Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby find_bruce » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:03 pm
To be a performance based trigger you would need a test that's extremely sensitive, otherwise you end up with the same system as the hematocrit test, set the level too high & people dope with impunity right up to that level. Set it too low & innocent athletes can get rubbed out.
The other problem is the use of doping to aid recovery - we have all seen cyclists dig deep to win a stage & then pay for it the next day - if the good performance is within the range, the improvement in your bad day won't be detected.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:43 pm
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby AUbicycles » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:25 am
The amount of data and necessary time to process and evaluate being suggested in social media commentry as just buying time and discrediting this particular test.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby MichaelB » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:10 am
Love to know how much this has cost Sky (Legal $$) as well as damage to the brand.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby find_bruce » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:25 am
It is highly likely that any expert in the field will be familiar with (a) the work of other experts in their field & (2) the scientific publications. The real issue is usually the conclusions to be drawn from those publications.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby MichaelB » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:30 pm
Once they have done that, then they have to argue in court with handbags at 50 paces.
Eventually, they'll get tired and a decision will be made. Either way, the other side will appeal, and out come the experts again with their handbags, and it's worse than an 80% off sale at Jimmy Choo's !!
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:12 pm
The Critical Power Model as a Potential Tool for Anti-doping
Have been chatting online with a couple of the authors. It's complex and nuanced and without a strong grasp on the nature of the modelling parts of it will be a bit hard to comprehend for many, but it also has some pretty useful information summarising the critical power model for anyone interested.
I think it may spark further research but any form of inclusion of this methodology as a supplement to other data, e.g bio-passport, would be many years away, if ever. I still think there are too many hurdles but that's just my opinion.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby AUbicycles » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:14 pm
So did you get the all-clear or need another checkup?find_bruce wrote:I just checked an expert report I have used in relation to urine testing & that 1 report is 683 pages long - 14 pages of report setting out his opinion, 10 pages of CV & publications list, 659 pages of annexures being the scientific papers that formed the basis for his opinion.
All I will say is that I warned you about the asparagus.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby MichaelB » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:40 pm
Add Beetroot to that list as well. Can be a bit of a shock if you forget about it !!! But a big relief when you remember !!AUbicycles wrote: All I will say is that I warned you about the asparagus.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby find_bruce » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:35 pm
The horse was found not guilty, but the trainer got 2 yearsAUbicycles wrote:So did you get the all-clear or need another checkup?
All I will say is that I warned you about the asparagus.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby Thoglette » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:54 pm
Chris Froome has been denied fair process, says Lizzie Deignan
Nothing new : complaining that the results were leaked. (Fair enough).
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby biker jk » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:50 pm
Ah, Lizzie, she who missed three out of competition tests, one of which she hid in her hotel room, another for which she refuses to disclose the reason. And she talks about anti-doping needing to be more transparent.Thoglette wrote:Apparently,
Chris Froome has been denied fair process, says Lizzie Deignan
Nothing new : complaining that the results were leaked. (Fair enough).
All failed tests should be publicly announced, as should TUE's. If it weren't for Fancy Bears we would never have known that Wiggins used corticosteroids to win the TdF.
Froome's biography never mentioned he had asthma but soon after its publication he was spotted with a puffer. More transparency from Froome and Sky would be helpful.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby MichaelB » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:02 am
Really ........
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby AUbicycles » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:55 am
Yes and no. But really she should be complaining just to the hackers who stole / leaked the data and not to anyone else. Just because the public now know that Froome had positive doping tests and that the most obvious explanation is that he is guilty of cheating doesn't mean that the public are responsible for an 'unfair process' or that cycling fans and media are responding unfairly.“He hasn’t had a fair process because already people have made up their minds unfortunately, and that is not based on the full story,” Deignan said. “Unfortunately for Chris his reputation is tarnished and will be for ever. Whether he’s innocent or not, it’s kind of irrelevant to some people at this stage. A leak in a legal process should never happen.”
We know that the system is broken and as a (weary) cycling fan I don't see why failed tests need to be kept secret. I can understand that it is reasonable to create a small window - but allowing months and months and allowing competition after a failed test doesn't seem right.
As a professional athlete, testing is a necessary burden because too many people cheated in the past and too many people continue to cheat. The clean athletes have to pay the price but also should be proactive in supporting the anti-doping activities because it is meant to work to their own benefit by allowing fairer competition.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby biker jk » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:40 am
Lucky for him that he didn't lose the laptop containing the manuscript.MichaelB wrote:Seems like the innocent Dr Freeman is now publishing a book on "a new integrated performance health management and coaching model has supported some of our great sporting heroes in achieving their goals." .
Really ........
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby fat and old » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:28 am
It was covered, he had a dropbox to store it.biker jk wrote:Lucky for him that he didn't lose the laptop containing the manuscript.MichaelB wrote:Seems like the innocent Dr Freeman is now publishing a book on "a new integrated performance health management and coaching model has supported some of our great sporting heroes in achieving their goals." .
Really ........
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby MichaelB » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:04 pm
Probably had a printout, and that he had to retype it is why it took so long for it to come out .....fat and old wrote:It was covered, he had a dropbox to store it.biker jk wrote:Lucky for him that he didn't lose the laptop containing the manuscript.MichaelB wrote:Seems like the innocent Dr Freeman is now publishing a book on "a new integrated performance health management and coaching model has supported some of our great sporting heroes in achieving their goals." .
Really ........
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby biker jk » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:10 pm
I believe he had a Typing Up Exemption so had his PA type it.MichaelB wrote:Probably had a printout, and that he had to retype it is why it took so long for it to come out .....fat and old wrote:It was covered, he had a dropbox to store it.biker jk wrote:
Lucky for him that he didn't lose the laptop containing the manuscript.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby biker jk » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:25 pm
There was the parliamentary inquiry into Team Sky and the use of supposedly legitimate medicines, normally banned but permissible under a TUE system. Those investigating concluded that the team was using it for performance gains, to get an edge on others. Did that give you concern?
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, whenever there’s an inquiry and the allegations put forward are challenged by them, are rebutted by them, it’s almost sort of a script. ‘Ah, we’ve lost the data.’ Or, ‘the data has been misplaced,’ or ‘the data has been corrupted.’ I mean, for God’s sake, give me a break.
It is always the same response in any enquiry, and it’s just a joke. If people are legitimate about, let’s say TUEs or medical problems or medical diagnoses and supposed treatments, then show us the records.
Unless you have a communicable disease or a disease that the athletes have that’s embarrassing for them. But, if I’m an asthmatic, I don’t really care if someone else knows that I’m an asthmatic. Or if I have diabetes, I don’t care too much if someone else knows I have got diabetes.
And this thing of hiding behind the wall of privacy…it should be part of the athlete’s appointment charter, almost. That if you are going to go down the road of TUEs, be aware that you are going to have to make a public announcement that you are required to take these drugs because of this reason.
It’s a farce. It’s a farce.
https://cyclingtips.com/2018/06/casting ... parisotto/
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby find_bruce » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:04 pm
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby fat and old » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:58 am
http://www.velonews.com/2018/06/news/uc ... -tt_468897
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby AUbicycles » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:00 pm
Sounds like April 1st but there is still no clearcut approach by the UCI.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby DavidS » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:13 pm
DS
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:07 am
The suits used are not unique to Sky (they were not even the first to use them) and the ruling is consistent.DavidS wrote:Aerodynamic aids allowed on skinsuits for Sky but Gel not allowed for Lotto. Do they seriously wonder why people get upset about inconsistency?
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling
Postby fat and old » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:30 pm
Consistent with what Alex? Has there been other examples of a spray or paint on surface?Alex Simmons/RST wrote:The suits used are not unique to Sky (they were not even the first to use them) and the ruling is consistent.DavidS wrote:Aerodynamic aids allowed on skinsuits for Sky but Gel not allowed for Lotto. Do they seriously wonder why people get upset about inconsistency?
DS
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