WADA’s position, to close the proceedings against Mr Froome."
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby AUbicycles » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:03 pm
On 28 June 2018, WADA informed the UCI that it would accept, based on the specific facts of the case, that Mr Froome’s sample results do not constitute an AAF. In light of WADA’s unparalleled access to information and authorship of the salbutamol regime, the UCI has decided, based on WADA’s position, to close the proceedings against Mr Froome.
So what are the facts... are we cycling fans allowed to know why it was not a doping violation?
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby biker jk » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:07 pm
According to Brailsford, Froome's defence argued the test is faulty. So WADA agreed their own Salbutamol test is meaningless. A victory for clean cycling.AUbicycles wrote:On 28 June 2018, WADA informed the UCI that it would accept, based on the specific facts of the case, that Mr Froome’s sample results do not constitute an AAF. In light of WADA’s unparalleled access to information and authorship of the salbutamol regime, the UCI has decided, based on WADA’s position, to close the proceedings against Mr Froome.
So what are the facts... are we cycling fans allowed to know why it was not a doping violation?
“We said at the outset that there are complex medical and physiological issues which affect the metabolism and excretion of Salbutamol. The same individual can exhibit significant variations in test results taken over multiple days while using exactly the same amount of Salbutamol. This means that the level of Salbutamol in a single urine sample, alone, is not a reliable indicator of the amount inhaled. A review of all Chris’s 21 test results from the Vuelta revealed that the Stage 18 result was within his expected range of variation and therefore consistent with him having taken a permitted dose of Salbutamol."
Pettachi: 1352 ng/p/ml - 1 year suspension (2007)
Ulissi: 1900 ng/p/ml, 9 months suspension (2014)
Froome: 2000 ng/p/ml (already a suspect prednisolon case on his name) - gets cleared by UCI...
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby neild » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:18 pm
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:42 pm
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby Thoglette » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:07 pm
Didn't you read the article: There are "specific facts of the case", which we clearly don't need to know about. Afterall the UCI would like "reassure all those involved in or interested in cycling that its decision is based on expert opinions, WADA’s advice, and a full assessment of the facts of the case."AUbicycles wrote:So what are the facts... are we cycling fans allowed to know why it was not a doping violation?
Move along, there's nothing to see here, is the message.
Can't have a repeat of the Floyd Landis affair, which allowed the world to see that the whole process was botched* from beginning to end.
Despite FL rattling like a tin (as we now know).
*that's the polite version
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby AUbicycles » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:16 pm
https://www.wada-ama.org/en/media/news/ ... roome-case
Very interesting... it says that if an athlete exceeds, they can provide a controlled pharmacokinetic study (CPKS) to show that it is not a violation.
But Froome is exempt from the CPKS because the circumstances can't be recreated... it was not 'practicable'. Hence.. it is acceptable, even though it was not qualified under the rules they set.
Interesting comment in the release "chronic use of Salbutamol at varying doses over the course of weeks of high intensity competition"
So Froome is chronically using this which in such circumstances (elite multi-day racing) is also known to have a performance benefits. So... there is no problem when all of the data is released right?
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby Thoglette » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:49 pm
So the only reasonable reading is that the second word in your sentence is the "specific fact" of the case. I can't see any other explanation for tearing up the rule book.AUbicycles wrote:But Froome is exempt from the CPKS because the circumstances can't be recreated... it was not 'practicable'. Hence.. it is acceptable, even though it was not qualified under the rules they set.
The only question is : why? Does someone have incriminating photos of someone at WADA?
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby fat and old » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:35 am
One of the best interviews CN ever published I spat my coffee when I read that part, imagining those two in the back room of Floyd's shop stoned off their skulls.He could win five… Let him do it," Landis said, before both he and Horner broke out in uncontrollable laughter.
Viva Le Tour! Viva La Vuelta!!! I look forward to the reality show....Real Cyclists of Monaco
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby fat and old » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:43 am
Yet according to WADA, no appeal from them becausebiker jk wrote:According to Brailsford, Froome's defence argued the test is faulty. So WADA agreed their own Salbutamol test is meaningless. A victory for clean cycling.
“We said at the outset that there are complex medical and physiological issues which affect the metabolism and excretion of Salbutamol. The same individual can exhibit significant variations in test results taken over multiple days while using exactly the same amount of Salbutamol. This means that the level of Salbutamol in a single urine sample, alone, is not a reliable indicator of the amount inhaled. A review of all Chris’s 21 test results from the Vuelta revealed that the Stage 18 result was within his expected range of variation and therefore consistent with him having taken a permitted dose of Salbutamol."
?????"based on a number of factors that are specific to the case of Mr. Froome – including, in particular, a significant increase in dose, over a short period prior to the doping control, in connection with a documented illness; as well as, demonstrated within-subject variability in the excretion of Salbutamol – WADA concluded that the sample result was not inconsistent with the ingestion of inhaled Salbutamol within the permitted maximum dose."
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby MichaelB » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:15 am
“Crap. I can’t be bothered to read all 1,500 pages and besides, their lawyers are more expensive than ours, and I’ve got holidays soon.
Man, this is too hard.
Let’s just drop it.
Whaddya think?”
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby Thoglette » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:00 am
Still got to watch it. But CN nailed it with the subtitlefat and old wrote:The Floyd and Horner interview on CN is even funnier now...
'It's not about Froome, it's about the inconsistent application of the rules' says Landis
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby biker jk » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:00 am
https://mobile.twitter.com/offtheball/s ... 2104669184
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby familyguy » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:40 am
That.Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Ugh. I'm glad I don't take pro cycling too seriously.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby MichaelB » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:40 pm
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby queequeg » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:08 pm
If I read the actual rules, I think it says that it's an AAF if you go over the prescribed limit without demonstrating that it went over whilst still taking the allowed dosage.MichaelB wrote:So, can anyone explain to the layman, why throughout the race, Froomes salbutamol levels were OK and normal (i.e. below the AAF limit), yet one reading spiked double the limit, but that is now acceptable ?
Looking at the WADA response, I think they have essentially said that if they took an athlete who had taken a known dosage, and they tested that athlete, there is no consistency in the test results. The same athlete could take the same dose at the same time every day, and the test result would never show the same value. Hence, because the test is "dodgy", the result can't be used to show that the dosage taken was above the prescribed limit.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby Thoglette » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:16 pm
Fixed it for you.queequeg wrote:If I read the actual rules, I think it says that it's an AAF if you go over the prescribed limit without demonstrating that it went over whilst still taking the allowed dosage.
Looking at the WADA response, I think they have essentially said bugger the rules
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby MichaelB » Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:20 pm
But because they don’t/won’t/can’t etc, I call BS.
I can’t see how you can be below the limit for 20/21 days, and only one, go double the limit with exactly the same dose. Variation from one day to the next, but not double.
If that works s indeed the case, show us his previous (or anyone else’s, as there would be more than 1 athlete that takes it) data.
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