Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

twizzle wrote:

twizzle wrote:O.K., rear at 40psi when I got to work this morning...

Well, after a few rides (the final one being 100km) all of the sealant disappeared forcing me to pull the tyre and patch it. Followed by the incredible struggle to get the bloody tyre to seal up again. Compressor definitely doesn't work, only a CO2 cart - and it has to be a fresh one and you need to open the valve quickly.

When cleaning up the tyre to fit it back on, the latex strings from the bead area made an impressive ball, so I decided that after riding for a couple of weeks I should add some sealant as a lot was being 'used' in sealing the beads. Big mistake. Apart from latex dribbling out the beads everywhere I got to watch little jets of CO2 vapour escaping all around the rim and I ended up using 3 Co2 carts to get it back on - first one wasn't 100% full, second I didn't open the valve quickly enough. In the end, I'm not even sure I managed to add selant, given how much leaked out while trying to get the tyre to seal up again.

When the tyres are new, the beads want to push up again the rim... but once the tyre has been used, the un-inflated shape completely changes and the beads don't push against the rim anymore.

Thanks for your candor which makes for amusing reading. I'll keep my tubes for now.

hotshod wrote:Still keen to hear what others think of tubeless in general...

My F3's have done nearly 2,000Km. I run them at 90/100 psi front/reat (I'm 100Kg). Running them on regular Fulcrum 3's (not the 2-way fit model). Before tubeless, was running my clinchers at 125psi and was flatting regularly (mostly pinch flats).

Love the ride they give - very grippy and absorb alot of road buzz. As for wear, I'm pretty confident I'll get 5,000Kms+ out of the front. The rear has started to wear a flat section around the middle, and has a few small surface cuts however if I've had any punctures in the 2,000Kms I certainly haven't noticed - I run 30ml of Stans in each. (I'm guessing I haven't had any). They hold pressure great usually within 5-10psi when I check... I check before every ride anyway.

Not sure how much more I'll get out of the rear, I'm guessing another 1,000 - 2,000Kms. I do carry a tube and pump just in case however I haven't needed either yet (touch carbon). I've just (last week) purchased a spare F3 to keep in my shed as I wouldn't like to be without them if I do happen to trash a tyre. I also just purchased a new set of Stan's valves to replace the Caffelatex tubeless valves (when I need to replace the tyres) as I did have some trouble getting them to seat nicely originally and the rear Caffelatex valve is *just* long enough for the deeper profile of the rear fulcrum 3.

So that's about it - so far 2,000Kms, very happy customer indeed.

Nobody wrote:Thanks for your candor which makes for amusing reading. I'll keep my tubes for now.

Just as well really cant have you taking on any of this new technology - particularly seeing as the tyres have carbon beads and they may just explode into carbon dust while you are riding them.

twizzle wrote:

twizzle wrote:O.K., rear at 40psi when I got to work this morning...

Well, after a few rides (the final one being 100km) all of the sealant disappeared forcing me to pull the tyre and patch it. Followed by the incredible struggle to get the bloody tyre to seal up again. Compressor definitely doesn't work, only a CO2 cart - and it has to be a fresh one and you need to open the valve quickly.

When cleaning up the tyre to fit it back on, the latex strings from the bead area made an impressive ball, so I decided that after riding for a couple of weeks I should add some sealant as a lot was being 'used' in sealing the beads. Big mistake. Apart from latex dribbling out the beads everywhere I got to watch little jets of CO2 vapour escaping all around the rim and I ended up using 3 Co2 carts to get it back on - first one wasn't 100% full, second I didn't open the valve quickly enough. In the end, I'm not even sure I managed to add selant, given how much leaked out while trying to get the tyre to seal up again.

When the tyres are new, the beads want to push up again the rim... but once the tyre has been used, the un-inflated shape completely changes and the beads don't push against the rim anymore.

twizzle wrote: You seem to be the unluckiest bloke in the world with punctures and tyres in general Twizz - Perhaps you should get some solid rubber coverings for your rims. I cannot imagine what you are doing to make such hard work of putting the tyres on the rims. I cant seal mine with a floor pump but a compressor or a single C02 make the job quick and easy.

Had a glass cut the other day on the way to work 3k into a 30k ride. Tyre had about 40psi left in it when I got to work. I cut up a piece of an old tube (cause I dont need them anymore) and smeared a little glue on it. Poked it through the tyre with a jewellers screwdriver and cut off the excess. Pumped the tyre back up and have since done 300k - would have been a lot more but weather and other committments are conspiring to keep my K's lower than I would like this year.

At last! Looks like a 28mm tyre is coming.
Though their tyres do have a habit of being less mm than actually stated.

http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/06/20/hut ... ross-more/

Front puncture again, I think I had stans in it - it just kept squirting out of the hole if I tried to ride it, so I gave up and put a tube in. Given the thickness of the bloody tyre (Hutchinson Intensive), it should be just about impossible to cut.

And with my last order from the U.K., they had the Cafe Latex "giant syringe" for putting sealent in wheels through the valve - don't bother, people, it doesn't work with sealants with have the 'beads' in the latex. It comes with a schrader/presta valve setup, but the schraeder valve has a 'bridge' to push the valve in, which allowed the particles to form a plug a good 5cm long in the tube. By the time I'd worked this out, all I had left was latex without particles... So.... Joes "Road Racer", straight from the small bottle down the valve hole is still the best approach for using latex with tubes.

twizzle wrote:Front puncture again, I think I had stans in it - it just kept squirting out of the hole if I tried to ride it, so I gave up and put a tube in. Given the thickness of the bloody tyre (Hutchinson Intensive), it should be just about impossible to cut.

Try this on a cut that is struggling to seal.
Flip the bike over, rotate the wheel so the cut is at the bottom (closest to ground) so all the sealant drains to the section, hold your finger over the cut for about a min, this will hopefully give the sealant a bit more of chance to plug the gap with your finger there, jump back on and ride. If still spitting after a minute or 2... throw in the tube
Only had to do this once now, the other 4 time it eventually sealed once the pressure got low enough, I think too much psi and the sealant struggles against the high psi.

Crawf wrote:

twizzle wrote:Front puncture again, I think I had stans in it - it just kept squirting out of the hole if I tried to ride it, so I gave up and put a tube in. Given the thickness of the bloody tyre (Hutchinson Intensive), it should be just about impossible to cut.

Try this on a cut that is struggling to seal.
Flip the bike over, rotate the wheel so the cut is at the bottom (closest to ground) so all the sealant drains to the section, hold your finger over the cut for about a min, this will hopefully give the sealant a bit more of chance to plug the gap with your finger there, jump back on and ride.

Did effectively the same - waited with the cut at the bottom, rotated up after it sealed and waited a couple of minutes so that the selant had some time to cure, but after starting to ride again it would start squirting sealant out of the hole after about 30 seconds. In the end, despite still having sealant in the tyre, it just wouldn't seal at all because the beads were gone. I gave up at that point.

Had my first roadside repair last night. A cut the full height of the sidewall was too much for the sealant to fix. My thoughts on the roadside repair:

Yes the sealant creates a mess that isn't there with the traditional tube arrangement.
The sealant also acts as a lubricant making it easier to get the tyre back on after repairing with a boot and inserting a tube.
Not having the punctured inner tube to pump up and find the hole in means searching the tyre for damage without any idea of the location although a cut as large as mine wasn't too difficult to spot.
A tubeless valve is much easier to fit back in the saddlebag compared to rolling up a punctured inner tube to fit back in.

The tyre had over 2400km on it, previously I'd consider it a good run to go 1000km without having to fix a puncture.

Im almost over my Hutchinson Intensives - frankly i seem to get as many fatal punctures with these as i was getting with gatorskins.
Im wondering if there would be any advantage (and whether it can be done) to have gatorskins, with a tube with the stans inside the tube - at 118kgs Im not worried about any extra weight this may entail.

Stickybeak wrote:Im almost over my Hutchinson Intensives - frankly i seem to get as many fatal punctures with these as i was getting with gatorskins.
Im wondering if there would be any advantage (and whether it can be done) to have gatorskins, with a tube with the stans inside the tube - at 118kgs Im not worried about any extra weight this may entail.

As long as you have a tube with removable valve core it can be done. As to how well it works I have very little experience. Limited to one ride with someone who was using a sealant (no idea whether it was stans or another) who got a puncture that would not seal. If you have some sealant handy then it wouldn't hurt to try it and see how you go.

I have now completed 4000 ks on the Hutch F3 setup, still yet to experience a puncture. The rear tyre is starting to square off a bit , but not excessively. My guess would be that the rear will get 7000k+ providing I don't experience any major failures or large glass/metal slashes.The front looks almost new after 4000..... still visable is the centre molding line.
Tyres hold pressure, dropping 2-4 psi per 48hrs.At 72kg I'm running 80/90psi and roll extremely well on Campag Zonda wheels ( not 2-way)

The only hiccup I have had was 2 weeks ago.....
I have a habit of tweeking the valve nut,almost every time I pump the tyres I wind or check the valve securing nut ,mostly it would be about one/20th of a turn, just a smidge if anything.
So when removing my floor pump chuck I pulled the valve through the rim,thus into the inner cavity of the rim...... followed by expletive after expletive and total loss of air.
The problem was resloved later that day by forcing the valve back though, it was torn and destroyed by then.
The valve was a Stans 44mm with a round stopper, and this valve had provided the best seal from my intial testing and setup.But it was of some concern that this could happen. I suspect this happen because I tweeked it too often and also the Campag Zonda rim ( non 2-way ) has a quite ovalised drill hole where the valve mounts. I guess this oval valve hole is why other valves had not sealed that well, my first valves were the Hutchinsons with a rectangular rubber stopper and they were tricky to get to seal , Stans were the best but maybe not perfect for this rim.
I have now installed 1 valve , not too sure of the brand , it is either a Shimano or Mavic, it has a rectangular stopper and rounded on the base where it engages with the rim, and is working well and would be impossible to drag thru the rim.... BUT it was not till after I had installed it I realised it didn't have a removable core, having a compressor that was not a big deal , but not what a I wanted,though if it works ,it works....

As for the Hutch F3 and clocking up 4000ks I think they are fantastic mostly for the way they ride and absorb broken road surface , the fact that I haven't had a puncture is a bonus, I can't see myself ever going back to regular HP clinchers, though I'm still waiting for more tyre manufactures to come on board with more tubeless options, till then the Fusion 3 is my tyre of choice.

Cheers
Greg
Alstonville

If anyone in brisbane wants a ready to ride setup, I listed some Fulcrum 3's (2-way) with used intensives in marketplace for $300. I'll put sealant in for buyer.

http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewt ... 25&t=56121

I reported early that I thought I'd get 7000 from my rear Fusion3 , but as it started to show patches of canvass and I replaced it at 5100ks.
Still that was 5100ks without a puncture, so I'm happy with that.

It would seem that 2013 will bring a few more manufacturers into the tubeless market.
The new Bontragers are available now , and Schwable Ultremo tubeless are also available overseas,along with the Maxxis Padrone.
It should be interesting to see if the new entrants are lighter and as durable as the Hutch F3

BTW I bought those Fulcrum 3s 2-ways from "waynohh".... great deal and my wife loves them.

cheers

hotshod wrote:I reported early that I thought I'd get 7000 from my rear Fusion3 , but as it started to show patches of canvass and I replaced it at 5100ks.
Still that was 5100ks without a puncture, so I'm happy with that.

It would seem that 2013 will bring a few more manufacturers into the tubeless market.
The new Bontragers are available now , and Schwable Ultremo tubeless are also available overseas,along with the Maxxis Padrone.
It should be interesting to see if the new entrants are lighter and as durable as the Hutch F3

BTW I bought those Fulcrum 3s 2-ways from "waynohh".... great deal and my wife loves them.

cheers

I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the Schwalbes
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Thin ... _2852.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Crawf wrote:
I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the Schwalbes
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Thin ... _2852.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes indeed , I have read some of the PR blurb that came from Eurobike and Interbike where they we first displayed to the public.

The company is claiming it is the fastest road tyre they have ever produced ..... bar none.

Faster than any Schwable clinchers or tubulars ....... that will surprise a few non-believers.
Plus ,they also said that Team Nissin Trek Radio Shack have been using them and my cycling hero Fabian Cancellara is also a fan of the speed and comfort of the Schwable Ultremo Tubeless.

I'll definitely putting a pair on my Zondas.....

Greg

sblack wrote:As long as you have a tube with removable valve core it can be done. As to how well it works I have very little experience.

I've run Stan's inside my tubulars (buggers to change the tubes in ). It works, and well. With the "but" that you can get a hard lump between the tube and the tyre. No worse than a patch but noticeable. Mind you- this is on pretty soft tubulars, so gatorskins should be better behaved.

It's alive!
I'm reading reports that the new Secteur 28mm's have hit stores in the US.
Just waiting for the UK stock to come in now...

hotshod wrote:

Crawf wrote:
I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the Schwalbes
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Thin ... _2852.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes indeed , I have read some of the PR blurb that came from Eurobike and Interbike where they we first displayed to the public.

The company is claiming it is the fastest road tyre they have ever produced ..... bar none.

Faster than any Schwable clinchers or tubulars ....... that will surprise a few non-believers.
Plus ,they also said that Team Nissin Trek Radio Shack have been using them and my cycling hero Fabian Cancellara is also a fan of the speed and comfort of the Schwable Ultremo Tubeless.

I'll definitely putting a pair on my Zondas.....

Greg

Hoping to try them out soon. Bike Discount are listing the kit as in stock so I ordered one on the weekend. We'll see how long it takes to get here.

Except shipping is $25 My BD orders took 9-14 days. DHL de certainly ain't the fastest

I also saw Bontrager tubeless in the shop on the weekend. Many more brand options now available compared to when this thread started.
Hopefully there is also an improvement in durability performance with these new products.
I look forward to hearing users' experiences.

CoffsGal wrote:I also saw Bontrager tubeless in the shop on the weekend. Many more brand options now available compared to when this thread started.
Hopefully there is also an improvement in durability performance with these new products.
I look forward to hearing users' experiences.

How much?
Been trying to get my mitts on those as well but Evans won't ship them to Aus, and I certainly won't be paying $90+ a tyre for any clincher locally. They don't make it easy for us.

Crawf wrote: How much?
Been trying to get my mitts on those as well but Evans won't ship them to Aus, and I certainly won't be paying $90+ a tyre for any clincher locally. They don't make it easy for us.

I didn't notice the price but it seems they would be available at most Bontrager outlets (Trek). My LBS had both 23mm and 25mm versions.

Website details for tyres...
http://bontrager.com/model/10991" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Website details for tubeless kit...
http://bontrager.com/model/11383" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The site has a 'Find a retailer' link

They're here! Hopefully get a chance to fit them tonight.

IMHO the only advantage to tubeless is if you don't have 55gram tubes and would proberbly need more than about 40ml of fluid in the tyre. I wouldn't use tubeless for road, only for pure racing as if you get a sidewall pinch you won't be able to get the tyre inflated again and will need to use a tube.