2017 Tour de France

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DavidS
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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby DavidS » Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:46 pm

When Froome ran up the road last year after the idiotic spectators got in the way of the race causing a motor bike accident it was quite reasonable that the time differences were anulled.

But back in 2013 when he had Porte go back to the team car to get food, within the last 10KM of the finish at the base of Alpe d'Huez, because he ran out of fuel, that should have been a much larger penalty because it very likely changed the outcome of the tour.

The inconsistencies abound, they have done so for years, and not just for French riders.

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby RonK » Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:29 pm

There was much ctitcism of Landa after the previous stage. But he went again in stage 13 and now it can be seen as extraordinarily clever tactics from Sky.
With Landa now in contention, Aru (or any other maillot jaune pretender) and his weakened team will have to defend against two Sky riders, who will be able to hammer him with a one-two attack.
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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby AUbicycles » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:18 pm

That was the most enjoyable stage to date. Far more exciting than watching one team with defensive strategies. It also seems to open up the door to more GC contenders.

Also good to see froome in the position of initiating attacks but the teamwork at times appeared slightly sketchy as if the were try to box Aru in.

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby AUbicycles » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:55 am

Sweet and Sour.

Sweet victory for Michael Matthews... he finally got his stage win.

But with Froome back in Yellow... will the tour get boring again?

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby find_bruce » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:48 am

Great win by Matthews, still 99 points behind, so can't see him overhauling Kittel for green.

Bizarre way for GC contenders to lose 25 seconds

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby stevenaaus » Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:00 pm

AUbicycles wrote:Sweet and Sour.

Sweet victory for Michael Matthews... he finally got his stage win.

But with Froome back in Yellow... will the tour get boring again?

Three climbers within 30 seconds of Froome... the race isn't over. I still like him for his TT-ing, but it won't be a gimme.

Yeah, nice to see Matthews win the stage. He said in the interview that 4 (?) years ago he was targetting this same fininsh, but had crashed and had broken ribs, so very sweet to win it this year.

I see that the UCI rules regarding gaps are changing next year. But Aru still would have lost time.. Plenty of gaps in that finish.
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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby Chuck » Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:38 pm

I feel like this thread has failed to address the biggest issue of the Tour thus far so I'm going to put it out there....



When did the S in Thomas Voeckler's first name become silent ?
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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby redsonic » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:02 pm

Chuck wrote:I feel like this thread has failed to address the biggest issue of the Tour thus far so I'm going to put it out there....



When did the S in Thomas Voeckler's first name become silent ?


When Liggett and Sherwin stopped commentating?

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby Thoglette » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:37 pm

stevenaaus wrote:Three climbers within 30 seconds of Team Froome.

There, fixed it for you.

The problem for the organisers remains that Sky have, once again, brought a team full of superdomestics, most who could be GC contenders in their own right in a few years.

The other teams have brought a GC contender.

So every night, pretty much the same story once the hangers-on have gone. The pelton is some big names plus half of Team Sky.

Until a team has the money to put a team as powerful as Sky together and lead it in a disciplined way, Sky will continue to dominate. Froome (or whoever) just needs to turn up. Sure, one needs to ride a decent ITT but Froome rarely has to do any work.

stevenaaus wrote:I see that the UCI rules regarding gaps are changing next year.

Now that's a backward step. What are they thinking?
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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby DavidS » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:01 pm

Yep, having a team like Sky just makes the Tour far less of a race. They just grind the rest of the race out of contention. Hardly the recipe for an entertaining race.

What can be done, do we need another cashed up team to make it more interesting?

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby Thoglette » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:04 am

Well, I thought AG2R was going to make me eat my words last night. An actual team attack which broke up team sky.

And then they just let him ride back up. Again. The only tut-tut was how long it took Landa to go rescue Froome.

It's one thing to drop the Yellow Jersey but they (both AG2R and the "contenders") didn't finish the job. Poor discipline or poor direction from their directors sportif
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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby Calvin27 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:30 am

DavidS wrote:What can be done, do we need another cashed up team to make it more interesting?


I'm interested in how the 'team' part of TdF came about. Anyone can shed light on this?
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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby fat and old » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:05 am

Thoglette wrote:The problem for the organisers remains that Sky have, once again, brought a team full of superdomestics, most who could be GC contenders in their own right in a few years.



Yet most if not all of them will never translate "contender" into "winner". Sky is quite good at taking excellent cyclists and turning them into useless (Uran, Boasson Hagen, even Cavendish to an extent)....even not so good into absolute machines (Portay, Froomay, Wiggins). The previously good seem to get back into the winning groove, the newly good seem to fall over. Anyone watching in the late 90's-early 2000"s will recognise this pattern.

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby AUbicycles » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:23 pm

I think I would prefer to be a newly good rider... but can I be both previously good and newly good at the same time?

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby Derny Driver » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:35 pm

Calvin27 wrote:
I'm interested in how the 'team' part of TdF came about. Anyone can shed light on this?

I am not a TDF expert. In fact I would much rather go to a six day race than the tour. Sixes are much more exciting.
Anyway I believe that originally the tour teams were trade based around bicycle manufacturers, and team mates were not allowed to pace each other. In about 1930 the teams became national teams, however the trade rivalries made it complicated when two trade teammates were on opposite teams. We see this happen in the modern Olympics where trade contracts seem to trump good old national pride. So I think in 1962 they reverted back to trade teams. The whole commercialism thing has been steadily ramping up since then with more and more money and sponsors being injected into it. Its really become a bit out of control really, when you look at Sky's money, or even the whole US Postal machine which just obliterates smaller budget teams.
I think the era of the national teams was pretty cool. Mind you France and Belgium had all the great champions in those days and Italy had Coppi who didnt need any help. The stories of the exploits of Ockers, Bobet, Coppi, Koblet, Anquetil etc make the current racing we see now look very boring indeed.

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby find_bruce » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:34 pm

While teams were prohibited from pacing each other until 1925, Desgrange backflipped in 1927 & 1928 making the race a team time trial, which was one of the reasons Oppy struggled in the 28 TdF as his team had only 4 riders, up against trade teams of 10. In 1931 Oppy rode in a combined Australia/Switzerland team

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby MichaelB » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:07 am

Thoglette wrote:Well, I thought AG2R was going to make me eat my words last night. An actual team attack which broke up team sky.

And then they just let him ride back up. Again. ...


Maybe they were going as hard as they could, the descent and long drag into the headwind was maybe a concern, only they really know, but at least they gave it a go.

I think that unless Froome has a major problem, he'll still win, but the closeness of the top 10 makes the next few stages REALLY interesting.

As much as I don't like Froome & Sky, if they win this one, then it's well deserved.

If Porte was still there, it would have been even better, but maybe next year. He knows what he needs to do, where he needs to be and that he can actually do it. Cadel did !!

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby vosadrian » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:24 am

MichaelB wrote:
Thoglette wrote:If Porte was still there, it would have been even better, but maybe next year. He knows what he needs to do, where he needs to be and that he can actually do it. Cadel did !!


Does anyone else think the contenders seem a bit half baked this year? I think it is a real shame Porte is out of it. I think he would have been in with a good chance... probably his best chance. Froome seems to be at a lower level than previous years, and the opposition seems to be less also. I expect Quintana will be a real threat next year and he clearly is not this year. No Nibali, Chavez not a contender. Valverde out. I doubt it will be so open next year with more riders choosing to learn from mistakes this year and focus on just the tour next year. I suspect Contador is out of the mix now and won't be a contender again, but I think Quintana would have run away with this year if he had not done the Giro.

I don't mind Froome doing well. I think he has done things to improve his general riding skills and animate the race more than previous. Sky have a tactic and it can make the racing less interesting, but the other teams have had opportunity they have not capitalised on. Sky have shown cracks and have not been punished. I don't know how Aru positioned so badly to lose the yellow. Surely his main aim should have been to stay near Froome at all costs. Seems like he wanted to lose it as he was way out of position well before things got tough.

For me the standout is Dan Martin (who has had the worst luck of the contenders but still in a great position)... closely followed by Uran who seems to be in his best form ever. Hopefully things get interesting, but I expect it is Froome's to lose, and he would deserve it if he did win it.
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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby MichaelB » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:40 am

Some key players certainly missing this year ;
Chaves - was hoping for at least a stage for him
Valverde - as much as I dislike him, he would have made a difference
Quintana - certainly cooked from Giro
Contador - not brilliant, but still a few stages to go
BMC - once Porte crashed out, can't seem to get anywhere
UAE, Bahrain, Cofidis - All pretty much MIA

Others that have done well :
Mollema - at least he's won a stage
Barguil - great KOM work & a stage win - on Bastille day no less !
Bardet & AG2R - trying hard, but will it be enough ?
Uran - quiet, and a good podium chance
Dan Martin - Chapeau. Great effort and trying every time he goes out. Deserves a podium at least
Aru - trying, at least has a stage win
Matthews - can he get Green ?

My dream podium from here would be Bardet to win, Martin & Uran to round out podium, Matthews in Green (somehow), Yates in White & Barguil to keep KoM.

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby vosadrian » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:21 am

Not much of a fan of Aru. Would like to see Martin up there... he seems to be racing the best. Would be good to see Uran up there... he is a quiet achiever and seems also to be a good racer. Not sure about Bardet. It might be good see a french man up in a french tour. Whatever happens, I think we all just want to see some competitive racing. The Giro delivered that and had us on the edge of our seat throughout.
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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby AUbicycles » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:36 pm

vosadrian wrote:Does anyone else think the contenders seem a bit half baked this year?


It's a hard race! But I think that team strategy significantly affects this. Team Sky has been spending a lot of time at the front so I wonder if we see more Team Sky riders fade and Froomey can no longer rely on the same support. Other teams AG2R, Quickstep and Astana can then step up and push their GC riders.

In the last stage I wonder what led the four chase riders behind Mollema to be so non-commital. They had the power as a group to reach him in the final kilometers but were not working well together. I was wondering why the didn't each have their heads down and get a better formation going because at least they would have a 1/5 chance at a stage victory. Instead they appeared to playing games and missed out on a crucial opportunity.

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby find_bruce » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:06 am

Fantastic ride by Sunweb to distance Kittel & for Matthews to finish it off taking all 50 points on offer to bring himself close to green. It's a big ask, but should be interesting to see him try

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby fat and old » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:04 am

Degenkolb's really starting to look quite the sook aye? :lol:

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby find_bruce » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:11 am

Be interesting to see if he gets a Sagan excessive penalty or a Bouhanni wet lettuce

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Re: 2017 Tour de France

Postby MichaelB » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:04 am

find_bruce wrote:Fantastic ride by Sunweb to distance Kittel & for Matthews to finish it off taking all 50 points on offer to bring himself close to green. It's a big ask, but should be interesting to see him try


Love to see him get it. Team has been great. Some sickness at Quickstep, so Kittel may be fragile in the Alps ?

Bugger for Dan Martin though !!

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