Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

twizzle · Postby **twizzle** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:59 am

As stated in previous post, I take special care to make sure I've shaken the damned thing up. I used to put it into the measure first, then use a syringe to put it in the tyre, getting all the 'bits' into the tyre was always a challenge... but the last couple of times I've shaken then squirted directly into the tyre.

As for 'why' I get more punctures... probably just a weight thing, lighter riders don't seem to puncture as often as heavier riders. The three holes in the tyre so far have been a screw (I think) and glass in the wet, which always does a good job. But in all three cases the hole on the inside has been tiny and it's just spat the sealant and 'bits' out of the tyre until the pressure drops to the point where I can't ride the bike without the rim bumping the ground.

CoffsGal · Postby **CoffsGal** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:16 pm

twizzle wrote:As stated in previous post, I take special care to make sure I've shaken the damned thing up. I used to put it into the measure first, then use a syringe to put it in the tyre, getting all the 'bits' into the tyre was always a challenge... but the last couple of times I've shaken then squirted directly into the tyre.

When I was operating tubeless Fusion and Stans NoFlats liquid, I also found even very small holes wouldn't seal as well as expected. The liquid sealant did seem very runny (too runny) despite, like you, shaking the bottle well before use.

There are home made sealant recipes on the net that might be more effective and I would be inclined to try them next time.
Dean, formerly of these forums, used this recipe...

twizzle · Postby **twizzle** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:37 pm

There's a bunch of recipes for this stuff, even one using glitter as the medium for plugging the holes but using a car tyre sealant as a base with additional latex. Then again... my time buying ingredients vs. shipping some Joe's... I'll see if I can get latex at the art supply place at the shops or Bunnings, if not it's Joe's.

ironhanglider · Postby **ironhanglider** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:48 pm

Let me know if you can only get latex by the litre or so and you want to defray the cost. The Belco art shops looked at me as if I was mad last time I was asking. It might depend on how you ask though, I think latex is also used as a masking agent.

Cheers,

Cameron

twizzle · Postby **twizzle** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:58 pm

Bunnings doesn't sell it either, but a bunch of hobby places do online.

Next Q - brush or spray latex?!??

ironhanglider · Postby **ironhanglider** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:05 pm

twizzle wrote:Next Q - brush or spray latex?!??

There's a difference? I'd prefer brush but then again I would be using the latex to reattach the backing tape to tubulars, rather than for some fancy goop that might seal a hole.

Cheers,

Cameron

visrealm · Postby **visrealm** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:02 pm

Well - I got around to fitting my tubeless last night. Was pretty easy, took around 45 minutes all up including replacing the rim tape with Stans and adding some Stan's goop.

Fitted them without levers (heard only horror stories about how tight they are)... I only needed levers to unmount one side after the pressure test to pour some Stan's sealant in.

Had no problem with leaking valves -used the Effetto Caffe valves - and did them up as tight as I could by hand.

I managed to inflate them using my floor pump (don't have a presta adaptor for my compressor)... but pumping while bouncing/rotating the wheel seemed to do the trick...

And even better, they held 100psi overnight

. Have yet to try them out though as I'm crook

Will report back after a test ride (hopefully this weekend).

twizzle · Postby **twizzle** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:57 pm

ironhanglider wrote:
twizzle wrote:Next Q - brush or spray latex?!??
There's a difference? I'd prefer brush but then again I would be using the latex to reattach the backing tape to tubulars, rather than for some fancy goop that might seal a hole.

Cheers,

Cameron

Bingo - ACT Fibre Glass Supplies in Fyshwick sells liquid latex. Might ride past there tomorrow and check out what they sell.

And a link to a doc listing latex suppliers by state...

PS - might have been saved by the latex today, tyres were inflated to 100psi yesterday morning, but the rear was down to 60psi when I got to work this morning, but no sign of a cut or latex anywhere.

rider_1 · Postby **rider_1** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:27 pm

tubeless tyre should be used with tubeless rim, it will reduce your weight but you must carry a tubeless tyre in your pocket for a spare, it's good for racing with backup ready, but troublesome for daily training, you get the puncture, you will be in trouble, since you need to glue the tyre into the rim before you can use it and you need to clean up your rim first before you install a new tyre, that's enough trouble already for a daily training.

rogerrabbit · Postby **rogerrabbit** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:26 pm

You are referring to tubular tyres rather than the tubeless tyre system, which I am now using on a new Giant with SLR-1 tubeless rims. So far so good, but I didn't have to fit the tyres

Roger

twizzle · Postby **twizzle** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:14 pm

Hmmmm.... got down to the cage 8 hours later, there's a damp patch on the tyre and a lump of glass. I dug the glass out and it started leaking immediately, and was difficult to get sealant to work as I'd spun the wheel and the sealant took about 10 second to run down to the bottom of the tyre again. After a while it seemed to seal, so I just rode it home and didn't lose much air... but I'm not sure if this is 'success' or 'failure'.

eeksll · Postby **eeksll** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:03 pm

twizzle wrote:Hmmmm.... got down to the cage 8 hours later, there's a damp patch on the tyre and a lump of glass. I dug the glass out and it started leaking immediately, and was difficult to get sealant to work as I'd spun the wheel and the sealant took about 10 second to run down to the bottom of the tyre again. After a while it seemed to seal, so I just rode it home and didn't lose much air... but I'm not sure if this is 'success' or 'failure'.

personally not a tubeless user.

But if all you have to do is pump it back up when you get home, I count that as a win. And learn for next time? ie dig the glass out after you have all the sealant above the hole?

If you have to go home and top up more sealant .... well thats a 50-50. But probably still a small win.

twizzle · Postby **twizzle** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:49 pm

'Repair' currently won't hold more than 60psi... but I can't be arsed fixing it yet.

And with tubeless you are supposed to remove the offending object.

Ross · Postby **Ross** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:08 am

Tubeless seems like such a hassle and if Twizzle's experiences are anything to go by don't work particularily well. I'll stick with GP4000S and a tube.

boyracer · Postby **boyracer** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:47 am

What about a commuter? Bigger ballon tyres like 35-40mm seem to run at ~60 psi. Would these be suitable for MTB style goo/rimtape or still too high pressure.
I use 28mm gators/tubes at 90 psi but would happily run 35 + if it meant no more puntures. Save at least 20 mins commuting time ...the extra allocated for puncture repairs if necessary.

twizzle · Postby **twizzle** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:00 am

I managed to get it to hold 100psi overnight, after it started to leak again last night I rotated the hole to the bottom and left it overnight. But I rode to work in the rain this morning... we'll see how it is tonight.

It's a shame that it's a technology that offers so much then fails to deliver.

I didn't have time to chase up liquid latex on the weekend, I might just order some online. Or get some of the "Joes" stuff. Decisions, decisions...

eeksll · Postby **eeksll** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:35 am

twizzle, is it possible you have a dodgy batch? It does not seem that others are having as many issues as you.

Also can't remember from all the posts, are you actually using a UST tyre and have you tried putting in more sealant e.g double the amount?

where does it leak from?

twizzle · Postby **twizzle** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:46 am

eeksll wrote:twizzle, is it possible you have a dodgy batch? It does not seem that others are having as many issues as you.

Also can't remember from all the posts, are you actually using a UST tyre and have you tried putting in more sealant e.g double the amount?

where does it leak from?

Just read the last couple of pages, it's all in there.

Crawf · Postby **Crawf** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:17 pm

The rim design and size will be another determining factor in the initial sealing process, A23's and Alpha 340's seal great within a few shakes of the rim, the Deep V's I installed on the weekend took around 2 minutes of shaking to properly seal, the tyre's also installed very, very easily compared to any other rims I have used - indicating they were probably ever so slightly looser around the bead and rim. I always drop in 60ml per tyre.

Cruiserman · Postby **Cruiserman** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:03 pm

Ross wrote:Tubeless seems like such a hassle and if Twizzle's experiences are anything to go by don't work particularily well. I'll stick with GP4000S and a tube.

How are they a hassle. Twizzle seems to be able to puncture a solid tyre. I would not put a tube in a tyre on a bike again - much like my car really - oh hang on cross plys with tubes should tame the 6.0l V8 nicely... I was getting two punctures per week commuting to work when I swapped to intensive tubeless. 8 punctures in 2400k then 1 in the following 5600k when I hit a hole with a fairly worn rear and put a split across the face. (should really patch it up and keep it for a spare). So much hassle not worrying about punctures. Still riding exactly the same route as the previous pre tubeless setup.
Son went out for a ride on Saturday and I noticed his intensives a little squishy in the rear. When I looked I found a large chunck of glass in there, he would have been changing the tube for sure, now it just needs pumping back to pressure and riding on again. However you may well be right maybe they don't work too well - or perhaps you should try them for yourself before making a judgment.

CoffsGal · Postby **CoffsGal** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:18 pm

eeksll wrote:twizzle, is it possible you have a dodgy batch? It does not seem that others are having as many issues as you.

I have definitely wondered that same thing about my batch...which was purchased around the same time as twizzle...from Wiggle I think...it just seems way too runny...I feel that a thicker goo would improve the sealing capability.

When I left a cap full of the stans goo exposed to the air, it was still runny after many weeks...doesn't seem right to me...

twizzle · Postby **twizzle** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:44 am

CoffsGal wrote:
eeksll wrote:twizzle, is it possible you have a dodgy batch? It does not seem that others are having as many issues as you.
I have definitely wondered that same thing about my batch...which was purchased around the same time as twizzle...from Wiggle I think...it just seems way too runny...I feel that a thicker goo would improve the sealing capability.

When I left a cap full of the stans goo exposed to the air, it was still runny after many weeks...doesn't seem right to me...

Interesting thought - I did buy mine from Wiggle, and it's never worked as expected.

But... when I first fit a wheel, it often leaks around the beads until I've run the latex around the inside of the wheel, and when I pull one off there is a good coating of latex around the beads. Maybe the 'bits' in the latex are all being used up in sealing the beads? Re. being able to plug a 1/4" hole, recently when pouring from the container, it actually blocked the hole in the end of the spot... so it does work from that aspect - at low pressure..

I'm still thinking this stuff just doesn't work with road tyre pressures. As of today... riding the wheel without patching that hole is making it leak, keeps on dropping back to around 60psi.

visrealm · Postby **visrealm** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:43 pm

visrealm wrote:Will report back after a test ride (hopefully this weekend).

Well I must say, the Fusion 3's feel fantastic. I can't really comment on their long-term durability obviously, but initial impressions are really positive. Very smooth (probably due to lower pressure). Very grippy - they have quite a resassuring sound when rolling. They hold pressure really well (at least as well as my tubes did).

Planning to do a 125Km ride on them this weekend.

twizzle · Postby **twizzle** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:13 pm

The intensive from the rear is hanging on the wall of the cage downstairs, first a cut through the sidewall, then about 10km later a holed tube. Ordering some Joes Road Race sealant from the U.K., I'll give it one more try...

jcjordan · Postby **jcjordan** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:22 pm

Ross wrote:Tubeless seems like such a hassle and if Twizzle's experiences are anything to go by don't work particularily well. I'll stick with GP4000S and a tube.

I have to agree, not only is the effort high but the benefits low.
CONS
- can’t run a high enough pressure
- tires cost more
- still have to carry spare tubes
- messy to deal with
- really need to use a limited number of wheels with the specific rim
PRO
- maybe the tire won’t go down as quick
- lower weight (doubtful once you take into account the sealant)
- less pinch flats (I normally only get those when I hit something hard, once every 6-12 months)
- less rolling resistance (but compared to the normal pressure I like to run would most likely be higher than non-tubeless)
If I am going to go to all that trouble I may as well run Tubs. Can carry an old tire as a spare under the seat instead of the saddle bag, so about the same weight.