25mm tyres = comfort

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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby __PG__ » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:51 am

jacks1071 wrote:
__PG__ wrote:Fork clearance is also an issue. I've heard the 3t Funda fork will struggle with 25mm tyres


According to 3T website you can run up to and including 28mm tyres with that fork:

http://www.3tcycling.com/f/funda%20clearance.pdf


Interesting, a custom frame builder has just told me the exact opposite. I will send him that link.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby MichaelB » Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:25 pm

Just remember that not all tyres are the same size, no matter what they are labelled.

e.g. The Schwalbe Ultremo ZX is a shade under 25mm, whilst the Michelin Optimum Pro is more like a 26mm (width and height).

Even different tyres from the same manufacturer can be different - Conti GP 4 Season and Conti Grand Prix, both 28C but different size.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby pagey » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:35 pm

My 25mm GP4000s JUST clear my 3T Funda forks on my S2. Any grit picked up will cause noise.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby ausrandoman » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:28 pm

Agreed.

I use Panaracer Grand Bois, 700 x 26 on the front (3T Funda fork) and 700 x 28 on the rear (hard to get past the brake pads, even with the QR open). For me, the improvement in comfort, on any ride longer than about 100 to 150 km, is well worth the small increase in weight - and that includes riding the Audax ACE, Mt. Baw Baw, Mt. Ventoux and Tourmalet.

As for rolling resistance - don't be fooled into thinking you can feel it. Go by the measurements / data posted above.

As another poster suggested, don't go by size alone. A tyre with a stiff, hard side wall might not work out as well as one with a thin, light casing. I don't know: I've only ever tried light weight big section tyres.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby __PG__ » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:58 am

Have done some googling. Some 25mm tyres are quite tight with the 3T fork.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby Comedian » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:03 pm

MichaelB wrote:Just remember that not all tyres are the same size, no matter what they are labelled.

e.g. The Schwalbe Ultremo ZX is a shade under 25mm, whilst the Michelin Optimum Pro is more like a 26mm (width and height).

Even different tyres from the same manufacturer can be different - Conti GP 4 Season and Conti Grand Prix, both 28C but different size.

For the record, my bike came with Michelin Pro Optimum and the tyre would get jammed between the brakes. It could usually be resolved with force :eek:

I now run Schwalbe Ultremo ZX 23mm and they fit without drama whilst inflated.
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby Johndec » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:40 pm

Thread revival :lol: I've got a 25km loop that I ride after work most days if I've got the time. I've probably done it at least 100 times over the last year. The postman delivered my latest order from Ribble yesterday that included a set of Vittoria Open Corsa Evo 25mm tyres. Whacked them on the Colnago last night at 95/105 psi (compared to 100/110 that I pumped my 23mm GP4000s that they replaced).

Went for a spin this afternoon and managed to complete my 25km loop in the best time I've done in at least 3 months, approximately 1km/h faster than average and that was with a 22km/h southerly blowing. The only time I've beaten today's speed with 23mm tyres was on dead calm days. Now was that because I've fitted a higher spec tyre or was it because they were 2mm wider or was I subconsciously trying a little harder? Dunno.. But I didn't feel any more or less buggered after the ride than on any other day so I *think* I can discount the trying harder bit.

Bottom line = ride quality. My 25km loop is about 2/3 road and 1/3 paved bike path, Captain Cook Bridge at Taren Point to Arncliffe and back using the Botany Bay cycle path to avoid the busy bits of The Grand Parade (locals will know the route). I found on really smooth bitumen the 25mm tyres were possibly a tad draggier (if that's a word) than the 23mm tyres. On the rougher ryolite (chip sealed) bitumen, I was floating rather than jarring over the surface and on the paved bike path it was no contest, I was ploughing over rough pavers that I usually lift my bum off the seat to avoid permanent damage to the twins... :shock:

I'm sold on 25mm for fitness/commuting. Now if I could only convince Vittoria to reintroduce the Diamante Pro range instead of those stupid radial things that replaced them, I'd be in 25mm heaven... I've had the Diamante Pros before (in 23mm) and they are a great performance/price/durability package.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby jacks1071 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:32 pm

I've even gone 25mm tubulars on my race wheels, loving them.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby open roader » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:04 pm

I'm finding quality 23mm and 24mm tubulars offer as much comfort if not more than the best 25mm clincher I tried........... very happy I switched to tubulars.... :D
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby Mrfenejeans » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:40 pm

I tried 25mm for a bout 2weeks, when this thread first came to light with high hopes.

I purchased 25mm GP4000's, which was a fair comparison to my usual 23mm GP4000's, while they handle pretty much the same, for me i found them heavier and bulkier and not really the joy to ride i had hoped for. So Back to the 23mm for now.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby Tony6463 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:45 pm

Johndec wrote:Bottom line = ride quality. My 25km loop is about 2/3 road and 1/3 paved bike path, Captain Cook Bridge at Taren Point to Arncliffe and back using the Botany Bay cycle path to avoid the busy bits of The Grand Parade (locals will know the route). I found on really smooth bitumen the 25mm tyres were possibly a tad draggier (if that's a word) than the 23mm tyres. On the rougher ryolite (chip sealed) bitumen, I was floating rather than jarring over the surface and on the paved bike path it was no contest, I was ploughing over rough pavers that I usually lift my bum off the seat to avoid permanent damage to the twins... :shock:


Hey John, do you stay on the path all the way around the shore of Botany to the M5 or do you use Chuter Ave etc. I can joint that path near Sharkies if I head that way but usually head out and around Kurnell. May be time to change the scenery.

Just put a 25mm on the rear but haven't had a chance to ride it yet. Looking forward to see the difference.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby jacks1071 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:13 pm

Mrfenejeans wrote:I tried 25mm for a bout 2weeks, when this thread first came to light with high hopes.

I purchased 25mm GP4000's, which was a fair comparison to my usual 23mm GP4000's, while they handle pretty much the same, for me i found them heavier and bulkier and not really the joy to ride i had hoped for. So Back to the 23mm for now.


Thats interesting, mind if I ask your weight and what pressures do you normally run on the 23mm vs what you tried on the 25mm ?
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby moreegolfer » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:20 pm

I am running a 23mm front clincher (GP4000S) and a 25mm rear clincher (Durano Plus). Once the front gets too cut up I have a 23mm Durano to replace. I won't go back to a 23mm rear as the 25mm is much smoother for me. I am a heavier rider 90+kg and ride some crap roads so that may have helped cement my change.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby Johndec » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:39 pm

Tony6463 wrote:Hey John, do you stay on the path all the way around the shore of Botany to the M5 or do you use Chuter Ave etc. I can joint that path near Sharkies if I head that way but usually head out and around Kurnell. May be time to change the scenery.


Both. It depends on the time of day/weather/weekend,etc. If I'm just tooling around putting in some k's on a weekday or winter, I'll pick up the bike path at Russell Ave and follow it all the way past the old soccer stadium to the M5. On really nice days/weekends/school holidays, I avoid it and use Chuter Ave as it just gets too crowded with mindless zombies that jump out in front of you, especially in the separated bike only zones. They avoid the pedestrian path like it's diseased and love ambling 3 abreast in the bike paths... Hell, I've even seen people set their picnic blankets smack bang on the bike path as that is were the shade from the nearest tree was.

If you pick your time, the ride along the bay is great. If it is a day that is likely to attract a lot of Toyota Taragos from Lakemba or Auburn, it's a nightmare :)
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby hotshod » Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:03 pm

If your riding "singles or tubular " tyres you know the joy of speed and comfort even using cheap versions of any brand tyre, but pay more get more --- speed and comfort, but riding tubulars requires a whole lot more dedication,which i would encourage because the results are worthwhile.

If you want to try another alternative , and most definitely the way of the future, try tubeless clincher..... Tubeless will give you 85% of the ride comfort of a tubular tyre that will ride beautifully over chunky surfaces and provide confidence inspiring handling, particularly high speed downhill and rarely if ever get a puncture.
Most common tubeless tyre is the Hutchinson Fusion 3 (AT) 23mm, though more manufacturers are entering the market.
I have NEVER had a flat tyre using tubeless , probably because you run 30ml of latex solution within the tyre and all punctures are repaired before you even know that you have one.....

Go do a search there is a stack of info about tubeless , but above all is the comfort ....... you can run them down to 70psi or lower without any chance of a pinch flat , as no tube is present to be pinched.
I'm 72kg and run my Hutch F3 at 75/85 psi, compared to previous Schwable ZX 23mm at 120psi . I have just change my rear after 5100k , there were patches of canvass showing but still no flats.....

I'm convinced all road bikes should be using tubeless.

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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby MREJ » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:35 am

Tubeless - I admit I havent actually tried it, but I looked into it and it all sounds too hard. Stories about the goo needing cleaning up and replenishment, and that it either works and corrodes your rims, or actually doesn't work; still need to carry a tube in case of a flat, and then it's hard to get the tyre off; very limited range of tyres.

Good clinchers puncture rarely, are easy to get on and off, even without levers, don't require a rotating mass of goop and are widely available. Plus, at 71kg, you can definitely run them much lower than 120psi, and even more so if they are 25mm. I weigh 73kg and run 23mm at 100/105 (a bit more for races on smooth roads) and 25mm at 90/95.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby bomber » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:16 am

I moved to Veloflex Master 23mm tyres with latex tubes and am thrilled with the decision. Then I put the same set up on hed's wider rim and couldn't believe the difference again.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby hotshod » Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:31 pm

MREJ wrote:Tubeless - I admit I havent actually tried it, but I looked into it and it all sounds too hard. Stories about the goo needing cleaning up and replenishment, and that it either works and corrodes your rims, or actually doesn't work; still need to carry a tube in case of a flat, and then it's hard to get the tyre off; very limited range of tyres..



What a load of negative rubbish and misinformation...... before you can make any comment , you need to try tubeless , then report back , good,bad, or indifferent.
If you are a half competent idiot, you'll have no trouble managing the use of tubeless , if your IQ is below 65 stick with clinchers.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby Aushiker » Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:57 pm

hotshod wrote:What a load of negative rubbish and misinformation...... before you can make any comment , you need to try tubeless , then report back , good,bad, or indifferent.
If you are a half competent idiot, you'll have no trouble managing the use of tubeless , if your IQ is below 65 stick with clinchers.


Oh dear .. get out of bed on the wrong side this morning? :roll:

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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby Ross » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:20 am

A lot of people that are "upgrading" to 25mm tyres and claiming a lot more comfort than 23mm are not doing a proper comparison. They are running a lower pressure in the 25mm tyres, of course it is going to be more comfortable! Run the same pressure in a 23mm and report back.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby NhiTrac » Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:21 am

Aushiker wrote:Oh dear .. get out of bed on the wrong side this morning? :roll:

Andrew


Its a childish behaviour and to me shows no strength of a good argument when people have to get all personal...

Anyway I've never tried tubless either but from what I've read on the internet, the cons outweighs the pros for me personally and as such I have no intentions of trying it. Good ol <65 IQ clinchers for me
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby Nobody » Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:24 am

Ross wrote:A lot of people that are "upgrading" to 25mm tyres and claiming a lot more comfort than 23mm are not doing a proper comparison. They are running a lower pressure in the 25mm tyres, of course it is going to be more comfortable! Run the same pressure in a 23mm and report back.
23s have less rim protection (less height) and more drag at the same pressure that you would typically run 25s.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby ldrcycles » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:21 am

switching from 23s to 25s is just the first step towards moving back to the 27 x 1-1/4 we should all be on :twisted: .
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby jacks1071 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:29 pm

Ross wrote:A lot of people that are "upgrading" to 25mm tyres and claiming a lot more comfort than 23mm are not doing a proper comparison. They are running a lower pressure in the 25mm tyres, of course it is going to be more comfortable! Run the same pressure in a 23mm and report back.


If you run lower pressures in the 23mm you risk pinch flats making this not viable for many riders.

A wider tyre has more air volume which allows you to run less pressure without risk of pinch flats.

For example, I am 68kg and I know that I can run 100psi in the front and 110psi rear with 23mm tyre and if i get a pinch flat chances are I've hit something so hard that my wheel is ruined. With a 25mm tyre, I can drop that pressure by 10psi and have a similar risk of pinch flats (almost zero). Heavier riders may require higher pressures than I use.

If you run 25's and the same pressure as 23's the 25's are still more comfortable but the difference is less noticeable. The bulk of the benefit in the wider tyre comes when you drop the pressure by 10psi less than you would normally run on the 23mm tyres.

Side note: On my race wheels which now have 25mm tubulars I'm running 110psi front and rear, I found the front wheel was too squirmish to give the required confidence in a full-power sprint at 100psi.

If you are a light rider and don't have a particuarly stiff frame you might not notice much difference from wider tyres. Bigger riders, people with really stiff frames or people who ride on particularly crappy roads (chip seal) have the most to gain from wider tyres.

Performance wise, its hard to say if there is much in it without doing things like "roll down" tests. I have had more than one person tell me they set PB's on Strava first ride out with 25mm tyres.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby Comedian » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:48 pm

hotshod wrote:
MREJ wrote:Tubeless - I admit I havent actually tried it, but I looked into it and it all sounds too hard. Stories about the goo needing cleaning up and replenishment, and that it either works and corrodes your rims, or actually doesn't work; still need to carry a tube in case of a flat, and then it's hard to get the tyre off; very limited range of tyres..



What a load of negative rubbish and misinformation...... before you can make any comment , you need to try tubeless , then report back , good,bad, or indifferent.
If you are a half competent idiot, you'll have no trouble managing the use of tubeless , if your IQ is below 65 stick with clinchers.

i must have an iq of like... 50 or something. Luckily I can add up real good though.

Hutchinson fusion tubeless weights 312gm each. Add 50 grams of sealant and say 20 for Tim tape and I'm up to 380 or so.

My ultremo zx is 190 plus 80 g for a lightish (not ultra lite) tube and I'm at 270, or over 100g per wheel. That's a lot of rotating mass.

My mate bought those and tried them. He doesn't use them anymore though so he must be a real dumb mech engineer. We did an event and his back punctured and sprayed the sealant everywhere.

Personally, while I think tubeless is great in mtb (I run tubeles there) I don't think the advantages are nearly as clear cut for road biking applications.

But then... As you've astutely noted its a wonder I'm able to breath and type this at the same time.... THUNK. :mrgreen:
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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