Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Crawf
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby Crawf » Wed May 15, 2013 2:03 pm

Mozzar wrote:IMHO the only advantage to tubeless is if you don't have 55gram tubes and would proberbly need more than about 40ml of fluid in the tyre. I wouldn't use tubeless for road, only for pure racing as if you get a sidewall pinch you won't be able to get the tyre inflated again and will need to use a tube.


Thanks for your input :roll:

Crawf
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby Crawf » Fri May 17, 2013 8:32 am

sblack wrote:Image
They're here! Hopefully get a chance to fit them tonight.


Well, well, well? :)

They were on Starbike for about 24hrs before going out of stock - $109 delivered for a pair incl Doc Blue, that's a sweet price.

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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby eeksll » Fri May 17, 2013 5:15 pm

Any one found any good informative reviews about the new Doc Blue sealant and how they compare to existing?

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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby RideLikeTheWind » Sat May 18, 2013 4:02 pm

I have decided to give the tubeless system a try. Hutchinson tyres and stans sealant on my Fulcrum 3 (clincher). I usually end up with tiny metal particles or glass punctures. The one before the last one was a massive sidewall slash that ruined a tyre, the last one was the same except the tyre is holding together, although the tube is toast.

I'm hoping I wont have too many issues with the setup - I am thinking about running a tube on the front regardless, as I rarely (if ever) get front wheel flats, so I would have a backup tyre for the rear if it gets totaled. I see how it goes... Ordering from Wiggle this week.
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sblack
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby sblack » Mon May 20, 2013 8:34 pm

eeksll wrote:Any one found any good informative reviews about the new Doc Blue sealant and how they compare to existing?

Doc Blue is rebadged Stans. Schwalbe have stated that in their press releases and it says produced by Stans or something similar to that on the bottle.

Crawf wrote:Well, well, well? :)
Well, I'm hoping I'm just unlucky. Haven't had much time on them yet, just a few short commutes, but they do roll very nicely. However, after riding through a section of roadworks with considerable debris I heard the sound of escaping air. Slowed to a stop and went to find the source but there was no chance of sealing this one. Here's a shot of it after fitting a $5 tyre boot and tube.
Image
I'm hoping it was just a case of riding over the wrong bit of debris and not a sign of the tyres durability. The light scratches on the rim directly in line with the cut seam to be a good indication that the debris was not too friendly. Now I am contemplating the best way to repair the tyre if it is possible. I should note that compared to getting a similar cut on a tubed tyre in the past, which resulted in an instant flat tyre, the tubeless tyre with sealant may not have prevented the flat but it did slow the deflation enough for me to have time to safely pull of the road, stop and dismount before becoming too flat to ride on.

So I didn't get a chance for any real test ride which is quite a disappointment as my only real review of any value would be to the fitting process. The tyres where fitted to American Classic Argent rims and since I had it handy I went straight for the compressed air rather than bothering with a track pump. First part of the process and it was time to try out the Easy Fit supplied with the kit. Easy Fit seams like a bottle of soap suds with an applicator similar to scuff stuff shoe polish. No major breakthrough compared to using soapy water but it is convenient and mess free. It also evaporates away more quickly than when I've used a soapy water mix but that could just be because the more controlled application means there's less there in the first place. In any case it does the job it's supposed to and because so little is used there will be enough in the bottle to last for many sets of tyres.

The tyre goes onto the rim much easier than the Fusion 3s did. Even refitting the used and stretched Fusion 3 after the sidewall cut incident proved significantly more difficult at fitting than the brand new Ultremo had.

Inflating the tyre and as expected with the compressed air their is no issue gaining a seal and quickly coming up to pressure. However the distinctive sound of the bead popping into place is absent and even as the pressure climbs well above where this should occur and the maximum recommended pressure before I decide it's not going to happen. The bead appears even and properly seated the whole way round the tyre though. Letting all the pressure out and the sound of it popping back of the bead is apparent as the last bit of air comes out. I add the sealant and inflate again. This time more slowly and note a very quiet quiet pop of the tyre bead popping over the last bit of the bead barb on the rim. No wonder I hadn't heard it before. While a GP4000 and a Fusion 3 produce notably different sounds to each other when popping into place they are both reasonably loud while the Ultremo struggles to be heard over the air rushing from my tank to fill the tyre.
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Cruiserman
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby Cruiserman » Mon May 20, 2013 9:23 pm

try glueing a patch on the inside of the tyre, roughen it up a bit with abrasive. I found patches to work OK on some very worn intensives in a test just prior to replacing them.
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby Crawf » Tue May 21, 2013 11:50 am

Bugger, i'd be weary of patching something so big with no tube pushing against it. Little 2-3mm slashes yes, but that's pretty big.
My 28mm are on the way :)

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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby Cruiserman » Tue May 21, 2013 5:25 pm

air pressure is pushing against the patch unlike patching a tube where the force is trying to blow the patch off and the tyre is helping to hold it on. Seeing as the tyre is pretty much toast it cant hurt to try, gentle riding afterwoods to see how the repair holds up.
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby Crawf » Tue May 28, 2013 9:13 am

My Sectaur 28's are on and have about 300km on them. On a rim with an internal width of 14.9mm they are measuring about 26.5mm wide - so still narrow, but i'm happy with the width, they may even expand out 27-28mm after a few weeks use.
If they were on an A23 or similar widish rim then they would probably be right on 28mm wide, but my rim is the reducing factor here.
They roll extremely well, haven't noticed the weight difference and the improved comfort & handling is great. I cant see myself buying atoms/fusions/intensives again. I'm very tempted to put these on the race wheelset.

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YouAgainstMe
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby YouAgainstMe » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:50 pm

I just tried putting hutchinson fusion 3's on my fulcrum 1's but couldnt get them to seal, cracked the shits big time and went back to conti 4000's :lol: . I tried everything including using compressor but couldnt get them to bed no matter what. If anyone wants to pick up a cheaper set with sealant then check my post in the sales section.
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YouAgainstMe
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby YouAgainstMe » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:22 pm

What's the go with tubeless these days? They seem to be rare as hens teeth on th likes of wiggle theses days? I love tubeless and want to get some wider ones but there slim pickings on the bigger sites. Do ppl think they are already on their way out?
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby Blakeylonger » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:13 pm

low supply and high demand? The Schwalbes have never been that readily available.

best "road" tyre, but 28s are often hard to come by:
http://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;n ... duct=62612

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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby Thoglette » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:02 pm

YouAgainstMe wrote: They seem to be rare as hens teeth on th likes of wiggle theses days? ... Do ppl think they are already on their way out?

Seems Wiggle have moved on to The Next Big Thing already :D

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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby ianK » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:18 pm

Bikebug locally seem to have supply most of the time. Pretty much the best price on the planet to boot - which is nice! I have bought a few pair from them.

http://www.bikebug.com/schwalbe-one-tubeless-tyre-p-36991.html

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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby cancan64 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:34 am

My problem is getting to fobs tubeless valves that will fit 50mm carbon rims..
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby Duck! » Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:34 am

Most (but not all) tubeless valves have removeable cores; get a pair of these & fit a regular extension that you then screw the valve into.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby cancan64 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:18 pm

Duck! wrote:Most (but not all) tubeless valves have removeable cores; get a pair of these & fit a regular extension that you then screw the valve into.


the problem there is that the valve extenders that I have found are not threaded so you cant fit a lock nut to seal the valve...
“Some say he isn’t machine washable, and all his potted plants are called ‘Steve’.

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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby Crawf » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:38 pm

You need to get the Stans valve extensions which are externally threaded.

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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby jcjordan » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:06 pm

Continental Val's are also threaded
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby CoffsGal » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:34 pm

jcjordan wrote:Continental Val's are also threaded

When I last looked, the Conti valve extenders weren't threaded, but maybe that has changed.

Crawf wrote:You need to get the Stans valve extensions which are externally threaded.


The Stan's extenders can be bought direct from Stan's but the freight is a killer

Jet Black also have the Stan's extenders (unknown price)

Cycling Express also have the Stan's extenders ($24.90)

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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby ianK » Sat May 02, 2015 7:43 pm

A few days ago when riding back from an early morning ride I ran over some junk in the dark and put a sizable puncture in the front tire (Schwable One). Stopped the bike and spun the wheel so the hole was at the bottom - goo hissing out everywhere. After about five or so seconds the hissing stopped - felt the tire - low on pressure but certainly rideable.

As I was only a couple of k from home I just jumped on and rode home slowly. Had I been further from home, I probably would have waited a little longer and then pumped the tire up.

All in all the tubeless did what it was supposed to - the hole self sealed (Bontrager sealant) and the bike was still rideable.

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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby cancan64 » Mon May 04, 2015 12:46 pm

I went to set up my CX wheels tubeless. I have tubeless rims but normal tyres but google said it can work and it nearly did. the tyre just did not seal on the rim. adding the goo helped but next day it was a bit low so I thought I would pump it up to a wee bit above the limit in the hope that the tyre would bite to the rim better but it decided to let go. took me a while to clean all the goo off the dining room/lounge room and kitchen.
A tube is back in there now
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby PiratePete » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:43 pm

I've just jumped on this band wagon too. But unlike most I'm more interested in the claim of a lower rolling resistance and improved comfort. I've been using Schwalbe Marathon Supreme tyres for a bit over 18 months and having covered 13000km without a single puncture, so this issue of punctures is fading from my mind... (Now that I think of it I shouldn't have said that :lol: ).

I found that the new (Tubeless) version of the Supreme's mounted easier than the non-tubeless and with two layers of Stans tape the solution was airtight without sealant (inflated to 100psi and left for 90 minutes, result front 99 and rear 100 psi). But given that I mentioned no punctures in 13000km, I've added 60ml of Stans goop in each just in case. A little confused as to how much goop is needed, Schwalbe says 30ml, Stans suggests 60ml minimum. I guess the more that's in there means that more can spray out while sealing a puncture, thus is more likely to work, but adds more weight...

I use 700x35 tyres on my Specialized Diverge, I've set the tyres to 58f/68r which is what I ran the tubed version of the same tyre at. I've only ridden around the block at this stage and it feels more compliant, but also feels harder in places. Difficult to explain but quite different to before. Tomorrow is the real test, I will hopefully be able to knock off a century ride on roads I'm very familiar and get a better understanding of the differences.

Overall so far the process has been easier than many have suggested, and I'm glad that my tyre/rim combo is airtight without needing sealant, quite a bit different to much of the googled results have suggested. This hopefully leaves the goop as a backup rather than as a mandatory item for the tyres to hold air.
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby Duck! » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:33 pm

[quote="PiratePete"...I've added 60ml of Stans goop in each just in case. A little confused as to how much goop is needed, Schwalbe says 30ml, Stans suggests 60ml minimum.[/quote]
For road tyres 30ml is ample; the quoted 60ml is coming from Stan's original MTB target. If you're using wider road tyres, shoot the middle ground & chuck about 45ml in next time.

Useless trivia: Schwalbe Doc Blue and Stan's sealant are exactly the same stuff - the fine print on the Schwalbe labels says "made by Stan's".
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby PiratePete » Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:05 pm

Duck! wrote:Useless trivia: Schwalbe Doc Blue and Stan's sealant are exactly the same stuff - the fine print on the Schwalbe labels says "made by Stan's".


Yes, I had read that, hence the confusion, why should 30ml of Doc Blue be adequate when Stan's needs more than double?? A sales pitch perhaps? I went with 60ml figuring that more goop is more likely to result in the puncture being plugged.

The other observation is that the Stan's tape says one roll is enough for four 700/29'er rims. I've done two and I wouldn't start a third with whats left. I can only assume that your good for 4 if only doing one layer, but they say to do two. That's one to remember if your ordering supplies to do more than one set of rims... The 25mm tape was perfect for my rims with a 21mm internal width.
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