I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

amt
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I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

Postby amt » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:37 pm

I can understand most people including myself wanting to upgrade parts to the next model. For me I'm not so sure on some parts in particular. My bike has Ultegra groupset but having a look at the parts and price between the three top models its difficult to justify unless there is a significant perfomance difference.

So I'm considering replacement parts the chain and the cassette. To my mind after research and reading the many threads on the topic there's no advantage to using more expensive parts if they don't give better performance or indeed weigh substantially less.

Prices from PBK

Chain:
105 $44.74 280g
Ultegra $51.74 280g
Dura Ace $66.03 280g

Cassette 10spd
105 5600 $83.63 219g
Ultegra 6600 $98.84 235g what's going on here its heavier :shock:
Dura Ace 7800 $238.24 173g

I do want to find from you what is the life of a chain and cassette, yes I know this will depend on various factors so I will qualify the question with my riding. I average 150-200km a week with only a few rides in the wet by that I mean around 500km a year. TIA.

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Re: I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

Postby Pushy » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:27 pm

Did that a few months ago, now riding a 105 cassett and chain and I could not tell the difference. Well it was actually an improvement due to a worrn cassett and chain.
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Re: I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

Postby Chaderotti » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:58 pm

I guess it's just different material. Might be a heavier cassette but it could be made of Unobatainium with a half life of 200 million years, which roughly translates to about 2.3x10^15 km's of use.
Basically, downgrading makes sense unless you got the dough to splurge. :mrgreen:
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Christine Tham
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Re: I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

Postby Christine Tham » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:26 am

Pushy wrote:Did that a few months ago, now riding a 105 cassett and chain and I could not tell the difference. Well it was actually an improvement due to a worrn cassett and chain.
I just replaced a 105 cassette with Ultegra, and it shifts a lot faster and more accurately. Again, the improvement could simply be the difference between worn and new, but the old cassette looked pretty good (I changed wheelsets, hence bought a new cassette, as the old one stays with the old wheelset).

In my mind, the difference in price between Ultegra and 105 was worth it. If Ultegra was double the price, I probably would have stayed with 105.
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Rockford
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Re: I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

Postby Rockford » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:46 am

Are you comparing the same cassette configs for weight? As different ones will give different weights

Ultegra
11-23 204g
12-27 239g

But that is bugger all weight difference in either case.

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Re: I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

Postby thomas_cho » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:55 pm

I routinely switch between 105, Ultegra cassettes as I have them on different bikes, and I cant tell the difference. The shifting is just as good on either bike.

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Re: I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

Postby lukas » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:25 pm

I guess it comes down to how much that $7 per chain and $35 per cassette means to you.

I've swapped between 105, Ultegra and DA chains and haven't noticed a great difference, but have noticed a difference between 105 and ultegra cassettes.

If you're hellbent on saving the cash, then definitely go for 105, because at the end of the day it'll still do the job. If your priority is better performance then look at Ultegra.
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Re: I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

Postby geoffs » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:29 pm

My wife only weighs 50kg and doesn't do big miles so I have a dura-ace cassette on her bike. I weigh over 90 and don't see the point of worrying about a grams. 105 works fine for me. no difference is noticable.
Other parts are all dura-ace

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Re: I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

Postby Christine Tham » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:49 am

lukas wrote:I guess it comes down to how much that $7 per chain and $35 per cassette means to you.
Is is really that much difference? I bought my Ultegra cassette for around A$75.

Oh, I just realised 9 speed pricing is very different from 10 speed. In particular, Ultegra 9 speed pricing seems to be a lot lower, and also very similar to 105 pricing.
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Re: I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

Postby colafreak » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:31 am

PLEASE NOTE - THE QUESTION IS MOOT

Chains and cassettes are not branded 105 or Ultegra, they are branded "Hyper Glide" and then the model number.

I recently pulled apart the rear wheel of an "Ultegra" specced bike and it had the same hyperglide model number as my 105 equipped bike.

Unfortunately I can't remember the model number (6600, maybe?).

If you consult 3 websites for the weights of bike parts, you'll get 4 answers, the variations you've found between "ultegra" and "105" chains/cassettes are just due to other factors (eg. number of sprockets).

If someone wants to sell you an "ultegra" chain, you're being ripped off.
Please pardon my ignorableness

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Re: I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

Postby Christine Tham » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:04 am

colafreak wrote:
Chains and cassettes are not branded 105 or Ultegra, they are branded "Hyper Glide" and then the model number.

I recently pulled apart the rear wheel of an "Ultegra" specced bike and it had the same hyperglide model number as my 105 equipped bike.
Uhmm, not according to techdocs.shimano.com.

Ultegra and 105 parts have different model numbers, and there's even a chart that shows you which model numbers correspond to which series.

Maybe your "Ultegra" bike had 105 cassette or vice versa (I notice a lot of manufacturers do that, substitute slightly inferior parts where the brand name is not visible).
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Re: I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

Postby twizzle » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:46 am

colafreak wrote: If someone wants to sell you an "ultegra" chain, you're being ripped off.
Maybe for nine speed, but ten speed they all have different part numbers and wording on the chain links. The main difference in the 'cooking' versions is the plating used. The 7900 (Dura-Ace) chains are quite different with hollow pins and cut-outs in the side plates. As for cassettes - Ultegra have alloy spacers between the cogs instead of the plastic ones used for 105.
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Re: I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

Postby waynohh » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:19 am

I'd stick to ultegra cassettes, but get KMC chains with a reusable quick link instead of the nightmare that is previous shimano chains. If you get 3000 from a chain and 6000 from a cassette then swap the chains every 1000km, so both chains and the cassette wear evenly. Shimano chains are made by KMC btw.

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Re: I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

Postby Thoglette » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:49 pm

colafreak wrote:I recently pulled apart the rear wheel of an "Ultegra" specced bike and it had the same hyperglide model number as my 105 equipped bike.

Unfortunately I can't remember the model number (6600, maybe?).
If it was "6600" it was an Ultegra cassette - 105s should be 5500 (or some other four digit number starting with a 5). Durace starts with a 7
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amt
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Re: I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

Postby amt » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:23 pm

Thanks guys. I've just clocked over 4000km and my chain and cassette show minimal signs of wear. Looks like many members perhas don't regularly maintain their chain and cassette. I do a quick clean once a week and a thorough clean every month.

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Re: I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

Postby petal665 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:50 pm

I ride 10 speed Ultegra cassettes and dura-ace chains on all my bikes, even the race only bike. It used to be on PBK that the Dura-ace chains were only $5 more expensive than Ultegra so I just went with them. I have recently bought a bunch of 7801 chains for the same price that PBK charge for a 105 so I'll stick with them as well.

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Re: I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

Postby m@ » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:28 pm

amt wrote:Thanks guys. I've just clocked over 4000km and my chain and cassette show minimal signs of wear. Looks like many members perhas don't regularly maintain their chain and cassette. I do a quick clean once a week and a thorough clean every month.
Why d'ya say that? I mean, you're probably right - we get all sorts here after all ;) - but appropriate maintenance and expected chain/cassette life really depends on usage - someone who rides 1000Km per week in all weather conditions will need to clean and lube far more frequently than someone who rides a few hundred Km and doesn't ride in the wet - and will still get fewer Km out of their chains and cassettes.
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Re: I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

Postby casual_cyclist » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:38 pm

m@ wrote:
amt wrote:Thanks guys. I've just clocked over 4000km and my chain and cassette show minimal signs of wear. Looks like many members perhas don't regularly maintain their chain and cassette. I do a quick clean once a week and a thorough clean every month.
Why d'ya say that?
Because it's true? On one bike I have never cleaned the chain. On my main bike I have cleaned it twice :oops:

I have ordered a new chain and cassette promise to maintain them :mrgreen:
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Re: I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

Postby amt » Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:35 pm

m@ wrote:
amt wrote:Thanks guys. I've just clocked over 4000km and my chain and cassette show minimal signs of wear. Looks like many members perhas don't regularly maintain their chain and cassette. I do a quick clean once a week and a thorough clean every month.
Why d'ya say that? I mean, you're probably right - we get all sorts here after all ;) - but appropriate maintenance and expected chain/cassette life really depends on usage - someone who rides 1000Km per week in all weather conditions will need to clean and lube far more frequently than someone who rides a few hundred Km and doesn't ride in the wet - and will still get fewer Km out of their chains and cassettes.
I concur, that's why I pay even more attention to cleaning after a wet ride. I commented how I see people here replacing parts on a regular basis and I think If people paid more attention to maintenance then you would save money. Part of the reason for the original post was to see what people thought about life of these parts and why I qualified the question with regard to my useage.

On a side note I was talking to a riding buddy who just had a major service on his bike, this was carried out by a reputable bike shop in Adelaide and the mechanic didn't replace the chain or the cassette. Now this bike has not had a new chain or cassette for almost 3 years so he would have travelled many thousands of km's. I did ask my friend to call the mechanic and ask him about those particular parts. The funny thing about all this is that he thinks I'm maticulous with my bike as he doesn't do any maintenance what so ever. :shock:

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Re: I'm thinking of downgrading some parts from Ultegra to 105?

Postby petal665 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:08 pm

I got 20,000km's from a 9 speed Ultegra chain and cassette. It also f*cked the chain rings. I probably could get the same distance out of a 10 speed cassette but I change the chain when my measurey thing tells me to. I fully clean my bike (degrease) once a week and mostly ride another bike in the rain.

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