Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

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MichaelB
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Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby MichaelB » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:46 pm

Last years Giro was a cracker with some great racing and some fantastic scenery.

This years start is a bit, um...., anyway, hope those stages go smoothly.

Looking fed to watching the key stages again, probably subscribe to Foxtel again for the month to watch it.

I hope that Froome does not win it, as it will leave a sour taste becuase of the Salbutamol cloud hanging over him and the legal crap around it. Yeah, yeah, know he’s allowed to race and it’s been done to death, but it will be a much better race if the focus is not on him.

Can’t wait.

In the meantime, a few minor classics to keep me entertained :-)

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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby AndrewCowley » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:48 pm

Froome should not be racing at all. Let alone in a grand tour. Period.

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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby BJL » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:36 pm

Is anyone showing this FTA this year? Last year it wasn't and I only have a limited internet connection so no streaming, no Foxtel, etc, so FTA is all I've got. Last year's Giro was a non event for me as a result. SBS showing the Vuelta made up for it anyway.

Anyone else lost interest in the Giro as a result of no FTA broadcast?

:(

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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby MichaelB » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:42 am

BJL wrote:
Anyone else lost interest in the Giro as a result of no FTA broadcast?

:(


Definitely watching, but will probably do via Foxtel, as no FTA.

I've always found the Giro to be the GT that delivers the best racing, route and scenery.

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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby vosadrian » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:18 pm

Last year I joined foxtel go (online streaming version) 2 weeks before the end of the Giro using the 2 week free trial, and then cancelled the trial. I will be trying to do the same again this year. I would be happy to pay for 1 month of foxtel as I have no other use for it other than the Giro, but it is not really possible to get it for just one month.
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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby RonK » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:45 pm

No doubt Sky will apply their usual smothering tactics and the race will be as boring as last year's TDF.
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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby RonK » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:53 pm

BJL wrote:Is anyone showing this FTA this year? Last year it wasn't and I only have a limited internet connection so no streaming, no Foxtel, etc, so FTA is all I've got. Last year's Giro was a non event for me as a result. SBS showing the Vuelta made up for it anyway.

Anyone else lost interest in the Giro as a result of no FTA broadcast?

:(

Nope - I've had Foxtel for years and enjoyed not only the Grand Tours but also all the classics and monuments and quite few races that most have never heard of, such as the Tro-Bro Leon this week, raced over farm roads in Brittany and which I have learned is known as the "Hell of the West"

This week I'm watching the Tour of the Alps, Tour of Croatia (such a beautiful country), Fleche-Wallone, this weekend LBL.

And I don't have to endure the pain of listening to the commentary by Matthew Keenan.

In between cycle races I get to watch MotoGP, WSBK, F1, WRC, Supercars, Nascar and much much more.
Last edited by RonK on Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby fat and old » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:55 pm

RonK wrote:Nope - I've had Foxtel for years and enjoyed not only the Grand Tours but also all the classics and monument and quite few races that most have never heard of, such as the Tro-Bro Leon, raced over farm roads in Brittany and which I have learned is known as the "Hell of the West"

This week I'm watching the Tour of the Alps, Tour of Croatia (such a beautiful country), Fleche-Wallone, this weekend LBL.

And I don't have to endure the pain of listening to the commentary by Matthew Keenan.

.


Yep, second the lot...especially about Keenan!!! Poor bloke sounds like he's commenting on figure skating.

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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:20 pm

Love Keenan. Best commentator I’ve heard. Shits all over those on the other networks.
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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby BJL » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:58 pm

I guess I need to reiterate my question.

For those of you who DON'T have anything but FTA, has the lack of FTA broadcast diminished your interest in the Giro?

I'm glad some of you have Foxtel or other alternatives but some of us are plebs here. :(

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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby singlespeedscott » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:05 pm

I love the Giro more than the Tour but not having any FTA coverage certainly reduces my interest. Even a highlights show for 1/2 hour every night would be nice but the Giro owners got greedy.
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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby fat and old » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:52 pm

When away from Melbourne, I always use YouTube the next morning and mirror it on the Tv. There’s one bloke who always posts the Rurosprt telecast in v good quality

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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby AUbicycles » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:01 am

Froome, sort out your dirty washing first.

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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby AndrewCowley » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:26 pm

fat and old wrote:Yep, second the lot...especially about Keenan!!! Poor bloke sounds like he's commenting on figure skating.

Would be funny to put Matthew Keenan and Carlton Kirby together.

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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby vosadrian » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:28 am

AUbicycles wrote:Froome, sort out your dirty washing first.


You realise he is just playing by the rules and following the process set by the rule makers?

Consider for a moment that he did not do the wrong thing but for some reason he registered a high test. Do you think he should pull out at the peak of his career when he did nothing wrong?
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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby RonK » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:51 am

vosadrian wrote:
AUbicycles wrote:Froome, sort out your dirty washing first.


You realise he is just playing the rules and following the process set by the rule makers?

Fixed that for you...
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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby MichaelB » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:26 pm

vosadrian wrote:
AUbicycles wrote:Froome, sort out your dirty washing first.


You realise he is just playing by the rules and following the process set by the rule makers?

Consider for a moment that he did not do the wrong thing but for some reason he registered a high test. Do you think he should pull out at the peak of his career when he did nothing wrong?


Yes, he (and his team) are using the rules, as can any competitor. Sky can afford better lawyers though ...

I personally did consider whether he has done anything 'wrong' (and that word 'wrong' has all sorts of semantics about it).

So the question I pose, is that IF he did absolutely nothing wrong, why then did the pharmokinetic study not show this ? If it was so bleeding obvious that he did nothing wrong and could PROVE this beyond a reasonable doubt (don't know what the burden of proof is or where it lies), then why is it taking so long ?

The reality is that (IMHO) they cannot prove it, and unlike Ulissi, Froome and Sky have MUCH MUCH more to lose. If he accepts responsibility/found guilty and gets a ban, by the team charter he would be sacked, his value drop considerably, and easily spell the end of Sky.

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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby vosadrian » Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:23 pm

The point of my previous post was that the issue here is the rules. He is just doing it all by the book. If it had remained confidential as it is supposed to, we would be none the wiser that this was even happening and we would only find out later if he was guilty. Someone broke confidentiality and as a result he has been placed under pressure to withdraw from racing. Is his laundry dirty? Who knows? The UCI decided the evidence available currently is not irrefutable so he has the option to defend himself.

Really it seems the rules are not good for cycling as they are what has allowed this to happen. He is just playing by the rules that are set out. It seems the rules need to be changed. Maybe they just need a (higher?) limit for salbutanol and immediate suspension? This adverse finding thing seemed to create problems by allowing riders to continue to ride and potentially be disqualified at a later time which is not good for anyone.

If Froome did step down from racing awaiting a final decision, that would be interpreted as a sign of guilt. He is caught between a rock and a hard place. He has a likely one time opportunity to concurrently hold all 3 grand tour titles. Consider for a moment that you thought you had done no wrong and somebody let the cat out of the bag that created all his problems when they should not have. I think if I thought I had done no wrong I would do the same as him. If I knew I had done wrong and would likely eventually get suspended, I would probably withdraw myself to limit the later damage. If he races now and gets suspended later, that will be the end of him.

What I see more here is that people's opinion on this has more to do with their opinion of Sky and Froome. If the same thing happened to Esteban Chaves, I think people would see it differently. People have been looking for a way to take down Froome and Sky and the rationale behind the reason does not matter.
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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby AUbicycles » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:05 pm

Can I determine that it is not in Froomes hands currently to resolve?

I had understood that Sky and Froome have time but it was in their power to respond earlier with their evidence. Are they having trouble compiling their evidence or just trying to prolong it?

Another perspective is the advantage and disadvantage of both approaches, to compete or to wait. I get it that he feels that he is in his peak but until their is clarity, Team Sky and Froome have a dirty stain and a lot of fans are not happy.The history of doping in cycling has to be acknowledged and right now it is completely dubious - compounded by the Wiggins TUE.

If he pulls out - I feel that it is graceful and honourable. If the matter is then resolved without any ambiguity to his benefit and he is shown to be completely clean - then he gets respect and probably a lot more fans and support for going for the harder option with a sacrifice of participation in 1 major event.

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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby RobertL » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:33 pm

vosadrian wrote:The point of my previous post was that the issue here is the rules. He is just doing it all by the book. If it had remained confidential as it is supposed to, we would be none the wiser that this was even happening and we would only find out later if he was guilty. Someone broke confidentiality and as a result he has been placed under pressure to withdraw from racing. Is his laundry dirty? Who knows? The UCI decided the evidence available currently is not irrefutable so he has the option to defend himself.


The thing about this is that he is supposed to remain anonymous while the process plays out. The only reason we know that he has failed this test is because Russian hackers exposed his name.

While this is going on with Froome, we have no idea of how many other cyclists are currently in the same situation - whose names are being kept anonymous as per the rules.

So why should one rider have to step aside, just because hackers have exposed him?
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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby AUbicycles » Tue May 01, 2018 5:49 am

That's a point, so it is fair to criticise the rules. Why is dodgy stuff happening and taking a long time to resolve but technically the world doesn't need to know. With the durations we are talking about - it is extremely generous towards the riders.

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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby vosadrian » Tue May 01, 2018 8:15 am

AUbicycles wrote:If he pulls out - I feel that it is graceful and honourable. If the matter is then resolved without any ambiguity to his benefit and he is shown to be completely clean - then he gets respect and probably a lot more fans and support for going for the harder option with a sacrifice of participation in 1 major event.


The things is that it is not just one major event. He has not done the Giro in many years. The only reason he is doing it is because he has the opportunity to hold all 3 grand tours at one time which has never been done. If he does not do it now it is unlikely he will get another opportunity. I don't think he would be worried at all about missing the Giro if it were not for this. He has missed the last 6 of them.

We can comment all we like on how quickly this is resolved, but until we see the defence, we will have no idea how long it takes to resolve something like this. For all we know they are publishing a paper on the science of decay of salbutanol levels in athletes and taking a lot of data from many athletes and it takes time? Where does the 1000nG limit come from? Perhaps they are challenging that? If they can prove that a person (any person!) can have a level above 1000nG while using an inhaler within normal limits in certain conditions, they should have a reasonable case. Maybe the person that can do that is proving elusive!
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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby MichaelB » Tue May 01, 2018 8:19 am

vosadrian wrote: ...What I see more here is that people's opinion on this has more to do with their opinion of Sky and Froome. If the same thing happened to Esteban Chaves, I think people would see it differently. People have been looking for a way to take down Froome and Sky and the rationale behind the reason does not matter.


I agree there 100%, and I'm more anti Sky than Froome (but I don't like him either) because of their changing and ethical posturing that is being unravelled really quickly. Marginal gains, my ass. More like How much can we get away with under the guise of MG ....

Also, we saw how differently the teams handled an adverse finding. One was open (and most likely honest) vs legalese and obfuscation.

Meh, the fact that it was exposed when it shouldn't (normally anyway) be is beside the point. It is now, and the issue is, for me, HOW it's being dealt with.

It's a duck to me.

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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby vosadrian » Tue May 01, 2018 9:20 am

I don't like Sky, and I am happy for Wiggins to get whatever is coming to him, but I don't mind Froome. I did not use to like him, but he has grown on me. I think his earlier success was very much a predictable formula. Lots of people did not like that method, and I think he has gone a long way in responding to that. One way is that he has changed from a known poor descender who questioned others attacking him on descents as dangerous to a great descender who now attacks the descents. That attacck down hill in 2016 TDF certainly had everyone talking.

He is well spoken in public and respectful of his competitors... and he rides that way also. He knows his strengths and rides to them. I am an engineer and I can appreciate the riding to numbers thing. I think his competitors could ride to combat that but they tend to attack and get a gap on him and then all look at each other rather than working together to make the gap stick. I think his general manner is not popular in cycling culture which prefers a passionate approach where someone puts it all on the line all or nothing rather than an engineering driven approach which makes the most of what you have. Someone with some flare who says the wrong thing from time to time and makes decisions with the heart rather than with the head is going to be popular in cycling culture. Personally I will be barracking for Chaves who seems unlikely with form of late, but he is just happy to be there no matter what happens.

All that aside, it just did not seem in Froome's or Sky's interest to have intentionally abused Salbutanol. The odds of getting caught were high and the benefits are questionable and they are not that stupid. An accidental overdose? Possible I guess.
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Re: Giro 2018 - cracker event again ?

Postby fat and old » Tue May 01, 2018 12:27 pm

vosadrian wrote: The only reason he is doing it is because he has the opportunity to hold all 3 grand tours at one time which has never been done.


Pretty sure Hinault did, when the Vuelta was in April. I think others may have

Edit. Incorrect. I was thinking of the "grand Slam"

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