2017 Tour de France

CycloTron
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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby CycloTron » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:41 am

Hmmn, the race jury seem to have different standards for different riders...

Sagan must be livid.

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MichaelB
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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby MichaelB » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:09 pm

Hoping for a couple of good and action packed stages (good racing and not stacks that is) coming up.

Hoping I can stay awake for these two !!

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby gtext » Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:10 pm

Firstly just pointing out that I understand squat about racing and the strategies. Gradually learning but not to compete just understand.
In yesterday's what does someone like Bodnar in the breakaway gain while getting beaten a few hundred meters from the line. Other than the the midway points
Doesn't his performance leading from the start with only assistance from two others during the stage while those in the peloton gain from being in a bigger group show him being stronger. Seems like the odds were always against him. I guess he did get some good exposure on TV though.

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AUbicycles
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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby AUbicycles » Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:28 pm

CycloTron wrote:Hmmn, the race jury seem to have different standards for different riders...


Isn't that unusual. Again it is like the 2010 Tour de France where Mark Renschaw had his famous headbutt during the sprint and was thrown out while Rui Costa and Carlos Barreda had a full-on punch-up and were both fined 400 Swiss Francs each.




Stage 11 was exciting towards the end with the breakaway that almost made. Michael Matthews was closed in on the barrier and if his name was Mark Cavendish, he could have forced the gap and got into trouble... But the team tactics of Sky make it tedious when every single contender is immediately shut-down.

Looking at the GC list, I would like to see Jakob Fuglsang steal the show in the mountains.


------

Regarding the question from gtext on breakaways, particularly for stages where it is 'a given' that the peloton will catch-up and there will be a sprint finish.
1) There is always a chance. If the Peloton misjudges, then the breakaway riders may have enough time and occasionally a rider or group can beat the peloton.
2) Sponsors get a rider in focus - particularly when there are individual efforts.

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:05 am

Ok Fuglsang didn't make it.... but it looks like Aru has yellow... hopefully ... makes it interesting.

Nice win by Bardet... well deserved.

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby Red Rider » Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:10 am

So now we see what you need to beat Sky & Froome: crampons.

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Chuck
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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby Chuck » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:21 am

Nice work from the "token" French guy.
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RonK
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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby RonK » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:38 am

Chuck wrote:Nice work from the "token" French guy.

I was thinking exactly that too.

And just in time for Bastille Day.
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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby RonK » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:55 am

If they weren't already before, the jury's decisions have now become farcial. Bennett and Uran given time penalties for accepting water from spectators.

George Bennett slams Tour de France time penalty
Last edited by RonK on Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby biker jk » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:14 am

RonK wrote:If they were already before, the jury's decisions have now become farcial. Bennett and Uran given time penalties for accepting water from spectators.

George Bennett slams Tour de France time penalty


Farcical but nothing surprises me after Froome the running man was never penalised on Ventoux.

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby CycloTron » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:56 am

Interesting stage last night.

I'm now even more interested in tonight's stage - for me, it will confirm in my own mind RE: Froomey's form. He might still get there, but perhaps not as dominant as previous years.

I'm quietly barracking for Uran to go all the way.

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby AndyRevill » Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:20 am

biker jk wrote:[

Farcical but nothing surprises me after Froome the running man was never penalised on Ventoux.


Serious question because I don't know the answer: What rule did he break in doing that? My understanding is you can cross the line on foot as long as you are carrying your bike, but is there a rule that a rider can't progress his position on the road while waiting for the team car? It seems to me, in reality all he gained from that exercise was a YouTube career, it did nothing to help his overall position? do they take what a rider has to gain by whatever action has happened into account when determining the penalty or is it pure politics :D

While it's good to have a change in the jersey and hopefully a race from now on, I'm not sure i can warm to it being Astana :(

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby biker jk » Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:56 am

AndyRevill wrote:
biker jk wrote:[

Farcical but nothing surprises me after Froome the running man was never penalised on Ventoux.


Serious question because I don't know the answer: What rule did he break in doing that? My understanding is you can cross the line on foot as long as you are carrying your bike, but is there a rule that a rider can't progress his position on the road while waiting for the team car? It seems to me, in reality all he gained from that exercise was a YouTube career, it did nothing to help his overall position? do they take what a rider has to gain by whatever action has happened into account when determining the penalty or is it pure politics :D

While it's good to have a change in the jersey and hopefully a race from now on, I'm not sure i can warm to it being Astana :(

Cheers, Andy


UCI 12.12.14: "Wilful deviation from the course, attempt to be placed without having covered the entire course by bicycle, resuming the race after having accepted a lift in a vehicle or on a motorbike" are prohibited.

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby ForkinGreat » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:34 pm

It seems that the UCI and the Tour de France organisers truly need to collectively "get their hand off it".

UCI playing favourites, Sagan being ejected from TdF, Bennett & Uran fined for accepting water from fan, Demare weaving all over road in Sprint finish and getting off with zero penalty... What the frack is going on?!?!?!?
and beyond that, this 'race ettiquette' BS is wearing very thin. "oh noes... precious petal froome has a puncture. dang, we can't race. Oh noes, froome took a wrong turn that was his fault. gee, lets all wait, because we're not allowed to race until team sky says we are."

Tom DuMoulin had to take a dump in a mountain stage in the Giro - no-one waited for him. Movistar attacked.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-cycli ... SKBN19W28W
(from the article)
"If the race is on, it does not matter what happens to the yellow jersey, he's got a team and that's what a team is for"
_________________________________

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krrINXCwdM8

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby Mububban » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:41 pm

Somewhat related - I've always wanted to have a peek inside the neutral service vehicles :)
The bikes on top are Canyon Ultimates with Ultegra, which I've also wondered about.


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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby Cardy George » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:42 pm

ForkinGreat wrote:It seems that the UCI and the Tour de France organisers truly need to collectively "get their hand off it".

UCI playing favourites, Sagan being ejected from TdF, Bennett & Uran fined for accepting water from fan, Demare weaving all over road in Sprint finish and getting off with zero penalty... What the frack is going on?!?!?!?
and beyond that, this 'race ettiquette' BS is wearing very thin. "oh noes... precious petal froome has a puncture. dang, we can't race. Oh noes, froome took a wrong turn that was his fault. gee, lets all wait, because we're not allowed to race until team sky says we are."

Tom DuMoulin had to take a dump in a mountain stage in the Giro - no-one waited for him. Movistar attacked.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-cycli ... SKBN19W28W
(from the article)
"If the race is on, it does not matter what happens to the yellow jersey, he's got a team and that's what a team is for"


+ 100 on that!

I nearly turned it off at that point. Robbie McEwan nearly had kittens.....

Hopefully Bardet can keep going a get a decent placing. He's been creeping up on it over the last few years.

Tonight's stage looks like one hell of a dog fight. Only 100k over 3 Cat 1 climbs.......

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby AndyRevill » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:50 pm

biker jk wrote:
UCI 12.12.14: "Wilful deviation from the course, attempt to be placed without having covered the entire course by bicycle, resuming the race after having accepted a lift in a vehicle or on a motorbike" are prohibited.


Thanks!
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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby rodneycc » Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:29 pm

Hope Bardet didn't spend all his petrol ticket because it was Bastille Day...
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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby find_bruce » Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:12 pm

Chuck wrote:Nice work from the "token" French guy.
I will happily eat humble pie - if Bardet is wearing yellow on the Champs Elysee.

rodneycc wrote:Hope Bardet didn't spend all his petrol ticket because it was Bastille Day...
Umm, except it wasn't Bastille Day - that's tonight, which should be a cracker - short & sharp with 3 cat 1 mountains.

RonK wrote:If they weren't already before, the jury's decisions have now become farcial. Bennett and Uran given time penalties for accepting water from spectators.

George Bennett slams Tour de France time penalty
Can anyone explain why Bennett & Uran were penalised but Bardet wasn't? Apart from the obvious that Bardet is French.

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby rodneycc » Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:20 pm

Oh Yeah that's right they are 10 hours behind.... :-)
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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby fat and old » Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:51 pm

RonK wrote:
Chuck wrote:Nice work from the "token" French guy.

I was thinking exactly that too.

And just in time for Bastille Day.


Meh :lol: Yeah, good win by the young fella.

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:42 pm

I don't mind a compassionate jury decision, with Froomey and the running man episode and then final timings for riders including Ritchie Porte, the decision seemed to be a fair solution.

But it is the inconsistency where drastically different penalties or consequences are awarded for comparable situations... this is frustrating.

On 'attacking yellow' and all of the unwritten rules of who can go or who can attack when, this is all rubbish because it adds the ability to manipulate the competition so it is not just strategy and ability alone.

Technicals are bad luck - and when Aru sprinted, he didn't appear to have the legs to really get far so too big a deal was made. What is in it for Aru who was challenging for the GC to give the Yellow jersey an advantage which he can't automatically claim. If a rider wants to wait, let them do it, but it should be their own choice and they shouldn't be hounded by other riders or bumped for this.


Back to the drinks, I get it that they want the cars away from the riders towards the end, fair enough. And with spectator drinks, their is some risk (contamination... or it may be a disgusting red bull) but for the hills, that has been part of the tour and riders have harder access to drinks while climbing.

In summary, the jury are not helping.

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby Derny Driver » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:55 pm

AUbicycles wrote:Back to the drinks, I get it that they want the cars away from the riders towards the end, fair enough. And with spectator drinks, their is some risk (contamination... or it may be a disgusting red bull) but for the hills, that has been part of the tour and riders have harder access to drinks while climbing.

Bennett claiming he's never heard of this rule ... well he must live under a rock because the rules for feeding are always the ones spelt out first in every race. No feeding in the first 40km and no feeding in the last 20 (flat stages) or 10 (hill) is standard practice in every tour in the world.
I saw a tweet that said the drink was taken from a rival team soigneur and not a spectator. Lets just say that when you are dying of thirst you will take a punt that it wont be noticed and grab something. Rule breaking when no-one is watching is normal. I once paid a delivery van driver with cans of Coke from my scooter, to pace one of my dropped riders back up to the convoy in a poorer part of the world. Cost me 6 cans of Coke and he never got back anyway..
However I digress.
Drinks taken from spectators need to be unopened bottles, or if opened are simply poured on the head. Everyone is aware of the risk and its not poison or drugs, simply bad/different water that may give you the runs. Most teams when they travel only drink bottled water as a precaution.

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby biker jk » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:20 pm

Apparently, the UCI official (Inspector Clouseau) claims he didn't see Bardet drinking from the water bottle handed to him by a spectator. :roll:

https://twitter.com/julienpretotRTR/status/885608623363248128

Thankfully, they have now reversed the penalties imposed on Bennett and Uran.

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:48 pm

Derny Driver wrote:Bennett claiming he's never heard of this rule ... well he must live under a rock because the rules for feeding are always the ones spelt out first in every race. No feeding in the first 40km and no feeding in the last 20 (flat stages) or 10 (hill) is standard practice in every tour in the world.


Perhaps he commented about the understanding about taking a different from a spectator in comparison to getting a drink from a team car? I admit that I don't know if the rules specifically rules out drinks from spectators.

At least with the reversal of the decision it makes it slightly better for Bennet... but the justification of the UCI amounts to changing or implementing rules as they see fit which is not particularly reassuring. Certainly don't envy that job.

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