sorting through spoke voodoo; building a wheel.

Workshop tales, trials and disasters.
Maintenance tips, techniques and myths.
Technical discussion, description and outright lies

sorting through spoke voodoo; building a wheel.

Postby blokeinamoke » Wed May 08, 2013 9:07 pm

Hey all,

So ive got:
SRAM A2 Automatix hub
700c rim

How does one join the 2 in perfect harmony, never built a wheel before, no idea if i need 36 spokes of the exact same length or if the lovely couple need alternating lengths...

flange diameter 70mm, flange spacing 53mm no idea what the ERD of the rim is (not too sure how to obtain that number either) i will assume a normal spoke layout will suffice? (no idea what that means either) im 105kg so something with strength? (yep, just something else i dont know)

I have searched on here for wheel building how too's to no luck... any help would be amazing (what to buy or where.... )

Cheers,
Matt
User avatar
blokeinamoke
 
Posts: 202
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: Sydeney

by BNA » Wed May 08, 2013 9:43 pm

BNA
 

Re: sorting through spoke voodoo; building a wheel.

Postby find_bruce » Wed May 08, 2013 9:43 pm

Hi Matt,

I have replaced plenty of spokes over the years but have only just built my first complete wheel & in less than 2 months I have built 4 wheels, so it seems I am hooked.

The reason you won't find a "how to guide" here is because there is no need - just lob £9 Roger Musson's way & his pdf "book" will take you through the complete process step by step from measuring your components, his website has a spoke length calculator, & the instructions are clear & easy to follow.

All it takes is some simple tools & a bit of patience.
Image
User avatar
find_bruce
 
Posts: 3576
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: sorting through spoke voodoo; building a wheel.

Postby familyguy » Thu May 09, 2013 9:02 am

Try Spocalc (by Damon Rinard?), or the DT Swiss website spoke calculator. Should be able to plug in figures of offsets, flanges, ERD and such to determine a length required for each side.

You might be lucky enough to have symmetrical spokes with the A2.

Jim
User avatar
familyguy
 
Posts: 5036
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:30 pm
Location: Cromer, NSW

Re: sorting through spoke voodoo; building a wheel.

Postby jules21 » Thu May 09, 2013 1:11 pm

just go on YT, or buy the book bruce linked. building a new wheel is easy, as the rim is straight.

is it a front or rear wheel? if rear, the spokes will tend to be different lengths. to be honest, i find this the most difficult bit to get right. i've used the DT Swiss calculator, but have found the results to be quite sensitive to accurate measurements. my tip: select spokes on the longer side, as the ends can safely poke into the rim cavity. however - too long and you'll run out of thread and won't achieve sufficient tension.

fortunately, you can buy sets of spokes off online shops like chainreactioncycles.com quite cheaply, so getting it wrong isn't a disaster (unless you're looking for special, high end spokes).

a 3-cross pattern will give you decent strength, as will the meaty DT swiss spokes that c-reaction sell. (most wheels seem to run 2-cross on the drive side of the rear wheel).

for a front wheel, i'd have thought a 2-cross pattern was sufficient, due to the lower weight on it.
Image
User avatar
jules21
 
Posts: 8560
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:14 pm
Location: deep in the pain cave

Re: sorting through spoke voodoo; building a wheel.

Postby find_bruce » Thu May 09, 2013 1:59 pm

jules21 wrote:just go on YT, or buy the book bruce linked. building a new wheel is easy, as the rim is straight.

is it a front or rear wheel? if rear, the spokes will tend to be different lengths. to be honest, i find this the most difficult bit to get right. i've used the DT Swiss calculator, but have found the results to be quite sensitive to accurate measurements. my tip: select spokes on the longer side, as the ends can safely poke into the rim cavity. however - too long and you'll run out of thread and won't achieve sufficient tension.

fortunately, you can buy sets of spokes off online shops like chainreactioncycles.com quite cheaply, so getting it wrong isn't a disaster (unless you're looking for special, high end spokes).

a 3-cross pattern will give you decent strength, as will the meaty DT swiss spokes that c-reaction sell. (most wheels seem to run 2-cross on the drive side of the rear wheel).

for a front wheel, i'd have thought a 2-cross pattern was sufficient, due to the lower weight on it.

Um Jules, I suspect you may have missed some comments in the OP
(1) the SRAM A2 Automatix hub is a rear wheel &
(2) the interwebs suggest that the flange diameter (69 mm) and the flange distance (30 mm) are the same left and right, so will use the same length spokes on each side

I should have added that Musson provides a free extract of the book that tells you how to measure the ERD & the flange distance http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc/calc-measure.pdf

As jules21 says though, even at 105kg, a 36 spoke wheel with a 3-cross pattern should give a nice reliable wheel. I would spend the extra couple of bucks on double butted spokes (DT Swiss, Sapim etc) but YMMV. The real question for you is what rim to buy - ideally you want to have it in your hands to measure before you buy the spokes
Image
User avatar
find_bruce
 
Posts: 3576
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: sorting through spoke voodoo; building a wheel.

Postby wqlava1 » Thu May 09, 2013 9:42 pm

familyguy wrote:Try Spocalc (by Damon Rinard?), or the DT Swiss website spoke calculator. Should be able to plug in figures of offsets, flanges, ERD and such to determine a length required for each side.

You might be lucky enough to have symmetrical spokes with the A2.

Jim



They are all giving good advice above. As a variation on Spocalc, I prefer the web interface offered by the spoke calculator on

http://freebiketools.org/

which the guy who supports it says has a tidied up version of the Spocalc database.
2014 goal 52000m
Image
wqlava1
 
Posts: 501
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:13 am
Location: Nillumbik, Vic

Re: sorting through spoke voodoo; building a wheel.

Postby blokeinamoke » Tue May 14, 2013 11:48 pm

Cheers for the replies everyone!

So i plugged the numbers into the spocalc spreadsheet (alot of data in that badboy!) got to my spoke length of 288.5mm

Started compiling a basket at chain reaction:

36x288mm DT spokes
40 red nipples (hehehe)
114 link Single Speed chain
shimano bb

and a couple of other things... $102 bucks worth on its way as we type... I guess i should probably start playing with the frame sometime soon get it ready for paint and read a few how to build a wheel books!

Cheers again,
Matt
User avatar
blokeinamoke
 
Posts: 202
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: Sydeney

Re: sorting through spoke voodoo; building a wheel.

Postby queequeg » Tue May 14, 2013 11:50 pm

blokeinamoke wrote:Cheers for the replies everyone!

So i plugged the numbers into the spocalc spreadsheet (alot of data in that badboy!) got to my spoke length of 288.5mm

Started compiling a basket at chain reaction:

36x288mm DT spokes
40 red nipples (hehehe)
114 link Single Speed chain
shimano bb

and a couple of other things... $102 bucks worth on its way as we type... I guess i should probably start playing with the frame sometime soon get it ready for paint and read a few how to build a wheel books!

Cheers again,
Matt


Hope those red nipples were brass instead of alloy :-)
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '09 Electra Townie Original 21D
User avatar
queequeg
 
Posts: 2769
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:09 am

Re: sorting through spoke voodoo; building a wheel.

Postby find_bruce » Wed May 15, 2013 12:36 am

queequeg wrote:Hope those red nipples were brass instead of alloy :-)

Hope you realise brass is an alloy :mrgreen:
Image
User avatar
find_bruce
 
Posts: 3576
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: sorting through spoke voodoo; building a wheel.

Postby Mulger bill » Wed May 15, 2013 9:39 am

find_bruce wrote:
queequeg wrote:Hope those red nipples were brass instead of alloy :-)

Hope you realise brass is an alloy :mrgreen:

:lol: Touche!
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011
User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 25567
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: sorting through spoke voodoo; building a wheel.

Postby queequeg » Wed May 15, 2013 3:02 pm

find_bruce wrote:
queequeg wrote:Hope those red nipples were brass instead of alloy :-)

Hope you realise brass is an alloy :mrgreen:


:-p
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '09 Electra Townie Original 21D
User avatar
queequeg
 
Posts: 2769
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:09 am


Return to The Shed

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU



InTouch with BNA
“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter