Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby MichaelB » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:39 pm

twizzle wrote:So, brentono.... did you dope in your day?


Why even bother asking ..... 8)
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby brentono » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:52 pm

MichaelB wrote:
twizzle wrote:So, brentono.... did you dope in your day?


Why even bother asking ..... 8)


Yes, alcohol, very common in my day. Mostly after competitons.
Still on the banned list, though I never found it to have any Performance Enhancing effects.
If anything, if you drank before racing, you got pretty sluggish, maybe that was just me.
Other than that, there were limited drugs around, and I have stated my position,
aready on this site, Just Say No! which is what I did. Easy.
Was tested during my World Championships outing, and came up negative. 8)
(either of you two will never have to worry about it, though)

Very few people had directly related deaths, in those days from PED's
and the few (in Cycling) are well known.
The main and most common related deaths, in recent days, is from EPO's.
And most youth would have no access to this proceedure.
So I still will agree with the school of thought, that at this early stage in their lives, teens,
may be better seved, by medical supervision, for any these types of performance enhancing practices.
Better than sneeking around in Alleys or Toilets, or Sports Changerooms, as they do, now.
And be properly educated, as to the reasons for not doing it.
:mrgreen:
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:27 pm

brentono wrote:Yes, alcohol, very common in my day. Mostly after competitons.
Still on the banned list, though I never found it to have any Performance Enhancing effects.

Alcohol is not a prohibited substance in cycling.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby brentono » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:40 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
brentono wrote:Yes, alcohol, very common in my day. Mostly after competitons.
Still on the banned list, though I never found it to have any Performance Enhancing effects.

Alcohol is not a prohibited substance in cycling.


So that would be alright with you, (RUI=racing U.I.) then, Alex. :lol:
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:14 pm

brentono wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
brentono wrote:Yes, alcohol, very common in my day. Mostly after competitons.
Still on the banned list, though I never found it to have any Performance Enhancing effects.

Alcohol is not a prohibited substance in cycling.


So that would be alright with you, (RUI=racing U.I.) then, Alex. :lol:
:mrgreen:

This ongoing putting of words in my mouth is getting rather tedious.

I was simply correcting a factual error in your post. Alcohol is only prohibited in certain sport during competition (e.g. motor sports). That does not mean it is to be condoned or encouraged for use when cycling or competing.

All CA athletes & members have signed and agreed to the terms and conditions of membership, which includes a statement about the use of alcohol and other mind altering substances.

For those interested, this is the position statement from Cycling Australia on the use of ergogenic aids. It has a section specifically relating to junior athletes:
http://www.cycling.org.au/site/cycling/ ... 202009.pdf
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby brentono » Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:06 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:This ongoing putting of words in my mouth is getting rather tedious.

I was simply correcting a factual error in your post. Alcohol is only prohibited in certain sport during competition (e.g. motor sports). That does not mean it is to be condoned or encouraged for use when cycling or competing.

This ongoing putting of words in my mouth is getting rather tedious. And vise-versa. :wink:
I was never saying that we should just give in and allow doping, as you put it to me.
"Acknowledging the importance of rules in sports, which might include the prohibition of doping,
is, in itself, not problematic. However, a problem arises when the application of these rules
is beset with diminishing returns: escalating costs and questionable effectiveness."

You seem to be "bent out of shape" over Cheats, but that takes many forms, and is not
only involved with PED's. Ethics is a thing to be promoted with Sport (and everyday Life).

Talking of young athletes, and them being wrongfully influenced, you must take a look,
at the root-cause. Youth, and Top Level Sportspeople and two different animals.

My point about "Money" was if you follow the money you may find the origins.
Money is the Catalyst.
At the top, it is the incentives to chase the incomes, that go with the Glory.
At the bottom, it's the illegal moneys extracted from youth, by dealers.
(endangering their longterm health-accepted)
And in between it's the misuse of the funding, by an increasing bureaucracy,
which has become ineffective... and the problem just escalates.
Which is now becoming quite evident in "The War on Drugs"
Let's just leave it at that.
We may agree on some points, and agree to differ on other points.
Cheers 8)
:mrgreen:
As for the personal inference from certain members above, forum rules
do not allow me to respond accordingly. Alcohol was a red-herring.
(Ironic that on the road, socially, there is a threshold level, and it's illegal-
but the WADA allows it... and is unable to find threshold levels for most PED's :lol: )
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:08 am

I think every cyclist should have too give samples before the start of races and not after a race so that you know what his/her system was like before the start. Not just randomly of the top whatever finishers. :idea:
I don't suffer fools easily and so long as you have done your best,you should have no regrets.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:31 am

brentono wrote:The main and most common related deaths, in recent days, is from EPO's.
And most youth would have no access to this proceedure.
So I still will agree with the school of thought, that at this early stage in their lives, teens,
may be better seved, by medical supervision, for any these types of performance enhancing practices.
Better than sneeking around in Alleys or Toilets, or Sports Changerooms, as they do, now.
And be properly educated, as to the reasons for not doing it.
:mrgreen:

This might be the case in Australia, but not in some countries, including some where I coach.
It is a real problem. And guess who is propagating the problem? Former dope using elite cyclists who are advising and supplying the youngsters.

EPO is not an addictive substance, in the way heroin or amphetamines are. Accordingly the way in which we deal with it should not use the same techniques, IMO.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby brentono » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:57 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:This might be the case in Australia, but not in some countries, including some where I coach.
It is a real problem. And guess who is propagating the problem? Former dope using elite cyclists who are advising and supplying the youngsters.

EPO is not an addictive substance, in the way heroin or amphetamines are. Accordingly the way in which we deal with it should not use the same techniques, IMO.


It would be interesting to hear what countries outside Australia, with youngsters, that have EPO problems in Cycling. :?:

For those that wish to learn more, an interesting Medical Journal Paper, very concise,
and covers most of the ground I have been covering.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219897/
This review of doping within international sports is to inform
the international psychiatric community and addiction treatment professionals
of the historical basis of doping in sport and its spread to vulnerable athletic
and non-athletic populations.


HISTORICAL OVERVIEW OF DOPING
This brief overview suggests not only the historical and institutional nature of doping by athletes,
but also the international development of a clandestine and sophisticated distribution network
of black market doping programs that follows the modern sports industry.
Today performance-enhancing programs and drugs are not the exclusive province of elite athletes,
but have spread to health clubs, high schools and other at-risk populations,
creating an over $1.4 billion US dollar industry that is growing daily
as new compounds are synthesized and marketed


Human growth hormone (hGH and rhGH)
... Since hGH is a naturally-produced hormone and rhGH is similar in structure,
testing for doping with rhGH has been a technical challenge only recently solved
by WADA certified laboratories. Routine blood tests for hGH available
at clinical laboratories will not differentiate hGH from rhGH
and are of no value in determining if an adolescent or weekend athlete is doping.

... It is estimated that an eightweek performance enhancement regime of
pharmaceutical grade rhGH will cost about $2000,
well out of the range of an adolescent and the majority of weekend athletes.


Erythropoietin (EPO)
... EPO used for medical treatments can cost thousands of US dollars a month
and is administered by intravenous or subcutaneous injection.

... Over 300 tests were performed for EPO for the first time in Olympic history
(Sydney 2000) and no positives were reported.
This could be due to the fact that the technology for the test was new
and questions still existed about the assay.


Accepting the magnitude of doping in at-risk populations and developing education,
prevention and treatment programs is the only way we can prevent the continuing spread
of the abuse of doping in sport and its spread into the most fragile groups in our society,
our youth and at-risk populations.


Read this paper and become better informed.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby gdt » Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:39 am

brentono wrote:So I still will agree with the school of thought, that at this early stage in their lives, teens,
may be better seved, by medical supervision, for any these types of performance enhancing practices.
A medically-supervised doping programme isn't an answer. The quickest explanation would be the words "USSR weightlifter" or "Chinese swimmer".
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby brentono » Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:04 am

gdt wrote:
brentono wrote:So I still will agree with the school of thought, that at this early stage in their lives, teens,
may be better seved, by medical supervision, for any these types of performance enhancing practices.
A medically-supervised doping programme isn't an answer. The quickest explanation would be the words "USSR weightlifter" or "Chinese swimmer".

Nice shot from the hip. :lol:
Believe I said...
"better served, by medical supervision, for any these types of performance enhancing practices"
Be it for sport or image.

Try reading through the article I posted, and you may be better informed.
And the point I was making, was the same as the conclusion of the report.

Accepting the magnitude of doping in at-risk populations and developing education,
prevention and treatment programs is the only way we can prevent the continuing spread
of the abuse of doping in sport and its spread into the most fragile groups in our society,
our youth and at-risk populations.

:mrgreen:
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby MichaelB » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:06 pm

Ricco's new team thought he was about to line up for them, nut oh no, .....

tee hehehehe

Ricco suspened by CONI :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby JV911 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:29 pm

UK Anti-Doping have created an account on their anti-doping system for Tom Fordyce, a sports journo with the BBC. This means he's now subject to random drug testing and has to behave as an elite athlete with respect to doping, using the whereabouts system etc.

Here's the first post and he's going to post regularly of his experiences interacting w/ the system, so subscribe to his RSS feed if you're interested.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/tomfordyce/2 ... ystem.html

Andy Murray calls it "draconian". Rafael Nadal says it makes him "feel like a criminal". To anti-doping agencies around the world it's the most important weapon they have.

This is the "whereabouts" system, and I'm about to join it.

On Wednesday afternoon I was officially added to something called the National Registered Testing Pool, the first non-sportsman ever to be given such access. From now on I have to specify where I'll be for an hour a day, seven days a week, for up to three months in advance.

Why? So I am available for random out-of-competition tests. Why me? Because this is exactly what the 400 or so elite Olympians in Britain have to do, because it is the controversial heart of the fight against doping and because I want to see exactly how easy or onerous it is to stay on the right side of the system.

The first step, as for any athlete, is an induction session - sometimes run by their sport's governing body but often by UK Anti-Doping. I am met by Eliot Caton, athlete support officer at UKAD, and handed a red folder. Inside are user guides, log-in details and some very important contact numbers.

Eliot explains the principles: how the anti-doping programme works, the role whereabouts plays and my responsibilities as an elite athlete within it.

This is where it gets interesting. On a computer programme called Adams (Anti-Doping Administration and Management System), I must submit a mountain of information: my residence for every day in that month, whether home address, hotel or friends'; my full training schedule for every day; where I'll be competing - dates, venues, times - and where and when my one-hour slot will be.

The programme itself looks a little like Microsoft Outlook, albeit initially less intuitive and a little more fiddly. There is a clickable daily calendar, contacts section and area for direct messages. I have a unique username and password which means only UKAD and I can access my information.

Eliot's job is to make sure every athlete is comfortable with using Adams. Step by step he shows me how to upload the key details of my diary to the system.

It takes time. For every address I might stay at overnight I have to input full details - not just the name and street, but specific instructions - ring top doorbell, blue door on left, code for front gate etc.

If you spend your entire life in one place it wouldn't take very long. But sportsmen don't. Neither do sports journalists. In the next month I know I'll be in Southampton for the third Test against Sri Lanka, Wimbledon for the tennis, my Mum and Dad's for a weekend away, a stag-do in London and a hotel or two for other work trips. That's a lot of addresses.

Then there are the training venues. I am a long, long way from being an elite athlete, but I do train most days. At the moment that means bike rides, swimming and gym sessions. On each day in the online diary I have to say where I'll be training, at what times, and how I can be found.

Doing that a week in advance is hard. Doing a full month is even harder. Athletes will have a more structured schedule than me, but they still need to be extremely specific. If at, say, Lee Valley High Performance Centre, are they likely to be in the weights room, the indoor track or the outdoor track?

At the moment I'm cycling three times a week. One of those will be intervals in Richmond Park. Easy enough to input, although harder to say where I'll be in the park or on what loop. Another will be a long ride into the Surrey Hills, 80-ish miles spread over four or five hours. Which route am I likely to choose? Where will I be on it?

It's not quite as severe as it sounds. I won't be penalised if I'm not at those training venues when I say I am, and it won't count as a missed test, although if I'm consistently not where I should be it will trigger suspicions.

The key part is that one hour window. Between 0600 and 2300, seven days a week, I must specify where and when that window will be. I must be at that location for the full hour. If I'm not, and the testers come calling, it'll count as a missed test. Three missed tests in an 18-month period means an anti-doping suspension, just like the one handed out to Christine Ohuruogu in the system's infancy back in 2006.

How hard is it? Murray and Nadal have not been the only sportsmen to complain. Pete Gardner, chief executive of the British Athletes Commission (BAC), claimed some athletes would retire rather than risk a ban through accidentally missing tests.

Last month the European Elite Athletes Association, which represents 25,000 sportsmen and women across the continent, claimed they had hundreds of members ready to say their human rights had been invaded by this imposition on their privacy. Even on Wednesday, British 100m hurdles record holder Tiffany Ofili was Tweeting: "My Adams is soooo confusing. It frustrates me every time!"

First, the philosophy. UKAD - and world governing body Wada - would say it is a small price to pay for keeping cheats out of sport. We need to believe in the performances we see, to trust that out heroes are exactly that. The out-of-competition tests the whereabouts system provides are as good a guarantee as we can currently get. For the sportsmen involved, this is their chance to prove that they are clean.

Now the practicalities. Specifying that hour is not quite as tricky as you might first think. Many sportsmen go for an early hour - say, 0630 to 0730 - knowing they will be at home in bed.

What if your plans change? What if you suddenly go away for a competition, or stay at your partner's house, or have to see the physio for treatment to an injury rather than being at home when you thought?

It shouldn't be a problem. You can now change that specified hour up to 60 seconds before it is due to start, by sending a text message, phoning a dedicated number or by going online and accessing Adams.

Neither do you have to wait till quite that late. At any point you can go into Adams, or use those other numbers, to adjust your hour for any day in the forthcoming three months.

Should you forget to input your details, or struggle to use the system properly, the education officers are on hand 24/7 to help out. They'll even keep an eye on your Adams and send you a message if it looks like you've neglected to put the right information - for example, if you're off to Spain to represent GB in an event and haven't tweaked your schedule to reflect that. Even on Wednesday night I received a text message gently warning me that my own details in Adams were incomplete and needed updating.

How will I get on? Will the system prove a piece of cake or completely unpalatable? Will it become second nature or last-gasp panic? Will I update and input as I should, or lose track and find myself on the brink of a ban?

I'll be tweeting on @tomfordyce and blogging here regularly with updates throughout the weeks ahead. In that time I'll also be speaking to sportsmen and anti-doping officials to find out how they think the system is working, how it might be improved and what challenges, legal or otherwise, lie ahead.

In the meantime I need to get onto Adams. I've got some serious data inputting to do.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby AUbicycles » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:06 am

The most tested journalist!

Perhaps someone else knows better.. but is the advantage of knowing the exact address where an athlete is (or will be) a way of checking against a black list... or to track an athlete for an unannounced test?
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby jules21 » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:40 am

AUbicycles wrote:Perhaps someone else knows better.. but is the advantage of knowing the exact address where an athlete is (or will be) a way of checking against a black list... or to track an athlete for an unannounced test?

the latter, i'd say. you can't test them if you don't know where they are - i believe this led to farcical situations before mandatory reporting by athletes.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby brentono » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:48 am

ADAMS is part of the Systems, but next step would be for a Journo to
go through the FULL Passport system, even more rigorous. :wink:
(checking the stability of your whole body function system)
:mrgreen:
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby jules21 » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:09 am

brentono wrote:ADAMS is part of the Systems, but next step would be for a Journo to go through the FULL Passport system, even more rigorous. :wink:

there's nothing for the journo to go through there. the biological passport is merely an analytical tool used by the UCI(/WADA?) a journo would only "experience" it if they were prosecuted for suspicious blood levels. for the journos i've known, that seems quite a possibility, but not for performance enhancing drugs :wink:
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby brentono » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:28 pm

AUbicycles wrote:The most tested journalist!

Perhaps someone else knows better.. but is the advantage of knowing the exact address where an athlete is (or will be) a way of checking against a black list... or to track an athlete for an unannounced test?


Latter :|
No Advance Notice: A Doping Control which takes place with no advance
warning to the Athlete and where the Athlete is continuously chaperoned
from the moment of notification through Sample provision.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby brentono » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:51 pm

jules21 wrote:
brentono wrote:ADAMS is part of the Systems, but next step would be for a Journo to go through the FULL Passport system, even more rigorous. :wink:

there's nothing for the journo to go through there. the biological passport is merely an analytical tool used by the UCI(/WADA?) a journo would only "experience" it if they were prosecuted for suspicious blood levels. for the journos i've known, that seems quite a possibility, but not for performance enhancing drugs :wink:


You're probably right, and if their profession held any standards these days :roll:
they should all be drug-tested before their allowed to write a line. :lol:

For the info of all.
Athlete Biological Passport and ADAMS

Members will also be given a detailed insight into the Athlete Biological Passport (ABP),
its purpose as a successful means for effective targeting,
and the need for ABPs to be incorporated into ADAMS
(Anti-Doping Administration and Management System).

The ABP Program was approved by the WADA Foundation Board in 2009
and has shown to be a successful means of identifying possible anti-doping rules violations.
As such, WADA continues to advise its stakeholders on the requirements to establish ABP programs.

“We have seen how effective the ABP can be, and WADA will be encouraging
all its signatories to increase the number of blood tests included in their programs.

“Not only is it vital for ABPs, but there are prohibited substances
that can only be identified through blood testing.” Mr. Howman stated.


ABP methods with more stringent Haematological Module, has the ability in identifying
rare Prohibited Substances and also new Prohibited Methods.
There are many Athletes registered on ADAMS worldwide,
for the ones under the ABP Program, (Athlete Biological Passport) it's quite stringent,
even more rigorous testing on the individual (to the point of draconian, has been mentioned)
that was the significance of my original statement.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby JV911 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:18 am

Riders returning from suspension won't count for teams

The UCI is on the brink of implementing new rules which will limit the sporting value of riders returning from doping suspension, it announced today.

The new anti-doping initiative will prevent teams from benefitting from hiring riders fresh off suspension - riders such as Alejandro Valverde - by not allowing those riders to accumulate points toward a team's sporting value for two years after their return to competition.

more: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-set ... initiative
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby twizzle » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:42 am

JV911 wrote:Riders returning from suspension won't count for teams

The UCI is on the brink of implementing new rules which will limit the sporting value of riders returning from doping suspension, it announced today.

The new anti-doping initiative will prevent teams from benefitting from hiring riders fresh off suspension - riders such as Alejandro Valverde - by not allowing those riders to accumulate points toward a team's sporting value for two years after their return to competition.

more: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-set ... initiative


Hmmm.... isn't this just punishing the riders twice? Sounds like a work-around to try and lengthen (in effect) suspension periods.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby jules21 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:08 pm

twizzle wrote:Hmmm.... isn't this just punishing the riders twice? Sounds like a work-around to try and lengthen (in effect) suspension periods.

and the problem is? :D
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby JV911 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:54 pm

Armstrong clash to be scrutinised

THE FBI is seeking surveillance video of Lance Armstrong's confrontation with a former teammate, who has accused him of doping, to ascertain whether it constitutes witness tampering.

Security footage has been requested from a Colorado restaurant where the chance meeting that is now making international headlines occurred between the seven time Tour de France champion and Tyler Hamilton. According to The New York Times, the US federal authorities that are scrutinising Armstrong and doping-related activity in cycling want to review the pair's exchange last Saturday night.

Hamilton testified in a US probe last year and recently went public with claims Armstrong used performance-enhancing drugs. Through lawyers, he has claimed he was berated by Armstrong in a French restaurant the cycling legend frequents.

Advertisement: Story continues below Hamilton's lawyer said: "Would you feel threatened if someone said to you, 'We're going to destroy you on the witness stand and we're going to make your life a living hell?'''

Armstrong's representatives, and a co-owner of the restaurant, have described the encounter as a non-event.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby MichaelB » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:30 pm

jules21 wrote:
twizzle wrote:Hmmm.... isn't this just punishing the riders twice? Sounds like a work-around to try and lengthen (in effect) suspension periods.

and the problem is? :D


+1 from me.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby heay » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:45 pm

Had to laugh when I saw this today... :D

Looks as not only the French public not like him, but alos the local police have a problem with him riding with no lights. Great to see that he is not above the law when it comes to road safety. he he he....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/police-interrupt-contadors-tour-de-france-recon
heay
 
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