Dauphine 2017 !!

User avatar
MichaelB
Posts: 8134
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby MichaelB » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:00 am

Just watched De Ghent win the 1st stage last night (recorded it from SBS), and man, he monstered that final climb !!!

Will be interesting to see how the mountain stages pan out given the big guns that were there.

Had to laugh at some of the commentary about Nibali's brother's descending skills. He needs some coaching !!!

User avatar
biker jk
Posts: 5748
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby biker jk » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:10 pm

Mont du Chat climb tonight. 8.7km (AT) 10.3%. The descent after the climb is on narrow roads but not too technical. Still, a poor descender could undo all their good work on the climb. Looking forward to this stage.

User avatar
MichaelB
Posts: 8134
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby MichaelB » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:32 am

Great stage last night and great result.

Pity Richie had the door closed a bit, but showed he is doing well. Hoping for a good Tour

User avatar
cyclotaur
Posts: 1389
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:36 pm

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby cyclotaur » Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:59 am

MichaelB wrote:Great stage last night and great result.

Pity Richie had the door closed a bit, but showed he is doing well. Hoping for a good Tour

Ditto - great stage, and loving the times of the Dauphine stages, not having to stay awake 'til all hours to see the finish.

Also Froome underpassed Porte on the descent at about 80kph. :shock:
I guess he goes downhill fractionally faster than Porte but, wow, it seemed just a tad unnecessary/reckless at the time...
Here's my blog - A bit of fun :)
"Riding not racing...."

User avatar
find_bruce
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby find_bruce » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:14 pm

I liked Porte's response to questions about Froome holding his line for the sprint "I just asked him if he was looking at his stem"

User avatar
biker jk
Posts: 5748
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby biker jk » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:20 pm

find_bruce wrote:I liked Porte's response to questions about Froome holding his line for the sprint "I just asked him if he was looking at his stem"


Yes, I had at giggle at that. So, a good opportunity to re-run the link below.

http://chrisfroomelookingatstems.tumblr.com/

User avatar
MattyK
Posts: 2232
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:07 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby MattyK » Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:26 pm

Good race tonight.

One dumb question from me. I've heard commentators say (in multiple tour races) about how it's good for their team/GC rider to have someone in the breakaway. But tactically I'm not getting it. Can someone explain why it's a good thing?

User avatar
find_bruce
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby find_bruce » Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:12 am

Teams use it in a number of different situations - the old "We have a rider in the break so we are not helping to chase it down" excuse. Last night though both Cannondale & AG2R used it - Talansky & Bardet attacked from the main group, Clarke & Vuillermoz dropped back from the break. The idea as I understand it was to work together on the plateau. Clarke for example is an OK climber, but (1) he doesn't have the acceleration to get away from the main group & (2) it is much harder for two teammates to break away.

User avatar
MichaelB
Posts: 8134
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby MichaelB » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:07 am

Another great stage and some great attempts from others to gain time (Talansky & Bardet), but also great to see Froome in trouble and see Richie doing well.

Interesting to see how the others are going and the psyche games that are now being played and wondering what they have to do.

Many of the key players were isolated pretty early on, but the ORS guys still had some good numbers for a while.

Hope that Richie wins this, but then has a good showing in the Tour as well. Good signs from some of the other BMC contingent to lead Richie fro as long as they did & Hermans did a great job.

Roll on July !!!

User avatar
RonK
Posts: 9618
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Contact:

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby RonK » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:16 am

I know winning the Dauphine is considered to be the form indicator of the potential TDF winner, but with the apparently effortless way he is riding I can't help but think Porte may have peaked too soon compared to Froome, Contador et al.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

madmacca
Posts: 340
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:13 pm

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby madmacca » Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:43 pm

MattyK wrote:Good race tonight.

One dumb question from me. I've heard commentators say (in multiple tour races) about how it's good for their team/GC rider to have someone in the breakaway. But tactically I'm not getting it. Can someone explain why it's a good thing?


In addition to the "We've got a rider in the break, so we're not chasing" excuse mentioned above, it can be useful if you have 2 major climbs separated by a long (20 km?) valley floor. Put a larger more powerful rider in the break, let your GC rider take it 30 seconds easier than his rivals up the first climb, have the rider in the break drop back on the descent of the 1st climb and do all the work chasing back on along the valley floor, and then your GC rider still has something in the tank for the final climb.

AndrewCowley
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:57 am

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby AndrewCowley » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:21 pm

Wow. No words. One of the best few days of racing I've seen.

I suppose Porte has to be positive after beating Froome. But yet again he has suffered from one of his all too usual "bad days". Notwithstanding his form does look great, this is an ongoing weakness for him.

User avatar
cyclotaur
Posts: 1389
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:36 pm

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby cyclotaur » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:35 am

Yep, a great race at the end. I don't think it was a 'bad day' from Porte - he paced himself when the others attacked (being isolated without support) and rode back into contention on the final climb, where he would have had one of the fastest (if not THE fastest) times.

Fulsang beat him by 10 seconds only, with the advantage of 14 more bonus seconds than Porte on the last two stages, and if Foome hadn't nearly put him into the barriers on the final sprint the previous day and he'd won the stage the diff would have only been 2 seconds at the end. OK he doesn't win the CdDauphine, but I still think he's in good form compared to the main contenders for le TdF. And I'm not sure that Fulsang is in that group.

It's a great event, the Dauphine.
Here's my blog - A bit of fun :)
"Riding not racing...."

madmacca
Posts: 340
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:13 pm

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby madmacca » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:56 am

AndrewCowley wrote:Wow. No words. One of the best few days of racing I've seen.

I suppose Porte has to be positive after beating Froome. But yet again he has suffered from one of his all too usual "bad days". Notwithstanding his form does look great, this is an ongoing weakness for him.


I was pleased to see that Porte didn't panic, and held to his plan even when Froome accelerated with 1km to go on the 2nd last climb. This shows increased mental strength not weakness, and meant that Porte was able to take time on everyone in the final climb, with the exception of Fuglsang, whom he held.

The bigger concern was that Porte was isolated from his teammates so early, and meant that Porte had to do a lot of the work himself for a good part of the day. Although I note that with their two major sponsors (BMC and TagHeur) both being Swiss, BMC are also having to supply a strong team to the simultaneous Tour de Suisse (nice performances from Dennis and King in the ITT). Rival teams may have been able to target one race or the other.

I'll be interested to see BMC's team selection for the Tour, although with 2 potential stage winners (Dennis and GvA) as well as Porte, they are going to have to be very clear as to who is the protected rider.

Edit: Cyclotaur, you and I see it pretty much the same way. I had had also been thinking that the narrow space between Froome and the barriers cost him 8 seconds of time bonus.

User avatar
MichaelB
Posts: 8134
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby MichaelB » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:26 pm

Bugger about the final result, but great stage and even greater race overall.

Nice to see Dan Martin get on the podium at expense of Froome.

Whilst he may have peaked too soon, the mental advantage that he has on others where he solidly beat them several days in a row must be good.

His ride last night reminded me of Cadel's in the 2011 TdF. Mentally and physically tough. Did the last climb a minute better than most of the others. Chapeau !!

User avatar
cyclotaur
Posts: 1389
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:36 pm

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby cyclotaur » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:44 pm

I agree - BMC had their 'B' team at the Dauphine so Porte was always going to struggle for support. Commitments to other races mean all the big GC teams basically put their TdF contender plus a 'B' team into the Dauphine. It wasn't much different for Froome, Contador, Valverde etc

I think Porte and BMC would be very pleased with his ride on the last two days. Further I would think he rode to (training) plan to not chase on the second last climb and put in a solid finish on the final. Which he did very well. Sets him up very well, physically and mentally, for TdF. :wink:
Here's my blog - A bit of fun :)
"Riding not racing...."

User avatar
AUbicycles
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 12391
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby AUbicycles » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:38 pm

Brilliant ride - super impressed by Portes climb and if Fugelsang hadn't of gone off the front then he would have had it.

Unfortunately I didn't get the coverage to see why Porte was so far behind so both live and on reply only gave me the end rather than highlights.

Sharkey
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:32 pm

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby Sharkey » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:48 am

AUbicycles wrote:Unfortunately I didn't get the coverage to see why Porte was so far behind so both live and on reply only gave me the end rather than highlights.


On the 2nd last climb Aru and Valverde attacked and got away. Then Martin, Fuglsang and Bardet attacked individually and also got a break. Porte was covering Froome as he was the main danger for the overall. When Contador attacked with a couple of others Porte then took up the chase with Froome sitting on his wheel. When Froome attacked towards the top Porte had nothing left and so he ended up well behind the others.

User avatar
AUbicycles
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 12391
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby AUbicycles » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:21 pm

Thanks for that - concise but I can picture it vividly!

User avatar
RonK
Posts: 9618
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Contact:

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby RonK » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:56 pm

Hard to believe Porte "had nothing left" on the Col de la Columbiere considering how strongly he climbed to the final on the Plateau de Solaison even after being forced to time trial unaided along the valley floor.

Seems more like a tactical error to me, combined perhaps with an overly cautious descent, and certainly exposed his lack of support.

Fuglsang was always a greater threat than Contador and had already shown his form by winning stage 6 over the Mont du Chat. Porte should have covered him immediately rather than waiting until Bertie attacked.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

Sharkey
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:32 pm

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby Sharkey » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:48 pm

He commented that he was right on the edge of being in the red. Froome was following so still had something left. When he went Richie could do nothing without really going in the red. So maybe not 'nothing left' but could not follow without really going in the red.

I guess if he had tried to follow Froome then he possibly would have had nothing left for the final climb.

And I don't think it was that Contador was seen as a danger, just at that point Richie realised there was a significant group getting away that he needed to chase.

User avatar
RonK
Posts: 9618
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Contact:

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby RonK » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:36 pm

I will say it again - Fuglsang was only a few seconds behind Froome and had the form in the board. Porte should have covered him.

BMC have shown over and over that they don't have the tactical nouse to beat Sky and have failed repeatedly to support Porte as a team. Last year they didn't even send any riders back to help Porte when he crashed.

Froome and Contador won't peak until the middle of the TDF. On this performance I suspect Porte will be past his peak by then. Whatever, BMC will need smarter tactics to win.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

User avatar
DavidS
Posts: 2275
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:24 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby DavidS » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:26 pm

BMC do need to learn to support their leader better, that said I think Porte must be a good chance for the Tour. Let's hope they pick the right team and Porte is given the support a contender needs, when they didn't support him after the crash last year I was gobsmacked.

DS
Image

Cannondale Quick Speed 2, Allegro T1

User avatar
find_bruce
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby find_bruce » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:50 pm

I can't see Richie Porte wining the TdF. He is a very talented bike rider and sure the answer this year might be that he peaked too early, but I think he falls into that terribly difficult category of just not quite good enough.

I would love to be wrong

User avatar
cyclotaur
Posts: 1389
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:36 pm

Re: Dauphine 2017 !!

Postby cyclotaur » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:45 am

I think Porte is 'luckless' in the same way Evans was but can win TdF if he accepts team support is problematic and calculates his efforts accordingly and things go his way. Evans' win was like a Hawthorn flag in the 80s - not always the best team out there, but ready every year to take the win if no-one else was up to it.

So for Porte - First avoid trouble, second take support when it's available, third make your own calculations and decisions when unsupported and live with them.

If Porte rides consistently and goes with the big guns I think he can win, as long as there is no other 'bolt from the blue' rider/team.
Here's my blog - A bit of fun :)
"Riding not racing...."

Return to “International and National Tours and Events”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users